'Sunset curfew' in suburbs
Jul 2nd 2007, 7:39 am
#1
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'Sunset curfew' in suburbs
http://www.news24.com/News24/South_A...139615,00.html
Puts paid to the theory that crime is coming down, doesn't it?
Johannesburg - Prepare yourselves for a shock when police release their annual crime statistics later this week.
That's the warning from experts Johan Burger and Hennie van Rooyen.
Burger, a senior researcher at the Institute for Security Studies, says indications are that there has been a "drastic" increase in the number of robberies at private homes.
There were 40 house robberies within two weeks in Witbank recently.
Senior police sources say there has been an increase of up to 50% in the number of house robberies in some places. This includes Nelspruit and Secunda.
Rapport says in some towns in KwaZulu-Natal house robberies have doubled.
Van Rooyen, a legal practitioner who trains detectives in South Africa and abroad, has labelled it a crisis, because people are no longer safe in their homes - which already resemble prisons.
"Sundown is curfew time for law-abiding citizens. You remain indoors. Even this is no longer safe," Van Rooyen said.
Percentages can be misleading though, says deputy National Police Commissioner André Pruis.
"It does not necessarily indicate a crisis if there has been 100% increase in one crime category
That's the warning from experts Johan Burger and Hennie van Rooyen.
Burger, a senior researcher at the Institute for Security Studies, says indications are that there has been a "drastic" increase in the number of robberies at private homes.
There were 40 house robberies within two weeks in Witbank recently.
Senior police sources say there has been an increase of up to 50% in the number of house robberies in some places. This includes Nelspruit and Secunda.
Rapport says in some towns in KwaZulu-Natal house robberies have doubled.
Van Rooyen, a legal practitioner who trains detectives in South Africa and abroad, has labelled it a crisis, because people are no longer safe in their homes - which already resemble prisons.
"Sundown is curfew time for law-abiding citizens. You remain indoors. Even this is no longer safe," Van Rooyen said.
Percentages can be misleading though, says deputy National Police Commissioner André Pruis.
"It does not necessarily indicate a crisis if there has been 100% increase in one crime category
Jul 3rd 2007, 12:46 pm
#2
Nuts and Bolts
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Re: 'Sunset curfew' in suburbs
Yup,yup! Houston, we have a problem....http://www.int.iol.co.za/index.php?s...1554823C968600 
Then it is broken down into categories. Murder rates are up, but attempted murder rates are down! So, in essence a higher success rate at knocking off the victim has been achieved. Aggravated robbery increased whilst common robbery decreased. I gather it is more than your worldly goods they're after.
http://www.int.iol.co.za/index.php?s...2146621C249020 Those of us that know how armed response companies work will tell you that these crime rates are under reported anyway, as much of the work the police departments are supposed to be doing is left to the private sector to cope with. Let's just say that the police department's record keeping is not one of their strengths.
Then it is broken down into categories. Murder rates are up, but attempted murder rates are down! So, in essence a higher success rate at knocking off the victim has been achieved. Aggravated robbery increased whilst common robbery decreased. I gather it is more than your worldly goods they're after.
http://www.int.iol.co.za/index.php?s...2146621C249020 Those of us that know how armed response companies work will tell you that these crime rates are under reported anyway, as much of the work the police departments are supposed to be doing is left to the private sector to cope with. Let's just say that the police department's record keeping is not one of their strengths.
Last edited by Tegwyn; Jul 3rd 2007 at 12:48 pm.
Jul 3rd 2007, 2:14 pm
#3
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Re: 'Sunset curfew' in suburbs
They average that about 32% of crimes go unreported. It's probably higher. Here's food for thought eh. 
100, 000 people murdered, 270,000 raped and 1.3 million seriously assaulted, in the last five years.
More than a million robberies were committed and nearly 450 000 cars stolen. Two of those belonging to family members. http://www.mg.co.za/articlePage.aspx...ews__national/ All mere statistics until it happens to you or yours.
100, 000 people murdered, 270,000 raped and 1.3 million seriously assaulted, in the last five years. More than a million robberies were committed and nearly 450 000 cars stolen. Two of those belonging to family members. http://www.mg.co.za/articlePage.aspx...ews__national/ All mere statistics until it happens to you or yours.
Jul 4th 2007, 9:20 am
#4
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Re: 'Sunset curfew' in suburbs
They average that about 32% of crimes go unreported. It's probably higher. Here's food for thought eh. 100, 000 people murdered, 270,000 raped and 1.3 million seriously assaulted, in the last five years.
More than a million robberies were committed and nearly 450 000 cars stolen. Two of those belonging to family members. http://www.mg.co.za/articlePage.aspx...ews__national/ All mere statistics until it happens to you or yours.
100, 000 people murdered, 270,000 raped and 1.3 million seriously assaulted, in the last five years. More than a million robberies were committed and nearly 450 000 cars stolen. Two of those belonging to family members. http://www.mg.co.za/articlePage.aspx...ews__national/ All mere statistics until it happens to you or yours.
Of my family here, there has been one break-in and burglary in the last 12 months. Of my family back in the UK, there has been the same.
