jdr

Did you not read my post ?

You haven`t.



Nice to see you return, now you have a bit of backup.
Look up the definition of trolling, and read the rules , maybe some of them will clarify the situation.

As I said it was just a few questions about why are all the threads the same doom and gloom, and I am getting the same grief as a newbie gets and just goes to prove why I asked one of my questions.

kiwibok

Well for those of you that think New Zealand is a safe haven, think again. Just 2 weeks ago, a guy was stabbed to death here while waiting for a taxi. The Pack n Save here was robbed. Both of these events occurred not far from where we live, and we live in a pretty descent area. Sure its safe, and we don't bother to lock our doors sometimes etc, but those days it seems are coming to an end. :curse:

Things however are not out of control but NZ is getting worse too and i sometimes catch myself wondering which country will be better off in 30 years time.

NZ is suffering from severe skill shortages and they aggressively recruiting from all over the world, many new immigrants are coming from India etc.. Hell, one of the guys I now work with is a black Zimbabwean, educated but his whole family is moving across shortly too. Many of the kiwis are moving to Australia, myself probably included.

Campbells

All the threads are doom & gloom as that is what is happening in SA. Perhaps if you started a Zimbabwe section you would expect positive threads??

I keep saying, why don't folk find positive things to offer about SA rather than babies being slaughtered, cut up for body parts, raped for so-called AIDS cures and the list goes on & on.

Excuse me if I show some emotion about these topics but you quite blatantly have no idea about the country and want to tell me how it is whilst bouncing your weight around because you are a moderator.

Please …………….

Pablo

The above is a typical example of the sneering, sarcastic tone you have adopted since you appeared here. It is a bit late now to start pretending that you were just an innocent poster enquiring after a few simple questions. It won't wash.

Now if, as I suspect, you have merely popped up here to waste a bit of time and cause trouble then my answers will be glibly dismissed, but I'll make one more try nevertheless.

First, it is a self-serving lie that new posters are harshly driven away by some sort of pack of agressive posters. Those with genuine enquiries about, e.g., emigration, immigration, holiday arrangements, have always been helped, and in general posters have been urged to research for themselves and not merely take the word of people here. And, in those cases, I and many others have gone to the trouble of posting links, suggesting places to look for more info, and advised posters were to seek answers to their questions.

The only reason our recent poster from White River drew a sharp response from some posters here is that it is a familiar piece of propaganda that is trotted out again and again by government mouthpieces in South Africa that "crime is everywhere" and that this banal observation is treated as a justification for the complacency in the face of the truly appalling level of crime in South Africa. It is also deeply insulting to those who have had friends or relatives raped or murdered or otherwise the victims of violent crime to hear it suggested that those who take sensible precations and "act responsibly" will somehow be immune from this... especially when this is coming from a Brit who has only been in SA for a very short time, is living in a remote, rural, corner of South Africa, and is working illegally.

In general, British people in Europe have absolutely no conception of the huge array of security measures one takes when living in SA. One does anything and everything to protect oneself, one's children, one's family. Those who have left have done so only after a very great deal of soul-seaerching. To have it thrown in one's face that one just wasn't careful enough is an insult.

That aside, I did say to our recent poster in White River that I thought what he was doing was doubtless a great adventure, and though the Bush isn't my own thing, I can see how it must appeal to those who have spent their lives stuck in London commuterland. So good on him for going out there and doing it. Even if he does not stay long term then so what? Nothing wrong with having an adventure.

More generally, my own view, often stated on this list, is that people should do their best to find out for themselves, and I have tried to point them to where they can find that info.

If your curiosity is genuine (and I am sorry but I do not believe that it is... and if I am wrong then I apologise) then there are many sources where you can investigate further, challenge your opinions, and see for yourself. You can even go there yourself - indeed I urge you to do so. I have done that journey (Malaga to Madrid and then Iberia to Jo'burg) more than once.

