Moving to Joburg
Jul 9th 2008, 11:40 pm
#76
Account Closed
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 191
Re: Moving to Joburg
South African optimists seem to focus on this nowadays - affirming that SA won't go the way of Zimbabwe. That's the best we can do or hope for. If things had been done right it would be a laughable idea in the first place.
Jul 10th 2008, 11:51 am
#77
Member Delux
Joined: Jun 2007
Location: Johannesburg
Posts: 288
Re: Moving to Joburg
Spoken as a optimist, Thats true .But that is the most prevalent statement made by pessimists these days. 
Jul 10th 2008, 4:38 pm
#78
Banned
Joined: May 2008
Location: Lagrange 2
Posts: 1,507
Re: Moving to Joburg
I thought that there was a very significant amount of wealth held in the farms by whites. That i itself is asking for trouble. I know they've been making voluntary and compulsory ourchase but I don't think it will be long before they just take it. A la Zim..
Jul 10th 2008, 6:54 pm
#79
BE Forum Addict
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 1,424
Re: Moving to Joburg
problem arises when/if the New Bill gets past the Con court,
6.8% of Agri land is currently Black owned,the target is 30% by 2014.
I have no problem with who owns the land,only that it is economically and productivly farmed.
To date the Govt have fallen down woefully on support and training for the "New" farmers.
What screwed Zim was not the land grabs,it was that those who got the land were unable to continue producing, the the size of the allotments were only viable as subsistence, and the large farms were put in the hands of cronies who had zero ability,knowledge or desire.
6.8% of Agri land is currently Black owned,the target is 30% by 2014.
I have no problem with who owns the land,only that it is economically and productivly farmed.
To date the Govt have fallen down woefully on support and training for the "New" farmers.
What screwed Zim was not the land grabs,it was that those who got the land were unable to continue producing, the the size of the allotments were only viable as subsistence, and the large farms were put in the hands of cronies who had zero ability,knowledge or desire.
Last edited by Daxk; Jul 10th 2008 at 6:57 pm.
Jul 11th 2008, 9:08 pm
#80
Forum Regular
Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 46
Re: Moving to Joburg
problem arises when/if the New Bill gets past the Con court,
6.8% of Agri land is currently Black owned,the target is 30% by 2014.
I have no problem with who owns the land,only that it is economically and productivly farmed.
To date the Govt have fallen down woefully on support and training for the "New" farmers.
What screwed Zim was not the land grabs,it was that those who got the land were unable to continue producing, the the size of the allotments were only viable as subsistence, and the large farms were put in the hands of cronies who had zero ability,knowledge or desire.
6.8% of Agri land is currently Black owned,the target is 30% by 2014.
I have no problem with who owns the land,only that it is economically and productivly farmed.
To date the Govt have fallen down woefully on support and training for the "New" farmers.
What screwed Zim was not the land grabs,it was that those who got the land were unable to continue producing, the the size of the allotments were only viable as subsistence, and the large farms were put in the hands of cronies who had zero ability,knowledge or desire.
http://www.news24.com/News24/South_A...352073,00.html
Jul 11th 2008, 9:11 pm
#81
Forum Regular
Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 46
Re: Moving to Joburg
[QUOTE=Tegwyn;6548177]Why was it okay to criticize and condemn the previous SA government and not the current one? QUOTE]
was it ok?? you were arrested and treated as anti-nationalist if you criticised...huh...? now you can... then... you could never...Tegwyn..what rock do you live under?
was it ok?? you were arrested and treated as anti-nationalist if you criticised...huh...? now you can... then... you could never...Tegwyn..what rock do you live under?
Jul 11th 2008, 10:21 pm
#82
BE Forum Addict
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 1,424
Re: Moving to Joburg
[QUOTE=gilliana;6561797]
Gilliana,
two short points,
Zuma, will say whatever it takes to get himself the top job.
wether its in a poor white settlement, a farmers meeting or an ANCYL protest.
Do I really need to go through all the legal points ?
A lot of us did protest at the abuse of power the Nats performed, and like all other autocratic regimes, you get to a point where you shut up.
you do the best you can for those you can help, but you get on with your life, much as the villagers got on with their lives at Dachau and Buchenwald.
