6000

Read the thread - not all those people need ARVs.

You offer a hell of a lot of hearsay and rumours here.
You offer no evidence whatsoever.
Now why would that be?


Yeah - it's just like Zim here.

Just as I suggested - you have come back and shown that you know best.


Just incidentally, once again over the weekend, I listened to Madlala-Routledge saying that she was sacked over the Frere hospital visit and the unauthorised trip to Spain with her son. Strange how you seemingly even know better than her!

Pablo

Read the thread. I know that. I said it myself. Apologist.


[/QUOTE]

Strange how naive you are about Mbeki's and Manto's manoeuvres.

6000

And yet you complain about "those that should be on ARVs but aren't"? Shurely shome mishtake, Mr KIA?


Sorry - you talking to me or Nozizwe?

Pablo

The mistake lies in your inablity to read what I wrote.

6000

Surely:

"The mistake lies in your inablity to read what I wrote.

Pablo."

Mitzyboy

Pablo

http://www.time.com/time/world/artic...651830,00.html

"Aids fighter ousted in South Africa"

Redlippie

Quote:

Mbeki has long been notorious for his prickliness. And, as the 65-year-old successor to Nelson Mandela enters his final two years as president, his administration seems increasingly intolerant to criticism. His party, the African National Congress (ANC), frequently makes hysterical attacks on foreign press coverage of South Africa. In February, for example, the ANC compared the BBC to "the most die-hard racists in our country" after it aired a documentary about violent crime in the country.

Deja vue all over again. Visions of Uncle Bob.

Don't dare tell the truth, because you're a racist. God, it sickens me.

Pablo

Yes indeed, Redlippie. And the BBC ran a mile after that. Nothing scares it more than being called racist - and the various African despots and crooks know it.

It was reported yesterday that one of those silly human-interest TV programmes that follow the lives of children as they grow up had been made about South Africa. The kids that were followed in SA are now, apparently, seven. Trouble is, two have died of Aids, and others have been the victims of violent crime, and the programme makers, who were hoping for one of those feelgood Africa goodnews programmes, are now worried that the "wrong" impression will be created.

Tegwyn

Isn't that what 6000 is implying on the Sunday Times thread? Criticize the government and you are racist. Could it not possibly be because of their incompetence, corruption, abuse, etc that is under attack. We do that in this country too and our officials are white! It's called free speech and when there is enough of it going around, it forces change. Horrible thought for the apologists though.

Pablo

Well he's a master of innuendo, or thinks he is, and he will of course deny that this is what he is implying - no doubt with reference to absurd Venn diagrams or something.

Yep. Unless you're black. Then criticising the government means you're an Uncle Tom.

I don't think we're going to see "change" in SA anytime soon. Remember, the trouble only began in Zim when "change" loomed on the horizon. Then Uncle Bob got angry and out came the war drums and Bob's buddy "Hitler".

The other day, the BBC, in one of its typically starry eyed reports, was going on about how amazingly "progressive" SA's constitution is. Yeah, sure. Well when I see a change of government in SA, then I'll be impressed. In the meantime, I just remember how amazingly "progressive" the USSR's constitution was. Remember how many apologists there used to be for the old Soviet Union? How all the criticism was just disaffected 'capitalists' and other bourgeois running dogs spreading lies in the corrupt Western media?

Redlippie

I think what shocks foreigners is that not all of us were racists or had racist leanings. Most South Africans were interested in living their lives in peace, as people anywhere. They did not go around calling people kaffirs, or physically harming them. In fact, many Afrikaners actually raised black kids. I worked with one who had her maid's grandchild sleeping in their bedroom with her, and he called her mama. She put him through school, etc....

The ones who were involved in the political scene, I'm talking white folk here, were wealthy, Sandton liberals who could afford to be. The rest were working to put a roof over the heads of their kids, food on the table.

A handful of bad apples is all that the world saw. They did not see the interaction between the races at a personal level. I put my maid's kids through school, paid for their uniforms, school supplies, sent food and other stuff home with her for the six weeks she took vacation every year. As did the vast majority of folk in S.Africans. I worked with black clerical staff, in the 80's even, educated folk who were marvellous. Don't ever recall a racist remark directed against them, even then.

That is the reason I think Mbeki is the very worst president the country could have. He did not have that positive interaction with the white community in S.A.

Mandela did. Cyril did. Tokyo did (wink). They would have made great presidents due to that fact, instead of bringing the hatred/suspicion of white folk to the table as Mbeki has.

Juggernaut

I dont think thats what shocked foreigners .I think what shocks foreigners is how after 13 years of a new democratic government how little has changed .I'm sure you and a lot of other white folks did your best for the people you employed.That is admirable cos I still hear white folks goining around saying apartheid wasnt that bad .We cant blame it for any of what we're experiencing today.
The educated black clerical staff you were working had little to no prospects of advancement. Could any one of them ,no matter how good they were ever become your manager ? . Instead their brothers and sisters were maids and gardeners like their mothers and fathers before them and theirs before them. At least we treat them well and allow them to go and visit their families in the homelands once a year with some treats from their employers.

Pablo would be impressed to see a change in government in S.A. If the interaction with whites was really as positive for the majority of south africans then maybe we would see a change in government .I'm sure if you ask your maid and her kids that you put through school who they voted for they would say A.N.C.
Mandela played his role and so do Mbeki .My personal opinion is that although he is a hard worker it is hard to see the good he has done because of his huge failings in certain areas.

Redlippie

Mbeki is nothing but a lush. Finish and klaar. A disgrace.

Stanley10

So weren't the nats involved in the political scene?

Yep every office had a least one black face in it, they were called the teaboy/ girl, nothing racist in that.

Mandela's positive interaction - 27 years on Robben Island
Tokyo Sexwale's positive interaction - 13 years on Robben Island
Govan Mebeki's positive interaction - 23 years on Robben Island.

I get it, it was Thabo's old man who got the positive interaction, and Thabo is cheesed off because he missed out.