There are massive, life/death questions for those who are in South Africa and elsewhere in southern Africa that just don't face people who have emigrated to places like France or Spain. Brits who think that emigrating to SA is just like emigrating to Spain are wrong. Often they don't like to be told that, but even our poster from White River seemed clear that this is so.

It surely goes without saying that life goes on where ever you are. You just cope. You get used to all the precautions. You shake your head when yet another friend is the victim of crime. That is how life is in SA. You get used to it. You press on. You try and look on the bright side. To throw in the towel, to sell up and walk away from the life you have spent years building up for yourself is no easy decision. "Why don't people just leave?" really is an inadequate response. It means leaving your home, your job, your friends and family. It is something people don't want to do.

Why do you think so many Jews didn't "just leave" Nazi Germany? There were plenty of "doom and gloom" mongers in the 1930s saying the writing was on the wall, and there were plenty of others dismissing their fears and telling them things would be ok.

Campbells

With regards to SA I really think the next year will see some scary times in terms of the Zuma and the whole Zulus thing starting to roll out.

Personally I reckon a no confidence vote for Mbeki in the very near future.

If they do manage to nail Zuma and put him out the way then Winnie will step in. That’s my predictions for 2008 in SA.

I also believe that the land grabs ( or whatever soft term you prefer to label them with) are going to speed up, this will push buttons with foreign investors and SA will push itself into a corner and start to bite back.

Yes, I too am concerned at some of the crimes happening in NZ and I have gotten into a few burning threads on the New Zealand forum saying that NZ needs to get a handle on things. I think Helen’s days are numbered and hopefully we will see change.

We will be in Scotland for most of January and that will be interesting as haven’t been since 99.

BTW which Pack N Save was robbed? Was it at gun point? Which area do you folks live in?

Cheers

Pablo

The crime in SA is a symptom, and it is a mistake to suppose that a bit of government spending on policemen is going to solve it. The ANC spent years trying to achieve their stated aim of making South Africa ungovernable. Little did they expect that they would be called on to fix the mess they created, and now they find they cannot do so.

You do not barbarize a nation and then throw a few more bobbies on the beat to restore law and order.

Furthermore, the ANC have spent a good deal of their time in government telling the poor and unemployed that all their ills are due to racism and injustice, rather than telling them that the only way out of poverty and ignorance is hard work and education. This has been coupled with a rapid de-skilling of South Africa for political reasons.

It's like knocking out all the cogs from a complex machine. You can't just throw one cog back again and expect the whole machine to work perfectly once more.

kiwibok

Hey Campbells, we down in Wellington.

It was the Pack n Save in Upper Hutt. Will try find you some links to the two stories, right now though its time for bed.

jdr

I have enclosed my first post and your answer, reread them and think about your last post quote I have also included and tell me what tone that was in.

jdr

That is why I am asking questions about the country and expect a civil answer, its not too much to ask is it ?
I have never tried to tell you how it is, only asked why everybody slags it off as I have been to a few countries and never seen any like that.
Also I am certainly not bouncing my weight around as a mod, just asking a civilized question and awaiting civilized un-aggresive answers.

Sue

His not trolling, his curiosity is genuine.

Sue

Moderators are also members and are entitled to their own opinions.

The SA forum is not a "clone" of anywhere, nor does it aim to be. All we ask is that members treat each other and their experiences with respect. I think what jdr is trying to surmise is why sometimes new members are jumped on straight away if they have a good experience of SA. It hardly makes the SA forum look welcoming and open to discussion, whether sharing good or bad experiences, does it.

Pablo

Val50 is a moderator and lived in SA. Ask her.

Pablo

Selective in order to distort as much as possible. Really, this is silly. You have nothing at all to say about the gist of my long post to you. Just more sniping.

Pablo

How can you tell?

Assuming, however, this is the case, then there are plenty of resources posted here, and elsewhere, for the curious, including the idle curious.

jdr

The only way that was selective was to show the fact that it was you with the abusive reply to my original question.
PS. did you look up what trolling means ?