Moving to Johannesburg in September
#16
Account Closed
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 8,266
Re: Moving to Johannesburg in September
Spoken like the naive European that you are. Come back six months after you've been living there and tell us how wrong we were for leaving our homeland.
I got an email this morning. My brother in law was involved in an attempted hijacking today, but thankfully they only managed to break his back window.
A few months ago, three men with guns hijacked him in the middle of a busy street in Durban, in the middle of peak hour traffic as he was on his way home, and drove him around for 4 hrs, all the time discussing what they were going to do to him and how he was going to be killed. He managed to escape when they stopped to go and get some booze.
See. THIS is the true reality about life in South Africa, and one that people live with every day. And I'm talking ALL of South Africa's people.
And by the way. Why do you assume we're white? Thousands of non-white South Africans have left and are leaving the country every day for this very reason.
I got an email this morning. My brother in law was involved in an attempted hijacking today, but thankfully they only managed to break his back window.
A few months ago, three men with guns hijacked him in the middle of a busy street in Durban, in the middle of peak hour traffic as he was on his way home, and drove him around for 4 hrs, all the time discussing what they were going to do to him and how he was going to be killed. He managed to escape when they stopped to go and get some booze.
See. THIS is the true reality about life in South Africa, and one that people live with every day. And I'm talking ALL of South Africa's people.
And by the way. Why do you assume we're white? Thousands of non-white South Africans have left and are leaving the country every day for this very reason.
#17
Re: Moving to Johannesburg in September
Originally Posted by Haruspex
Bloody hell, people- you do seem to be so negative about your homeland. Words like 'slums' and 'vagrants' last passed the lips of English people about 60 years ago. I know we have a far more developed social welfare system etc etc, but don't you think it's quite depressing how you view your homeland. Maybe if you hadn't all run away in fear, then integration might be a little more forthcoming. I know I'm gonna get ripped to shreds by what I'm saying here, but it's really depressing.
I know it doesn't compare, but there are areas of London with gun crime, car jackings and muggings that many small towners would call 'no go' areas, but if we live as prisoners of our fear, then we never live our life. Shoreditch and Hackney in the UK are very trendy areas to go out (like Melville), but also have a lot of poverty and a lot of crime. But surely it's better to patronise these areas and provide some kind of economy than to stay in sterile wealthier quarters?
And I'm sorry, but it seems like what many of you are implicitly saying is 'South Africa is terrible now they've given the blacks freedom'.
I know I'm coming from a wishy washy champagne socialist UK viewpoint here, but to see someone so hopelessly negative about their country is terrible.
Maybe when I go over I'll be prooved wrong; I'll probably be car jacked, shot, raped, burgled- who knows. But at least I'll be giving it a go and going there without prejudice and fear.
I know it doesn't compare, but there are areas of London with gun crime, car jackings and muggings that many small towners would call 'no go' areas, but if we live as prisoners of our fear, then we never live our life. Shoreditch and Hackney in the UK are very trendy areas to go out (like Melville), but also have a lot of poverty and a lot of crime. But surely it's better to patronise these areas and provide some kind of economy than to stay in sterile wealthier quarters?
And I'm sorry, but it seems like what many of you are implicitly saying is 'South Africa is terrible now they've given the blacks freedom'.
I know I'm coming from a wishy washy champagne socialist UK viewpoint here, but to see someone so hopelessly negative about their country is terrible.
Maybe when I go over I'll be prooved wrong; I'll probably be car jacked, shot, raped, burgled- who knows. But at least I'll be giving it a go and going there without prejudice and fear.
DOOS!!!!!
#18
Account Closed
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 8,266
Re: Moving to Johannesburg in September
Originally Posted by Mizz Teapot
DOOS!!!!!
#19
Re: Moving to Johannesburg in September
Originally Posted by Mizz Teapot
DOOS!!!!!
