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Anyone moving out to South Africa

Anyone moving out to South Africa

Old Dec 15th 2004, 7:42 am
  #46  
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Default Re: Anyone moving to South Africa is MAAADDD !!

Originally Posted by Stuart James
Many thanks for your wonderful insight.

Campbell, i am never offended, because everyone has there own view point - that is the point of a forum - so people get both sides if the story. I must say though are you living in SA? Sounds more like Rwanda, and at the risk of offending you i do think your on the juice.

What you describe to me is F#####G unbelievable, but there again i live in the Cape so maybe Joberg is very different.

One thing i do thank you for Campbell is at least you live here, so your opinion is valid, unlike others who flee the country (assumably persued by a pack of natives wielding sub machine guns) then moan like shit from afar, based on crap and third hand stories.

Yes we have affirmative action, no its not perfect, but shit - nor was apartheid!! Unfortunately in the past the black guy who got half of G'days dads business, was not allowed to carry out that trade, because of the colour of his skin. This practise, condemmed by the rest of the world carried on for decades and equality must now happen.

I also think you insult peoples intelligence by suggesting that they would come here because of what i believe, or for that matter you. I am sure they will make their own minds up.

I strongly suggest you don't appoint your estate agent to sell your house (whilst i accept they are experts on every thing under the sun) he/she is talking out of their arse. If seventy percent of sellers are leaving the country then who the hell is buying all the homes, last year SA house prices topped the increase list in the entire world, more houses and homes were built than ever before to the point where there there is a brick shortage. Real estate sales are at a record high. Not the sort of economic indicators that point towards what your agent describes.

The stuff you describe does and can happen, i have never said it does not - what i am saying is there is another side to SA, living here you know the one i mean.

Take care Campbells and come visit the Cape its must be like another country compared to where you are.

S

Ooh, Stuart, such language!

I actually come from the Cape (and recently), so you are talking out the side of your neck. CT CURRENTLY has the highest incidence of crime in SA, according to police stats.

The fact that Mr. Parasite could not practice his trade during the apartheid era still doesn't give him the right to 51% of my father's hard-earned income in the present day. Or are you on the gimme-gimme-you-owe-me bandwagon? You want a parasite of your own? Just send me your address and I'll send someone needy over to go and "share" 51% of your money and life. Mr. Parasite was also not prohibited by my father or anyone else from actually working to earn the money he was being paid, he could have a go at it if he wanted to, he just prefered not to. So now that the ANC has been in power for for over a decade, what's the excuse?
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Old Dec 15th 2004, 8:18 am
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Default Re: Anyone moving to South Africa is MAAADDD !!

Originally Posted by G'Day
Ooh, Stuart, such language!

I actually come from the Cape (and recently), so you are talking out the side of your neck. CT CURRENTLY has the highest incidence of crime in SA, according to police stats.

The fact that Mr. Parasite could not practice his trade during the apartheid era still doesn't give him the right to 51% of my father's hard-earned income in the present day. Or are you on the gimme-gimme-you-owe-me bandwagon? You want a parasite of your own? Just send me your address and I'll send someone needy over to go and "share" 51% of your money and life. Mr. Parasite was also not prohibited by my father or anyone else from actually working to earn the money he was being paid, he could have a go at it if he wanted to, he just prefered not to. So now that the ANC has been in power for for over a decade, what's the excuse?
Hi Gday,

No i'm not a gimme gimme you owe me person, but i'm also a realist. Yes the ANC is in power for a decade now and no politics here does leave a bad taste. In answer to the question whats the excuse is i suppose how long was apartheid practised for?

Segregation of schools, universities and basic human rights effected advancement of some people, whilst it gave others a huge advantage. The distribution of wealth pre 1994 clearly demonstrates this. But your right - that was all in the past and the country needs to get over it.


As to Cape Town having the highest crime rate - i really struggle with that, especially in lieu of what the Campbells are saying. Are you telling me you trust the police stats?

Where were you form in the Cape?
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Old Dec 15th 2004, 8:34 am
  #48  
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Default Re: Anyone moving to South Africa is MAAADDD !!

A decade is a long time to get over something. The National Party had apartheid firmly entrenched and many people brainwashed into believing it was right in half the time. If a 10% minority can subdue and suppress 90% of the population that fast why can't a 90% majority get their act together on crime and poverty?

I lived in several places in Cape Town and surrounds as I grew up in Hermanus and stayed in the Western Cape for most for my adult life. I've lived in Saldanah, Melbosstrand (last), Kommetjie, Blauwberg Strand, Somerset-West, Houtbay. All good places.

You seem to trust all of the other stats, so why not the crime stats? It's all or nothing with this, you can't pick and choose what you want to believe.[/
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Old Dec 15th 2004, 8:43 am
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Default Re: Anyone moving to South Africa is MAAADDD !!

Originally Posted by G'Day
A decade is a long time to get over something. The National Party had apartheid firmly entrenched and many people brainwashed into believing it was right in half the time. If a 10% minority can subdue and suppress 90% of the population that fast why can't a 90% majority get their act together on crime and poverty?

I lived in several places in Cape Town and surrounds as I grew up in Hermanus and stayed in the Western Cape for most for my adult life. I've lived in Saldanah, Melbosstrand (last), Kommetjie, Blauwberg Strand, Somerset-West, Houtbay. All good places.