You were too young, ask your parents what they did to protest
two short points,
Zuma, will say whatever it takes to get himself the top job.
wether its in a poor white settlement, a farmers meeting or an ANCYL protest.
Do I really need to go through all the legal points ?
A lot of us did protest at the abuse of power the Nats performed, and like all other autocratic regimes, you get to a point where you shut up.
you do the best you can for those you can help, but you get on with your life, much as the villagers got on with their lives at Dachau and Buchenwald.
You were too young, ask your parents what they did to protest
Jul 11th 2008, 10:29 pm
#83
Forum Regular
Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 46
Re: Moving to Joburg
[QUOTE=Daxk;6562034]
Gilliana,
two short points,
Zuma, will say whatever it takes to get himself the top job.
wether its in a poor white settlement, a farmers meeting or an ANCYL protest.
Do I really need to go through all the legal points ?
A lot of us did protest at the abuse of power the Nats performed, and like all other autocratic regimes, you get to a point where you shut up.
you do the best you can for those you can help, but you get on with your life, much as the villagers got on with their lives at Dachau and Buchenwald.
You were too young, ask your parents what they did to protest
Dachau and Buchenwald - they did not "get on with their lives"???????
They suffered and they survived day by day - how on earth can you bring that in as a comparison?? I have read far too much and i think you are very ignorant to even bring their suffering into this...it does not compare.
Gilliana,
two short points,
Zuma, will say whatever it takes to get himself the top job.
wether its in a poor white settlement, a farmers meeting or an ANCYL protest.
Do I really need to go through all the legal points ?
A lot of us did protest at the abuse of power the Nats performed, and like all other autocratic regimes, you get to a point where you shut up.
you do the best you can for those you can help, but you get on with your life, much as the villagers got on with their lives at Dachau and Buchenwald.
You were too young, ask your parents what they did to protest
They suffered and they survived day by day - how on earth can you bring that in as a comparison?? I have read far too much and i think you are very ignorant to even bring their suffering into this...it does not compare.
Jul 11th 2008, 10:34 pm
#84
Forum Regular
Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 46
Re: Moving to Joburg
[QUOTE=Daxk;6562034]
Gilliana,
two short points,
Zuma, will say whatever it takes to get himself the top job.
wether its in a poor white settlement, a farmers meeting or an ANCYL protest.
Do I really need to go through all the legal points ?
A lot of us did protest at the abuse of power the Nats performed, and like all other autocratic regimes, you get to a point where you shut up.
you do the best you can for those you can help, but you get on with your life, much as the villagers got on with their lives at Dachau and Buchenwald.
You were too young, ask your parents what they did to protest
My parents could vote Ja or Nee
They voted Nee
If they protested further, we'd be in exile, and quite frankly, they weren't such political fanatics... i'm a little more interested in it that what they were... is that ok?
Gilliana,
two short points,
Zuma, will say whatever it takes to get himself the top job.
wether its in a poor white settlement, a farmers meeting or an ANCYL protest.
Do I really need to go through all the legal points ?
A lot of us did protest at the abuse of power the Nats performed, and like all other autocratic regimes, you get to a point where you shut up.
you do the best you can for those you can help, but you get on with your life, much as the villagers got on with their lives at Dachau and Buchenwald.
You were too young, ask your parents what they did to protest
My parents could vote Ja or Nee
They voted Nee
If they protested further, we'd be in exile, and quite frankly, they weren't such political fanatics... i'm a little more interested in it that what they were... is that ok?
Jul 11th 2008, 10:37 pm
#85
Forum Regular
Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 46
Re: Moving to Joburg
[QUOTE=Daxk;6562034]
ok i liked you now i dont... they were concentration camps..my god..they were villagers...they werent free to dress as is and go buy bread, and skip off to school??? why did you mention that?
Jul 11th 2008, 11:31 pm
#86
Nuts and Bolts
Joined: Sep 2006
Location: Palm Tree in the Snow
Posts: 2,116
Re: Moving to Joburg
[QUOTE=gilliana;6561797]
You can take your bloody insults and shove them you know where. I see you get personal here. Want to fly insults, go right ahead. There was a lot of criticism and activism that you as a little snippet would have been unaware of. Crawl back under your rock.:curse:
Jul 11th 2008, 11:51 pm
#87
BE Forum Addict
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 1,424
Re: Moving to Joburg
Gilliana, the villagers around the concentration Camps in Germany, especially Dachau, Buchenwald and Treblinka, could not do anything as if they did they would probably have ended up as inmates.