#20
Re: Moving to Johannesburg in September
Bloody hell, people- you do seem to be so negative about your homeland. Words like 'slums' and 'vagrants' last passed the lips of English people about 60 years ago
I know we have a far more developed social welfare system etc etc, but don't you think it's quite depressing how you view your homeland. Maybe if you hadn't all run away in fear, then integration might be a little more forthcoming.
I know it doesn't compare, but there are areas of London with gun crime, car jackings and muggings that many small towners would call 'no go' areas, but if we live as prisoners of our fear, then we never live our life.
But surely it's better to patronise these areas and provide some kind of economy than to stay in sterile wealthier quarters?
And I'm sorry, but it seems like what many of you are implicitly saying is 'South Africa is terrible now they've given the blacks freedom'.
I know I'm coming from a wishy washy champagne socialist UK viewpoint here, but to see someone so hopelessly negative about their country is terrible.
Maybe when I go over I'll be prooved wrong; I'll probably be car jacked, shot, raped, burgled- who knows. But at least I'll be giving it a go and going there without prejudice and fear
#21
littleflower
Joined: Jun 2006
Location: Kent
Posts: 30
Re: Moving to Johannesburg in September
Originally Posted by 1066
The majority of English people have never seen Soweto or Alexandria
Don't mistake fear for common sense ... the difference will become clear to you soon enough.
To the best of my knowledge, a quiet weekend in London would not include 30 murders and 40 rapes. These are average figures for Jo'berg/Soewto, during a 'quiet' weekend. When things really kick off, it gets much worse.
If you patronise some areas of Jo'berg, the only economy that you will enhance will be the illegal one .. you may even live to tell about it.
It is amazing how many blacks say the same thing ...
There are literally millions of Brits that think the UK sucks ... they wouldn't last 2 seconds in South Africa.
Your choice. Good luck.
Don't mistake fear for common sense ... the difference will become clear to you soon enough.
To the best of my knowledge, a quiet weekend in London would not include 30 murders and 40 rapes. These are average figures for Jo'berg/Soewto, during a 'quiet' weekend. When things really kick off, it gets much worse.
If you patronise some areas of Jo'berg, the only economy that you will enhance will be the illegal one .. you may even live to tell about it.
It is amazing how many blacks say the same thing ...
There are literally millions of Brits that think the UK sucks ... they wouldn't last 2 seconds in South Africa.
Your choice. Good luck.
This article will give you an idea of how people live day to day.
http://www.int.iol.co.za/index.php?s...4740545C160510
#22
Re: Moving to Johannesburg in September
Originally Posted by littleflower15
This article will give you an idea of how people live day to day.
http://www.int.iol.co.za/index.php?s...4740545C160510
http://www.int.iol.co.za/index.php?s...4740545C160510
#23
Account Closed
Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 1,163
Re: Moving to Johannesburg in September
Originally Posted by Haruspex
Bloody hell, people- you do seem to be so negative about your homeland. Words like 'slums' and 'vagrants' last passed the lips of English people about 60 years ago. I know we have a far more developed social welfare system etc etc, but don't you think it's quite depressing how you view your homeland. Maybe if you hadn't all run away in fear, then integration might be a little more forthcoming. I know I'm gonna get ripped to shreds by what I'm saying here, but it's really depressing.
I know it doesn't compare, but there are areas of London with gun crime, car jackings and muggings that many small towners would call 'no go' areas, but if we live as prisoners of our fear, then we never live our life. Shoreditch and Hackney in the UK are very trendy areas to go out (like Melville), but also have a lot of poverty and a lot of crime. But surely it's better to patronise these areas and provide some kind of economy than to stay in sterile wealthier quarters?
And I'm sorry, but it seems like what many of you are implicitly saying is 'South Africa is terrible now they've given the blacks freedom'.
I know I'm coming from a wishy washy champagne socialist UK viewpoint here, but to see someone so hopelessly negative about their country is terrible.
Maybe when I go over I'll be prooved wrong; I'll probably be car jacked, shot, raped, burgled- who knows. But at least I'll be giving it a go and going there without prejudice and fear.
