talbot

Why are you going back?

talbot

[QUOTE=Campbells;6001439] YES, GET TOGETHER AND DO YOUR OWN ETHNIC CLEANSING PLEASE??!

Redlippie

Piss off will you. I've been on the S.A. forum for over 4 years fighting the good fight against those wearing rose-coloured spectacles, so go and pick on someone who cares will you?

talbot

Being on the SA forum for 4 years, you should know how sensitive this issue is and not accuse us of being negative!!

Mitzyboy

Talbot ......... if you'd been on here long enough you'd know that was a bit of a standing "joke" aimed at me as I have asked people not to "attack" people that come on here and post initial positive threads!!!! RL is well aware of what SA is about and is the last person who would not take the issues seriously.

I think you have somewhat misunderstood

Daxk

Talbot, you are waaaaay off base, you're attacking someone who feels as strongly as you do ,as you do.

Redlippie

Martin, you don't have a clue as to what you are coming up against, moving to S.A. You cannot, and I say this with all sincerety, imagine what the crime situation you're getting into is like. My in-laws all live in the area - I know what it is like to live in Durban.

My brother in law was car hijacked in broad daylight on one of the busiest streets in Durban, and driven around for 4 hours whilst being told how he was going to die. He managed to escape when they got bored and wanted to go and get some booze, stopped at a shebeen (an illegal pub) and left him with one of them, he managed to escape then. A few weeks later, they shot his window out, again in broad daylight in the middle of a busy street, in an attempted hijacking.

We've had friends, work colleagues, acquaintances murdered in their driveways, held up at gunpoint, with AK47's pointed to their 7 and 10 year old kids' heads (two different families), been shot in the leg, etc..etc..etc...the list goes on and on and on and on.....I could spend an hour typing it all up. Us South Africans who lived there for many years, have a large circle of family/friends/acquaintances and I can promise you that not one of them has not been touched in some form or another by crime. Newcomers to the country might not have such a circle and therefore be a tad unaware of what is going on out there.

The favorite 'sport' in S.A. is to break into a house, secured like a fortress mind you, and torture, rape, etc..before murdering the entire family or the head of the household or the wife in the equation. This happens EVERY SINGLE DAY throughout the country, whether you live in the wealthiest of areas or the poorest shack. Even with the best security in your home that money can buy, you must realize that the security guards at the gates have families too, and they're threatened with being murdered or their families murdered, and so they let the criminals in to pillage as they want.

THIS is not a horror tale I'm spinning you. This is the REALITY of living in S.A.

Yes, the fact that you can live fairly 'cheaply', when it comes to the material things in life, is great. But at what cost, really?

Tegwyn

Talbot, you are so off base. I have known RL for years. She has her own number of horror stories to tell. Her comment was simply aimed at those that insist what we are telling them is merely being negative. The bitter expat syndrome.

Tegwyn

Another way of taking out the expertise. http://www.thetimes.co.za/News/Article.aspx?id=719198 Pointless and sadistic.

threelegs

dear campbells

iam a 46 yr old architect with a wife and two young children and we are looking for an outdoor life and to place our children in the best private education we can afford, we have friends who already live in umhlanga and have done for several years and their only regret was in not going there earlier in life.

sorry if i gave the impression of selfishly bottom feeding for info, iam an open minded indiviual and would not willingly enter into a situation which involved my family without obtaining as much relevant information as possible.

my present home island is considered extremely safe if you dont consider weekend street fighting due to binge drinking a problem, so iam trying to better understand the mindset of the criminals youre all describing and if any of that understanding makes my family safer then so be it.

thank you

martin

AudsFrmSA

Do you have a job lined up? Getting a job in your field (or any field for that matter) isn't easy, unless you come from an 'previously disadvantaged group', also bear in mind, the building industry is slowing down considerably, due to the new rules involved in building, because of the lack of electricity in the country, there are so many laws controlling you now when building, e.g. you have to make provision for generators, and timed geyesers, plus certain appliances must be able to be remotely controlled so that the goverment can decided to switch off your appliances off if they think you've used too much electricity that day. Another point worth considering is that you and your family are not going to get much of an outdoor lifestyle in SA anymore because of the violent crimes, most people feel safer in their secure gated community housing estates behind locked doors, and even then you are not safe. Private Education is available, but you are still looking at classes of approx. 26 children, not to mention that kids over here (in SA) only start primary school when they are 7yrs old, so we are a bit behind the UK.

Pugsy

I have many family who cannot leave SA, so they make the best of it and try to enjoy their lives whilst living with the risks, good for them. Sure, they go to nice restaurants, movies, etc. etc. all the stuff we do elsewhere, but they take their security seriously and have no illusions anymore. So for those who are going the other way, I completely do not understand it, but, everyone needs to scratch their own itch. So here's my security tips:

Live in a security complex (no guarantee of safety, but helps a little). Private security company and panic alarms are a must. Isolate your bedroom areas at night with an internal gate and set the alarm every night. Don't sleep with windows open (gas), rather have a fan or aircon inside. Have a plan with the family on what to do in an emergency, have a home emergency plan and a hijack plan. Be extra vigilant in your garden and have your panic alarm close by. Buy a gun (and licence obviously!), get you and your family lessons and keep it with you always, especially when driving and when chillin' at home (you are very vulnerable here). Although must keep away from kids (difficult, huh?!)

