Are we completely crazy?
 

Hi guys, I’ve posted a couple of times before, but don’t think I’ve introduced myself properly. I’m Mags and my hubby and I are South African born. We have lived in the UK from 2001 – 2007 and obtained British citizenship. We have a 6 year old daughter who was born in England. We returned to SA in 2007 to start up our own little computer training business and to be closer to family and our aging parents. It was actually my dad’s death in 2006 that prompted our move – it was a huge shock to the system not to have been able to be with our family then.

I refused to go back to Gauteng where most of our family is living, and we ended up in George. I love living here, it’s a fantastic town, awesome natural scenery, so much to do. Unfortunately the local economy sucks, so our business is barely keeping head above water. We’ve had so many dreams about making a real difference in people’s lives, but with BEE etc it is just impossible for us to get any local government contracts, so even though we are the only SETA accredited training centre of our kind in the local area, contracts go to dodgy township training centres.

I’ve always been the eternal optimist about South Africa, always believing that things will work out in the end. With all that’s been happening in the country over the last couple of years I became completely disillusioned. I feel depressed and hopeless – everything that’s happening here is starting to overwhelm me. Even though we live in an idyllic cocoon (very little crime), it feels like everything around us is coming apart. The lawlessness on the roads, the corruption that has infiltrated every fibre of society, the water crises, the roads that are falling apart, the poverty, the absence of accountability, the arrogance in governments, everything. :thumbdown: I’m worrying about the new health system and the effect it would have on private medical schemes. Who would be able to afford this if the government withdraws its subsidies? What opportunities will my child have once she’s grown up?

We’ve been contemplating going back to the UK now for the past year. There are several reasons for this, but the main one is that we simply miss England too much. Secondly, we don’t see a long term future for ourselves in SA. I feel especially guilty towards our daughter for bringing her back here – I think it was the wrong decision. We love having our family closer, spending Christmases and holidays together, but in the end we are all living our own lives.

We are acutely aware of the situation in the UK. Our friends back in the UK are very negative, a number of them have lost their jobs. This is just the most difficult decision we have ever had to make. We don’t want to wait too long, because we’re not getting any younger (both early 40’s) and the younger our daughter is the better she should be able to adjust. We do have some savings that is actually intended for a deposit to a house. But if we don’t find work we would have to live off this. :(

Are we completely mad? :confused: :confused: Should we forget about the UK and just try to maAke it work here? I’m really trying to see the bigger picture here, beyond the next couple of difficult years we might face in England and trying to picture us growing old here vs growing old in England. Also, my daughter is a British Citizen, she might end up returning to the UK anyway once she’s grown up. I should also mention that we both love England, and if the job situation in the UK had been better than it currently is, we would probably have left ages ago.

Re: Are we completely crazy?
 

Sadly your experience is typical of the slow realisation that takes place after the initial rose-tinted euphoria wears off.

I don't mean that unpleasantly. You have seen how angry people become when one tries to warn them of this.

The trouble with emigration is that it changes you. Emigrants from SA find they miss SA, but what they miss increasingly becomes a romanticized memory in their mind -- and they compare that romanticized memory with the reality of day-to-day frustrations in their new home.

Thus they do not compare like with like.

One does not need to be a seer or a political philosopher to see the way things are going in SA. For example, on the simplest level, one just needs to look at the effects on *any* country of continual one-party government.

There is no future there, as you say.

As Daxk points out, and as we can all observe, the trend, politically, is towards populist demagogues interested only in power and self-enrichment. And demagogues pretend that there are magic instant solutions to intractable problems, and they use minorities as scapegoats.

Go figure.

Re: Are we completely crazy?
 

Yes, I agree with you Pablo. We're leaving behind our rose tinted glasses this time round. It's just a very worrying time to return to the UK. Talk about bad timing!

Re: Are we completely crazy?
 