I know it doesn't compare, but there are areas of London with gun crime, car jackings and muggings that many small towners would call 'no go' areas, but if we live as prisoners of our fear, then we never live our life. Shoreditch and Hackney in the UK are very trendy areas to go out (like Melville), but also have a lot of poverty and a lot of crime. But surely it's better to patronise these areas and provide some kind of economy than to stay in sterile wealthier quarters?
And I'm sorry, but it seems like what many of you are implicitly saying is 'South Africa is terrible now they've given the blacks freedom'.
I know I'm coming from a wishy washy champagne socialist UK viewpoint here, but to see someone so hopelessly negative about their country is terrible.
Maybe when I go over I'll be prooved wrong; I'll probably be car jacked, shot, raped, burgled- who knows. But at least I'll be giving it a go and going there without prejudice and fear.
#24
Re: Moving to Johannesburg in September
Originally Posted by Haruspex
Bloody hell, people- you do seem to be so negative about your homeland. Words like 'slums' and 'vagrants' last passed the lips of English people about 60 years ago. I know we have a far more developed social welfare system etc etc, but don't you think it's quite depressing how you view your homeland. Maybe if you hadn't all run away in fear, then integration might be a little more forthcoming. I know I'm gonna get ripped to shreds by what I'm saying here, but it's really depressing.
I know it doesn't compare, but there are areas of London with gun crime, car jackings and muggings that many small towners would call 'no go' areas, but if we live as prisoners of our fear, then we never live our life. Shoreditch and Hackney in the UK are very trendy areas to go out (like Melville), but also have a lot of poverty and a lot of crime. But surely it's better to patronise these areas and provide some kind of economy than to stay in sterile wealthier quarters?
And I'm sorry, but it seems like what many of you are implicitly saying is 'South Africa is terrible now they've given the blacks freedom'.
I know I'm coming from a wishy washy champagne socialist UK viewpoint here, but to see someone so hopelessly negative about their country is terrible.
Maybe when I go over I'll be prooved wrong; I'll probably be car jacked, shot, raped, burgled- who knows. But at least I'll be giving it a go and going there without prejudice and fear.
I know it doesn't compare, but there are areas of London with gun crime, car jackings and muggings that many small towners would call 'no go' areas, but if we live as prisoners of our fear, then we never live our life. Shoreditch and Hackney in the UK are very trendy areas to go out (like Melville), but also have a lot of poverty and a lot of crime. But surely it's better to patronise these areas and provide some kind of economy than to stay in sterile wealthier quarters?
And I'm sorry, but it seems like what many of you are implicitly saying is 'South Africa is terrible now they've given the blacks freedom'.
I know I'm coming from a wishy washy champagne socialist UK viewpoint here, but to see someone so hopelessly negative about their country is terrible.
Maybe when I go over I'll be prooved wrong; I'll probably be car jacked, shot, raped, burgled- who knows. But at least I'll be giving it a go and going there without prejudice and fear.
Words like slums do desribe arease of South Africa, poverty in SA is not the same as poverty in the UK. East London (or whereever) at its worst is not and never will be Alexandria. If you get a chance to see "tsotsi" that gives a pretty reasonable protrayel of life in the townships.
It is not too say everybody who lives in SA will be hijacked shot etc. so i think there needs to be a balance. You dont have to be a slave to fear but you need to be sensible.
Best is to go and see for yourself, make up your own mind, etc. I think everyone here wishes you the best, its just that nobody likes to be judged for leaving SA for whatever reason. It not as simple as "the country is going to pot since the blacks took over".. Not by a long shot, its not about black and white anymore, not for the majority of people.
I am sure you will have an exciting time, just remember SA is not the UK..you cant have a "african" version of your UK life there.
Cheers and keep posting, i for one will be interested in your experiences..