Buy a dog, train them to only eat from your hand and to only eat when you feed them. V. Important, otherwise they are at risk of poisoning by intruders. Get them trained.

If your house is not in a complex and say you are arriving home in the dark, phone your security company to rendezvous with you at the gate (we were doing this 10 years ago, regularly). Although it is imperative to get private security, be especially vigilant in the week or two after the system is installed if it is a new system (possible inside job).

Think carefully about whether you really need domestic help, inside jobs (again) are rife.

It's hard to advise on cars, because most are 'jacked to order, so, I don't know what's on the lastest shopping lists. Perhaps someone else will know. Back 10 years ago, it was the beemer 5, I should know, I had one and got alot of unwanted attention!! Back then, there unofficial advice from the cops was to treat red lights at night as yields and avoid stopping completely at all after dark. Always buttons down, never stop for suspicious persons, either standing up or lying in the road and beware if you are bumped from behind. Drive to cop shop if suspicious or being followed.

If my husband was away on business, I always went to stay with my parents, couldn't hack it on my own at night, too frightened.

Another thing, that is not spoken about much, is that the roads are very, very dangerous. Remember, Xmas time, all the Vaalies descending to the coast (me one of them!) and the very depressing Christmas death toll that Radio Five would update on like, every day at least, sometimes used to be over 1000 people for the month of December.

Forget trying to understand the mindset of the criminals in SA, who can understand why the depravity...? Just accept that's the way it is do your best to keep safe.

P.S I am not having a laugh with this post, I am totally serious and this is intended to help anyone moving there and is based on our experiences and security routine. Better the devil you know. Bring back memories anyone? Sure other's will add theirs too.

Campbells

Dear Sir,

In response to your recent enquiry for information regarding South Africa as a destination to re-settle you and you family we can suggest that you digest the information already on offer:

A recent study on South African school children offered results that 50% of SA school children are depressed, this is due to the violent nature of the environment and tense situation of the country.

Regarding an outdoor lifestyle this is no longer freely available in South Africa. It is almost guaranteed that you will find yourself moving from so-called safe areas to safe area and then back to your home which you will spend thousands of ZAR in trying to get it safe.

Safe from WHAT is the question?

The safety element in South Africa is not dealing with some drunken teenagers having a street fight. Crime is mostly a matter of life & death in South Africa.

The one term you will get to know very quickly is the 360, this refers to the degrees that your head will be required to rotate whilst faced with every day situations such as, driving you car out of the driveway, whilst walking anywhere in or near the Durban centre. Do not forget this one should you experience the displeasure of having to change a tyre on your vehicle. These are just some examples where you will be required to practice the 360 and we suggest that you get good at it and quickly.


Trying to understand the “mindset” of the criminals that have been described to you is an unachievable task and will only have you desperate to leave South Africa should you pursue this path. Understanding the crooked politicians that run South Africa is probably a quicker way to get up-to-speed.

Certainly the move to South Africa will certainly not offer “safer” status for your family, nor will it offer job opportunities for white children due to racial preferencing employment policies.

The only attraction that South Africa can offer you by comparison to your current “safe Island” is better weather and bigger houses for less money ( well at least if you are looking at a BPS to ZAR conversion).

It would seem that you have been offered information that explains that you WILL put your family at risk if living in South Africa and unfortunately these realities are usually a cold wake up call that is brought by the uninvited guest that doesn’t knock at the door before entering.

Most of the people here that have offered advice to you have lived in South Africa and mostly moved out seeking a safer destination for their family but obviously you know better.

Perhaps you will be the first that will post on here prior to moving to South Africa and continue to do so ( ongoing) once you have arrived at your new paradise.

We sincerely wish all the luck and most of all safety for you and your family.

Campbells.

PS: two new articles re Durban & KZN

http://www.24.com/news/?p=saa&i=855685

Refers to policemen being linked to hijacking in Durban

http://www.24.com/news/?p=saa&i=855599

Refers to cash heists - six in one day in KZN

And this one to babies murdered in shoot out

http://www.int.iol.co.za/index.php?s...2627401C321835

Daxk

Hi Martin, did you read the thread Introduce yourself? with it's vignettes of why most of us left?
I spent 10 years in the area you are considering, Durban North/La lucia in fact, and it was a great place to grow up in.
I happen to love the country and its people too, so why, should I win the Euro millions and be able to live anywhere I chose, would the last place on my list be SA? It's my birth Country,My Mother and family are still there,

Why are the forums that reflect life in SA all commenting that there is a rush of people trying to get out?
If you read my introduction you may get a small perception of what people are trying to tell you.

threelegs

I thank all those who have been kind and concerned enough to offer their advice and experience, it is well received and will be very well considered.

This is a huge decision for us as a family and we have till december to pull the plug if we cannot resolve ourselves to the inherent risks. my own personal experience of the place so far is very different to the one being expressed generally here and thats why iam keen to acknowledge all those with valid advice and cautions.

martin