Obviously it depends on your job and skillset, but don't be put off coming to UK for employment reasons. Its naturally a huge worry to find a job, so I understand yoru concerns.
But to be honest Mags, I don't think the UK job market is as bad as you imagine, especially in London. There are plenty of jobs on the market and the continual turnover of staff and high attrition rates mean that roles are continually available. Yes, it may have slowed down, but there is definite opportunities. The cutting of public sector jobs may increase competition in certain job fields, but its nothing like trying to get jobs in other parts of the world.
I'm thinking of heading to SA, so I have nothing to lose/gain from providing some advice as I see it.

Re: Are we completely crazy?
 

Agreed. In the UK there is unemployment combined with a skills shortage. Anyone half good can make it, and doesn't have to jump through endless race-hoops either.

Re: Are we completely crazy?
 

I was going to say the same thing Pablo. Mags, if you get that strong feeling that you need to make the change before change forces you to do so, it should be heeded. The UK is a known entity to you and if you have the motivation to push through the hards times to make things work, your odds of success are distinctly better back in Britain.

Re: Are we completely crazy?
 

We had a similar quandry about 2 years ago. I was offered comparable jobs in the UK, USA and RSA on the same day and OH and I couldn't decide what to do.

We ended up spending a weekend away - and wrote a "happy list". Things that make us happy - and tried to work out where those things could be attained. RSA won for us, and we have no regrets - turned out to be a great decision but I understand not everyone would reach the same conclusion. It was a useful process and worked for us, but you have to be pragmatic and consider safety, standard of living, family and friends etc...

Good luck.

Re: Are we completely crazy?
 

That reminds me of the man who has fallen off a skyscraper. Half way down he thinks, "Ah well, so far so good."

But I'm teasing you.

I think for a lot of people I chat to, questions of security - personal and financial - the prospect of stability, being with family (both parents and children) count for more and more as they get older.

I think emigrants to SA have a hard time when their children leave SA or their parents (typically not in SA) fall ill or die.

Emigration is never easy. In the past, you didn't have the choice of "going home". You had to make a go of it for better or worse, and so that's what you did.

Also, I think popular TV does a massive amount of harm. Because of the nature of these programmes, they don't cover the difficult side. So people are duped into thinking it's all easy.

Re: Are we completely crazy?
 

Mags--I have read your comments with interest.I lived in JHB from 1981-1987 and returned to UK for 12 months and then arrived in Canada[Ontario] set up my own business[very easy] and life has been really good .Yes I also desperatley wanted to return to SA but knew it would take at least 6 months to find a job!---You need to be self reliant and not depend on anyone and from what I read on his website the odds are now stacked against you in SA.I really beleive the UK has seen its best days and the world is changing,Canada is short of all kinds of skills from IT to construction to baking but the key is to arrive here with just enough to set yourself up and rent a place for at least a year [$1000 p/month] Dont ask too many questions of Govt officials just do your own thing--Jimmy8

Re: Are we completely crazy?
 

hehe love the skyscraper analogy ... just like marriage ! :rofl: jimmy8: we are finalising FSW's for Toronto, so keen to hear more from you about what you like about toronto versus uk/sa. what line of work are you in IT?

Re: Are we completely crazy?
 

Thank you so much to everyone who took the time to reply. Certainly gave us lots to think about! :thumbup:

Re: Are we completely crazy?
 

Been here 4 years. Wife is South African and we've had it. Rising costs, deteriorating infrastructure, complete incompetence from govt depts/police, nothing in return for what you pay in tax, absolutely no future here for kids. Looking at move to Dubai-it cant we worse.

Re: Are we completely crazy?
 

I've lived in both countries. All I can say is best of luck!

Re: Are we completely crazy?
 

Ah well. I grew up in the UK, lived in Hong Kong and moved to SA in 1980. My wife returned to the UK in 2006, and persuaded me to come back in 2008. Big mistake. I spent the first six months of 2009 in SA again, and have just come back from a business trip there.

I may be in a minority of one, but I dislike living here and feel far more at home in SA, warts and all. I'm going back once I sort out a few things.

Re: Are we completely crazy?
 

I hope your not looking at life in SA through rose coloured glasses!--There are plenty of other places to live without always having to look over your shoulder or worrying if your house has been broken into today!.Longterm you may be sorry,you have to think of things lie health care as you age,pensions[is there a state pension in SA?] and overwhelmingly personal security