#25
Just Joined
Thread Starter
Joined: Jun 2006
Location: London EC1R, but soon to be Linksfield, Joburg
Posts: 10
Re: Moving to Johannesburg in September
Originally Posted by newkiwi
Like I said in an earlier post, i wish you all the best and im sure if you go there with the right attitude and streetsmarts you will probably be fine. But dont judge people for choosing to leave SA and make a go of it in another country. It is not "running away", some people go because they get a good job opportunity, some leave because they were directly involved in a bad crime incident etc.
Words like slums do desribe arease of South Africa, poverty in SA is not the same as poverty in the UK. East London (or whereever) at its worst is not and never will be Alexandria. If you get a chance to see "tsotsi" that gives a pretty reasonable protrayel of life in the townships.
It is not too say everybody who lives in SA will be hijacked shot etc. so i think there needs to be a balance. You dont have to be a slave to fear but you need to be sensible.
Best is to go and see for yourself, make up your own mind, etc. I think everyone here wishes you the best, its just that nobody likes to be judged for leaving SA for whatever reason. It not as simple as "the country is going to pot since the blacks took over".. Not by a long shot, its not about black and white anymore, not for the majority of people.
I am sure you will have an exciting time, just remember SA is not the UK..you cant have a "african" version of your UK life there.
Cheers and keep posting, i for one will be interested in your experiences..
Words like slums do desribe arease of South Africa, poverty in SA is not the same as poverty in the UK. East London (or whereever) at its worst is not and never will be Alexandria. If you get a chance to see "tsotsi" that gives a pretty reasonable protrayel of life in the townships.
It is not too say everybody who lives in SA will be hijacked shot etc. so i think there needs to be a balance. You dont have to be a slave to fear but you need to be sensible.
Best is to go and see for yourself, make up your own mind, etc. I think everyone here wishes you the best, its just that nobody likes to be judged for leaving SA for whatever reason. It not as simple as "the country is going to pot since the blacks took over".. Not by a long shot, its not about black and white anymore, not for the majority of people.
I am sure you will have an exciting time, just remember SA is not the UK..you cant have a "african" version of your UK life there.
Cheers and keep posting, i for one will be interested in your experiences..
I know on the face of it, UK poverty is nowhere near as 'bad' as SA poverty- we have running water, NHS (although getting an appointment with my GP- in the heart of Hackney- is so difficult, I have twice missed doses of important medication cos I just can't get to a medical centre.. sound familiar?), houses that are made of more than just tin (though a visit to www.shelter.org.uk might refute that) etc, but the tensions that our own poverty causes are not disimilar to those rife in modern SA. Everything is relative.
Right now, I am finding the UK tired and complacent with a government that seems intent on stripping down the values and rights we were once proud to have attained after years of effort. I for one am feeling exceedingly relieved that I will not be in the country when they try to make me pay to submit all my personal details to the government in the name of avoiding terrorism.
Anyway, this is all a rant. Ultimately, I am going in with my eyes open, and hope my experiences won't erode my faith and positivity in my futurew, and that of South Africa.
#26
Just Joined
Thread Starter
Joined: Jun 2006
Location: London EC1R, but soon to be Linksfield, Joburg
Posts: 10
Re: Moving to Johannesburg in September
Originally Posted by Deer Hunter
LOL!!! Obviously never been there!
#27
Just Joined
Thread Starter
Joined: Jun 2006
Location: London EC1R, but soon to be Linksfield, Joburg
Posts: 10
Re: Moving to Johannesburg in September
Originally Posted by Haruspex
And I have been there, thanks.
#28
Account Closed
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 8,266
Re: Moving to Johannesburg in September
We're sick and tired of idiots telling us that we're bitter and twisted expats who left the country because it is now under black rule. What utter bullshit.
We all decided one day that we're going to leave our homes, prosperous businesses, cars, friends, families, jobs, etc..with two or three kids in tow, and start a new life in an alien country, and start from scratch, just because we don't want to live under a black government, one that the vast majority of us voted to bring to power in the first place, through a referendum, which most people don't know about/forget about in the first place.
The reason that so many South Africans, black, white, colored, Indian, Chinese..etc..etc..are leaving, is because it is not safe there. Day to day life there is like living in a war zone, with no law and order or justice system in place, and when someone that lives within the country tries to bring focus to the problem, they are told to leave if they're not happy and that they're whiners.
