Almasi

I have followed the threads on South Africa for some time and there are generally 2 recurring themes.

The 1st..its a great country that has undergone some difficult times and is now on the up with beautiful scenery and business opportunity (Gandalf33 - previously anyway with some change of heart for applicable reasons).

The 2nd.....things are getting worse and we can't wait to get out/ are glad we left primarily due to crime, unemployment due to Affirmative Action or otherwise etc.

I am interested as to what definitive steps/options (say a max of 4 in the interest of conciseness) those in the 2nd group believe the country should take to address said concerns given that not everyone can emigrate from South Africa nor can things go back to how they used to be politically...Campbell, The Druid, Izibear, G'day are you there?

TouristTrap

Number 1 without a doubt : Crime

Since I estimate that 99 percent of the folk who left permanently, left due to the crime situation, I'd say address that first.

Campbells

Hey that's my name:

Lets get real here as I believe in reality and saying it as it is. THe tree huggers and rights for criminals folk are the ones that f#@k up good countries.

Bottom line for me:
When the dept President of a country STEALS from the children fund & gets away with (never mind the moral issue)it as he is the government. THat for me my friend is the act of individuals ( I won't refer to as people) who ARE going to sink that country.

It's all about ATTITUDE & the SA Gov don't care about their people unless it is increasing their own personal luxury or bank balance .

If anyone would care to prove me wrong on that FACT go right ahead.

Have a good day

Campbell

TouristTrap

You hit it on the nail. Theoretically, one would start with the crime, however, the country is currently being run by outright criminals!

There is only ONE politician in S.A. who could possibly sort the mess out. But pigs will fly before he's elected to office of president.

The course that S.A. is currently on, is the exact same one that every country to its north has embarked on...unfortunate for the people of S.A.

It is like watching the Titanic sink. One can stand from afar and save the folk on the lifeboats, but is powerless to stop the actual sinking.

G'Day

Sorry, I've been away elsewhere for a while :-)

What would save SA?

1. Fire the whole damn government & re-educate EVERYONE with regards to their right AND RESPONSIBILITIES before having another election.

2. Build massive prisons, bring back the death penalty for murderers & rapists - forget about the human right of criminals and let's start remembering the human right of Joe-Blo on the street who pays the taxes that keep the economy floating. Remember to be REAL NICE to the people who pay for everything.

3. Employ people on the basis of their skills, pay them decently for those skills no matter who or what they are. Pay tradespeople ESPECIALLY well as they're the backbone of any nation. No more black figureheads earning big money just because they are black - reverse racism won't fix the problem, why study if you are, once again, guaranteed a job on the basis of your skin colour?

4. Send illegal immigrants back & keep them out. You can't have a bleeding heart & save the world when your own ship is sinking.

5. Get politics out of education & sport. Don't pass anyone who doesn't make the grade just because they were "disadvantaged" there are many "disadvantaged" people working their behinds off to do well & get good grades & make it to Uni so that they can ------LEAVE THE COUNTRY! Because no-one has time or patience with a lazy-ass who wants everything handed to him/her on a platter - not when you're the one paying the taxes to keep him/her on the gravy train.

bruce67

The only thing that would start the ball rolling is if all south africans voted for a political party in and out by it's record and not on the basis of colour.
IF the ANC was doing a great job, vote for them but the fact they can rely on the majority of the black vote regardless means they effectivley are accountable to no one. Very similar to the state of Zimbabwe and also South Africa in the early days except of course the white government was safe because the rest didn't have the vote!

bruce.

Campbells

One of my favourites is the slogan used by SA:

“South Africa, a country alive with possibilities”, yes, well no fine. It all depends how you read that & how much you value you put on staying alive.

Not being a pessimist at all by have you noticed how many times Zimbabwe is referred to when discussing South Africa.

Perhaps we could start a post & ask folk how to fix Zims and use that as a template for SA?

Sorry folks lets change the slogan as I personally find it an insult to intelligence!

“South Africa, a country with a need to get real”.

Sorry folks but I am tired of that dictatorship gov in SA as they are too like the rest of Africa and that is why I left what I considered my home in SA. Now happy to be in a first world country. My only regret is why I didn’t do this sooner. Another slogan.

“Earth, a planet full of destinations and choices, not just South Africa.”

I rest my case.