While the statistics aren't good, I still think that there's really no need for the overactive paranoia that some people seem to have.
Oh - and I regularly walk in my suburb after dark (and no, I don't have a big dog with me).
Jul 4th 2007, 9:42 am
#5
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Re: 'Sunset curfew' in suburbs
Yes 6000, I used to do the same.
They just were'nt being careful enough.
If you have enough security and be aware of whats going on around you etc, knew my neighbours, Blockwatch, CPF etc ,it was just plain carelessness and people did'nt want to spend the money ,
Then one night at 9 pm in my driveway ,the next few hours in my house,5 year old being taught forever that if she is'nt good her mommy and daddy will die..
But what the hell,happens to everyone, we were lucky, all alive, no one raped etc, whats the fuss.
besides they caught them , did'nt they.
two weeks later, Sunday morning,in my driveway, they were there, 3 of them, hooting and waving, just to let me know they knew where I lived in case I was thinking of testifying.
Their bail was R100 each.
Nedbank ad said it well... " makes you think, does'nt it"
I choose to live somewhere wetter, colder and where the chances of harm befalling my wife and daughter are a lot less.
Enjoy your life ,may it be safe forever ,mine now is.
They just were'nt being careful enough.
If you have enough security and be aware of whats going on around you etc, knew my neighbours, Blockwatch, CPF etc ,it was just plain carelessness and people did'nt want to spend the money ,
Then one night at 9 pm in my driveway ,the next few hours in my house,5 year old being taught forever that if she is'nt good her mommy and daddy will die..
But what the hell,happens to everyone, we were lucky, all alive, no one raped etc, whats the fuss.
besides they caught them , did'nt they.
two weeks later, Sunday morning,in my driveway, they were there, 3 of them, hooting and waving, just to let me know they knew where I lived in case I was thinking of testifying.
Their bail was R100 each.
Nedbank ad said it well... " makes you think, does'nt it"
I choose to live somewhere wetter, colder and where the chances of harm befalling my wife and daughter are a lot less.
Enjoy your life ,may it be safe forever ,mine now is.
Jul 4th 2007, 9:51 am
#6
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Re: 'Sunset curfew' in suburbs
But my argument is not with people like you, my argument is with people saying that crime is ubiquitous, directly affecting anyone and everyone in South Africa. That's absolutely not true.
There is this perception being touted on here that if you live in this country or visit it as a tourist, you will be raped or killed. It's simply not the case.
Closer analysis of the recently released crime stats will show you that crime - especially violent crime - is highly localised. Avoid those areas, as you would with any dodgy areas anywhere in the world and suddenly, the stats look a lot more appealing.
Last edited by 6000; Jul 4th 2007 at 9:55 am.
Jul 4th 2007, 9:55 am
#7
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Re: 'Sunset curfew' in suburbs
As is your choice. Every country has pros and cons, be it weather, safety, money, whatever.
But my argument is not with people like you, my argument is with people saying that crime is ubiquitous, directly affecting anyone and everyone in South Africa. That's absolutely not true.
There is this perception being touted on here that if you live in this country or visit it as a tourist, you will be raped or killed. It's simply not the case.
Closer analysis of the recently released crime stats will show you that crime - especially violent crime - is highly localised.
But my argument is not with people like you, my argument is with people saying that crime is ubiquitous, directly affecting anyone and everyone in South Africa. That's absolutely not true.
There is this perception being touted on here that if you live in this country or visit it as a tourist, you will be raped or killed. It's simply not the case.
Closer analysis of the recently released crime stats will show you that crime - especially violent crime - is highly localised.
We are not saying that everyone will be attacked. But the dangers, especially for First World tourists who are not used to dealing with the type of alertness you need, is real. It can strike from the lowliest shack in the Cape to a five star hotel's dining room. Most First World countries have well-known no-go areas. Unfortunately, South Africa is one entire no-go area. You are at risk wherever you are.
Jul 4th 2007, 10:02 am
#8
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Re: 'Sunset curfew' in suburbs
When I was back in the UK recently my brother reminded me of the sort of things I was saying when he visited me after I'd been here a couple of years. I sounded very much like you. I've been there, I was gung-ho, I had a peppy attitude and a lot of trust that things would come right.
But now, ten years later, the statistics are the same, the excuses are the same, the promises of action sound more hollow than ever, and I find people of all races are much more despondent and despairing of the future than they were when I arrived. Don't worry, the 'overactive paranoia' will catch up with you if you've got the nerve to stick it out that long!