In the meantime, you have people like my brother in law who was hijacked a few months ago in broad daylight from a busy street in peak hour traffic, driven around for 4 hours by 3 armed gunmen who were discussing how to get rid of him. He escaped that time. A few days ago, he was again in an attempted hijacking but managed to get away with nothing but a broken back window. He is one of the lucky ones. So far.
THAT is the reality of South Africa. THAt is the reason that so many are leaving the country. I read on another S.A. forum a week or two ago, how five or six black folk were recruited out of Eskom to go and work in Australia, and they're happily leaving.
So don't come and pontificate about something that you truly know nothing about. Walk a mile in my shoes, where you have had friends murdered in their secure driveways with AK47 laden thugs, or hijacked by 5 men bearing AK47's or burgled countless times and not had the police even bother to come and take a statement when a shotgun has been stolen and they're killing cops off with sawn off shotguns at the time like flies, or friends held up in their store with their 3 little kids by AK47 toting thugs, and after a five hour ordeal, made to walk home to their farm 5 miles away because the cops didn't have petrol to stick in their cars.
Sounds like a work of fiction doesn't it. Unfortunately, it is every minute reality for South Africans and especially in Johannesburg.
We all decided one day that we're going to leave our homes, prosperous businesses, cars, friends, families, jobs, etc..with two or three kids in tow, and start a new life in an alien country, and start from scratch, just because we don't want to live under a black government, one that the vast majority of us voted to bring to power in the first place, through a referendum, which most people don't know about/forget about in the first place.
The reason that so many South Africans, black, white, colored, Indian, Chinese..etc..etc..are leaving, is because it is not safe there. Day to day life there is like living in a war zone, with no law and order or justice system in place, and when someone that lives within the country tries to bring focus to the problem, they are told to leave if they're not happy and that they're whiners.
In the meantime, you have people like my brother in law who was hijacked a few months ago in broad daylight from a busy street in peak hour traffic, driven around for 4 hours by 3 armed gunmen who were discussing how to get rid of him. He escaped that time. A few days ago, he was again in an attempted hijacking but managed to get away with nothing but a broken back window. He is one of the lucky ones. So far.
THAT is the reality of South Africa. THAt is the reason that so many are leaving the country. I read on another S.A. forum a week or two ago, how five or six black folk were recruited out of Eskom to go and work in Australia, and they're happily leaving.
So don't come and pontificate about something that you truly know nothing about. Walk a mile in my shoes, where you have had friends murdered in their secure driveways with AK47 laden thugs, or hijacked by 5 men bearing AK47's or burgled countless times and not had the police even bother to come and take a statement when a shotgun has been stolen and they're killing cops off with sawn off shotguns at the time like flies, or friends held up in their store with their 3 little kids by AK47 toting thugs, and after a five hour ordeal, made to walk home to their farm 5 miles away because the cops didn't have petrol to stick in their cars.
Sounds like a work of fiction doesn't it. Unfortunately, it is every minute reality for South Africans and especially in Johannesburg.
#29
Re: Moving to Johannesburg in September
Originally Posted by TouristTrap
We're sick and tired of idiots telling us that we're bitter and twisted expats who left the country because it is now under black rule. What utter bullshit.
The only thing I was ever scared about was running out of ammo whenever the
smallholding got unwanted 'visitors'. Buying 9mm ball and SSG by the caseload normally cured that fear
#30
Account Closed
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 8,266
Re: Moving to Johannesburg in September
Originally Posted by 1066
Don't forget the fear factor .... we all left because we were scared ...
The only thing I was ever scared about was running out of ammo whenever the
smallholding got unwanted 'visitors'. Buying 9mm ball and SSG by the caseload normally cured that fear
The only thing I was ever scared about was running out of ammo whenever the
smallholding got unwanted 'visitors'. Buying 9mm ball and SSG by the caseload normally cured that fear