I clearly said, the Villagers , of the villages, next to where the concentration camps were built.
That was my point.
Your Parents may have voted nee at the end but they got on with their lives, helped where they could,paid as much as they could afford but at the end of day, did what we all did, got by, and as long as it did'nt affect us personally,continued.
In the same way, Idi Amin, Rwanda, Somalia, Darfur and Robert Mugabe etc
are terrible tragedies but,......? How long did they stay in power?
and btw, a huge amount of people just got on with their lives, under Hitler,Under Amin, Under Stalin, under McCartheyism and under Apartheid.
the difference is , Nelson gave us hope, with his Never again Speech.
what happened after?
I clearly said, the Villagers , of the villages, next to where the concentration camps were built.
That was my point.
Your Parents may have voted nee at the end but they got on with their lives, helped where they could,paid as much as they could afford but at the end of day, did what we all did, got by, and as long as it did'nt affect us personally,continued.
In the same way, Idi Amin, Rwanda, Somalia, Darfur and Robert Mugabe etc
are terrible tragedies but,......? How long did they stay in power?
and btw, a huge amount of people just got on with their lives, under Hitler,Under Amin, Under Stalin, under McCartheyism and under Apartheid.
the difference is , Nelson gave us hope, with his Never again Speech.
what happened after?
Jul 12th 2008, 10:24 am
#88
BE Forum Addict
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 1,881
Re: Moving to Joburg
seeing as though you all prefer news24 to sagoodnews...
http://www.news24.com/News24/South_A...352073,00.html
http://www.news24.com/News24/South_A...352073,00.html
Jul 14th 2008, 12:52 pm
#89
Member Delux
Joined: Jun 2007
Location: Johannesburg
Posts: 288
Re: Moving to Joburg
Well it is good news from the point of view that Zille can say her say without her being arrested and her HQ being raided a la Morgan and the MDC.
I dont believe us being better than the lowest of the low (Zimbabwe) should be any consolation to us. We have the potential to make the leap from being a developing nation to a developed one.
During the apartheid years SA citizens got on with their lives, did what they could. Currently we are getting on with our lives through trying times and doing the best we can. As in those days some might choose to do it from beyond our borders and thats ok.
We should take a leaf out of the americans' book on this one though. They as many of us might not agree with who is running the country presently. They might have to endure a very flawed administration .They also criticize, protest and disagree with their leaders but they remain staunch americans. We havent seen throngs of people immigrate from the states or even dissuade persons who could be an asset to the country from going there or advise them go to Australia instead.
Many here say they love the country, and this is them doing their bit .Just how is your actions helping S.A. ?
I dont believe us being better than the lowest of the low (Zimbabwe) should be any consolation to us. We have the potential to make the leap from being a developing nation to a developed one.
During the apartheid years SA citizens got on with their lives, did what they could. Currently we are getting on with our lives through trying times and doing the best we can. As in those days some might choose to do it from beyond our borders and thats ok.
We should take a leaf out of the americans' book on this one though. They as many of us might not agree with who is running the country presently. They might have to endure a very flawed administration .They also criticize, protest and disagree with their leaders but they remain staunch americans. We havent seen throngs of people immigrate from the states or even dissuade persons who could be an asset to the country from going there or advise them go to Australia instead.
Many here say they love the country, and this is them doing their bit .Just how is your actions helping S.A. ?
Last edited by Juggernaut; Jul 14th 2008 at 12:55 pm.
Jul 14th 2008, 1:06 pm
#90
BE Forum Addict
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 1,881
Re: Moving to Joburg
My dear Juggernaut, as I have said before, I do not propose to be a propagandist for anyone. When I am faced with the choice between what is convenient for the powers that be, and what is true, I will choose what is true, however inconvenient. The fact that I am in a minority in this choice does not concern me. Truth is never established by a show of hands.