Jul 4th 2007, 10:13 am
#9
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Re: 'Sunset curfew' in suburbs
[F is your choice. Every country has pros and cons, be it weather, safety, money, whatever.[/FONT]
[F my argument is not with people like you, my argument is with people saying that crime is ubiquitous, directly affecting anyone and everyone in South Africa. That's absolutely not true. [/FONT]
[F is this perception being touted on here that if you live in this country or visit it as a tourist, you will be raped or killed. It's simply not the case. [/FONT]
[F analysis of the recently released crime stats will show you that crime - especially violent crime - is highly localised. Avoid those areas, as you would with any dodgy areas anywhere in the world and suddenly, the stats look a lot more appealing.[/FONT]
[F my argument is not with people like you, my argument is with people saying that crime is ubiquitous, directly affecting anyone and everyone in South Africa. That's absolutely not true. [/FONT]
[F is this perception being touted on here that if you live in this country or visit it as a tourist, you will be raped or killed. It's simply not the case. [/FONT]
[F analysis of the recently released crime stats will show you that crime - especially violent crime - is highly localised. Avoid those areas, as you would with any dodgy areas anywhere in the world and suddenly, the stats look a lot more appealing.[/FONT]
Crime, or the fear of crime IS directly affecting anyone and everyone in SA ,wether it is the gardener ,the factory worker and it's affecting the poor working stiffs even more.
However, the skills who are leaving because of crime are not living in or visiting your dodgy area's, and a closer analysis of the stats says that the 6% increase in hi-jackings and the 25% increase in Home invasions/robberies are happening in the middle income and up suburbs.
More than likely, they're even higher in the Guguletu's,Soweto's and alexandria's but they dont get reported, I quote" The Police never came before, why should they come now?"
A tourist arriving ,uninformed ,unwarned, is like a chicken looking for a lunch with Col Saunders,and if they do so, their choice.
Besides, do you think Uncle Charles's recent about face regarding crime
was because he disagreed with Thabo saying crime is merely a white perception?
Enjoy CT, it is a beautiful place.
Jul 4th 2007, 10:39 am
#10
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Re: 'Sunset curfew' in suburbs
I have the WC stats in front of me here.
60 murders per 100,000 population last year.
BUT - take out just one policing zone (Nyanga) and that drops to 45/100,000. Take out Gugs and it drops to 29/100,000.
And that's just two areas.
Start looking at the areas with the lower rates (like Wynberg/Southern subs/CBD) - where the tourists are more likely to be and the murder rate is comparable to that in - *gasp* - the UK!
We are not saying that everyone will be attacked. But the dangers, especially for First World tourists who are not used to dealing with the type of alertness you need, is real. It can strike from the lowliest shack in the Cape to a five star hotel's dining room. Most First World countries have well-known no-go areas. Unfortunately, South Africa is one entire no-go area. You are at risk wherever you are.
Now - I'm off to Khayelitsha (yes, seriously) but I fully intend to be back in one piece a little later on.
Jul 4th 2007, 10:42 am
#11
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Re: 'Sunset curfew' in suburbs
But quite apart from that, are you saying that if you exclude the non-white areas of Cape Town, then crime is not a problem?
Pablo
Jul 4th 2007, 10:56 am
#12
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Re: 'Sunset curfew' in suburbs
The murder rate for central Cape Town is comparable with that of Helsinki, Lisbon and Amsterdam. It is less than a quarter of that in Washington DC, it is lower than that of New York, Chicago, Dallas, LA.
But I don't see these same stories all over those cities forums on this site.
Why is that?
Jul 4th 2007, 11:05 am
#13
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Re: 'Sunset curfew' in suburbs
No Pablo. I didn't say that and I didn't divide areas on basis of race, merely on the numbers in front of me here and the places where tourists are more likely to be.
The murder rate for central Cape Town is comparable with that of Helsinki, Lisbon and Amsterdam. It is less than a quarter of that in Washington DC, it is lower than that of New York, Chicago, Dallas, LA.
But I don't see these same stories all over those cities forums on this site.
Why is that?
The murder rate for central Cape Town is comparable with that of Helsinki, Lisbon and Amsterdam. It is less than a quarter of that in Washington DC, it is lower than that of New York, Chicago, Dallas, LA.
But I don't see these same stories all over those cities forums on this site.
Why is that?
Isn't it somewhat artificial to compare "central Cape Town" with "New York"?
Pablo
Jul 4th 2007, 11:12 am
#14
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Re: 'Sunset curfew' in suburbs
http://www.iol.co.za/index.php?set_i...0247113C902261
"Norwich Union, an insurance company in the United Kingdom, undertook a survey based on their clients' travel insurance claims and found South Africa to be at the top of the list of countries for serious crime.
"The survey said travellers to South Africa were the most likely to suffer violent robberies or lose their belongings in transit. South Africa has been earmarked as the country where tourists' luggage goes missing most often and where the most crimes take place. South Africa was also high on the list for food poisoning and road accidents."
Food poisoning? I have to admit that one surprises me.
"The survey said travellers to South Africa were the most likely to suffer violent robberies or lose their belongings in transit. South Africa has been earmarked as the country where tourists' luggage goes missing most often and where the most crimes take place. South Africa was also high on the list for food poisoning and road accidents."
Jul 4th 2007, 11:33 am
#15
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Re: 'Sunset curfew' in suburbs
But the fact that you drop this little item in seems to imply that those of us concerned about crime would shriek with horror at the very idea of going into a township or squatter area. Not necessarily so. This is one country, how can the crime in Nyanga not be something that someone in the Southern Suburbs should be concerned about?
Last edited by whalewatcher; Jul 4th 2007 at 11:41 am.