Have a good day

Campbell

Sydima

South Africa is a country in Africa and should be run by Africans, in particular black South Africans. Just as Zimbabwe is run by Mugabe. Every country in the world is affected by crime etc. It depends on how the governments in power decide to correct these problems.

SA is not sinking, its sad when white SA's and everybody else looses their grip on what their forefathers took from the black people back in the day and start complaining about the actions of the government. There needs to be equal distribution of wealth and l feel the people who say SA is sinking are those who have had someting taken away from them, be it land or jobs.

Let SA and Zim be, they represent Africa in their own way.

Pablo

I assume when you say "should be run by Africans" you mean blacks? How black does black have to be to qualify? Very black? Slightly black? Chocolate colour? Olive skinned colour? Do you think, perhaps, that there should be some sort of test to make sure you're black enough before you can participate in government in South Africa?

Would you also say, "England is a country in Europe and therefore should be run by whites"? That seems to be the logic of your argument.

Who gets to run north America, or Australia, or New Zealand? What happens in Africa if one tribe was there before another tribe came, when both tribes are black?

On what do you base your claim that SA is not sinking? Do you think Zimbabwe too is not sinking? Or do you think you need to be black in order to have a view?

Pablo

Sydima

Countries like England, Australia or New Zealand, will never have black leaders. My logic is these countries like Zim and SA need solutions from the legitimate owners of the land. Many people call themselves black British or African American but in reality that is where it stops, will there be a day when they are elected to the highest office in either countrieis l don't think so.

I don't think u have to be black to have a view, but l am tired of people complaining about Affirmative action, it needs to be done to correct the mistakes created by apartheid and colonialism.

Pablo

Your view is typical of trendy-left Guardian-reader racism. How do you think you establish what you call "legitimate owners" of the land? By the colour of the person's skin? Take what's happening in Zimbabwe. In many cases the farmers who are being dispossessed of their land bought it *after* Zimbabwean independence in 1980. They are the legitimate owners of their farms. Their only crime. They are not black-skinned.

How do you establish who are the legitimate owners of England? Do you have some formula, other than skin colour?

You are tired of people complaining about affirmative action. The objection is that it is unjust and racist. When will it be ended, do you suppose? Do you really think the ANC is going to call a halt to it one day? No way. It is one big corrupt gravy-train.

Do you have some image of how SA will look when the "mistakes of apartheid and colonialism" have been corrected?

Which bit of the colonial legacy do you object to? The rule of law? The hospitals and universities? The first-class infrastructure? The civil service? The separation of powers? Reading? Writing? Literacy? Schools? Will it only be when all these "mistakes" have been removed that you will be content?

As Archbishop Tutu said, "The ANC stopped the gravy-train just long enough to get on."


P

Sydima

Man, l need see the title deeds for myself. There were loads of farmers leaving when the news came that Mugabe had won the election in 1980, guess where their first stop was - SA. Where apartheid seemed to be their saviour. Just because people take back what is theirs, does not mean the so called owners they took it from can cry foul and forget the deeds of their ancestors.

So the fruits of colonialism is a hospital, an education etc, so what? It goes deeper than that if the whites in charge had treated blacks and mixed raced people equally, would there be a need for Affirmative action now? l don't think so. The gravy train started a long long long time ago and its going to run for a very long time, the fortunate thing its somebody elses turn.

Campbells

Hey,

two things:.


1. You sure you not Stuart James with 'nother name?

2. Very interesting term "turn" as life does exactly that, careful for the next cycle my friend as most African countries still get BIG hand-outs from what you term, colonials. It just needs for to many blacks to spread their HATRED of whites too far & you will bite the hand.

Just as a matter of interest what's your take on the crime in SA ?

My take on empowerment = educating the children they are the future

Where you based mate?

Cheers

Campbell

Campbells

[QUOTE=Sydima
Let SA and Zim be, they represent Africa in their own way.[/QUOTE]


You said it pal,

THat is the whole problem that you & folk like you want to do how you feel it should be done regarless of what the people think. Get real, take a look at the responses to your thread & what is the common response & then you reply like this.

Typical, you only hear what you want to and have blinkered RACIAL vision. You my freind are continuing the RACIAL cycle. Carry on that's really going to fix things.

Take a pill & get over it all try looking forward for a change.

Have a rainbow day

Campbell

Campbells

Duh,
Who is the legit owners of England now? Which black person you want in there pal? What claim the blacks have to Aus & NZ ??

What you smokin ?