You seem to trust all of the other stats, so why not the crime stats? It's all or nothing with this, you can't pick and choose what you want to believe.[/

Whats your source for those stats G'day.

And what are you on about its all or nothing i can't choose what i wish to believe!!

You must be smoking some good shit!! Its called freedom of rights i can have an opinion about any statistic i chose.

Did you get out of bed the wrong side this morning or are you always this happy?
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Old Dec 15th 2004, 8:50 am
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Default Re: Anyone moving to South Africa is MAAADDD !!

Originally Posted by Stuart James
Whats your source for those stats G'day.

And what are you on about its all or nothing i can't choose what i wish to believe!!

You must be smoking some good shit!! Its called freedom of rights i can have an opinion about any statistic i chose.

Did you get out of bed the wrong side this morning or are you always this happy?
I'm never happy when I meet a bullshitter. Especially not one who is dishonest as well. I hope everyone you "advise" reads this post so that they can see how you do it. You post only stats that support what you want to believe, and suppress stats that disagree with your beliefs. That's not truth, that's fiction and a fiction that can get good people killed at that!

I got the crime stats of the SAP site mid-2004. It's all there if you really want to know.
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Old Dec 15th 2004, 8:52 am
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Default Re: Anyone moving to South Africa is MAAADDD !!

Originally Posted by G'Day
I'm never happy when I meet a bullshitter. Especially not one who is dishonest as well. I hope everyone you "advise" reads this post so that they can see how you do it. You post only stats that support what you want to believe, and suppress stats that disagree with your beliefs. That's not truth, that's fiction and a fiction that can get good people killed at that!

I got the crime stats of the SAP site mid-2004. It's all there if you really want to know.

For those who don't know the SAP site is the South African Police site.
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Old Dec 15th 2004, 9:16 am
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Default Re: Anyone moving to South Africa is MAAADDD !!

Originally Posted by G'Day
For those who don't know the SAP site is the South African Police site.
I know the SAP site and no where on it does it say that Cape has the highest crime rate in SA.

G day you do get rather personal don't you, someone got there foot up your arse over there.


The expression "The wheel is turning but the hamster has left the cage" springs to mind.

Where do you get off insulting people you have never met you really should get out more!
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Old Dec 15th 2004, 9:21 am
  #53  
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Default Re: Anyone moving to South Africa is MAAADDD !!

Originally Posted by Stuart James
I know the SAP site and no where on it does it say that Cape has the highest crime rate in SA.

G day you do get rather personal don't you, someone got there foot up your arse over there.


The expression "The wheel is turning but the hamster has left the cage" springs to mind.

Where do you get off insulting people you have never met you really should get out more!
You made it personal, not me. But then I wouldn't expect you to notice that since you can't even search a site properly. G'Night now.
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Old Dec 15th 2004, 9:25 am
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Default Re: Anyone moving to South Africa is MAAADDD !!

Originally Posted by G'Day
You made it personal, not me. But then I wouldn't expect you to notice that since you can't even search a site properly. G'Night now.
Goodnight
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Old Dec 15th 2004, 10:00 am
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Default Re: Anyone moving to South Africa is MAAADDD !!

To anyone wanting to verify for themselves that SA is one of the most dangerous countries in the world - you can check this out yourself. These are 2004 stats.

From the SAP (South African Police) site http://www.saps.gov.za/. It's copied from an Adobe format so please read it through very carefully including the part where the conviction rate is "low" (e.g only 8% of ALL reported rape cases lead to conviction) please note also that "Since 1994, there has been a constant increase of government expenditures on the safety
and justice sectors. Still, only part of these expenditures went directly into crime prevention and
control."

If you look at the stats Western Cape has the highest crime rate and Gauteng is second, but WC beats Gauteng hands down.

ODC Country Profile: South Africa Page 55
6. SUMMARY STATISTICS
6.1 Crimes Recorded
The expectation which many had in 1994 that crime – especially violent crime – would
decrease has not fully materialized. Crime figures for 2000 indicate that the number of recorded
crimes was at an all-time high, although the figures for a majority of crimes have decreased
somewhat in the last period under observation: 2001/2002 (although still at higher levels than for
the period 1994/95- 1999/2000).
Table 9: Overall crime rates: 1994/95 – 2001/02 (per 100,000 population)67
1994/95 1995/96 1996/97 1997/98 1998/99 1999/2000 2000/01 2001/02
5,224.0 5,195.6 5,003.8 5,045.8 5,217.9 5,456.4 5,653.0 5,571.0

Thus, there was a certain decrease in the overall crime level through 1996/97 followed by a
steady increase with peak high rates in 2000/2001. This upward trend was arrested in the last
reporting period of 2001/2002.
66 2000 was the last full calendar year for which official police crime statistics based on old methodology were released
by the Crime Information Analysis Centre (CIAC) of the South African Police Service. A moratorium on police crime statistics
was introduced in early 2000 in order to review the methods for gathering and presenting police statistics. New data were
released in November 2001 covering the period between January and September 2001, but the new methodology was for the first
time fully used in the 2001/2002 Annual Report. Pre-1994 data should not be considered to be reliable as the mechanism of
collection and verification of the eleven police agencies operating in the country varied enormously in their composition and
quality.
67 The total crimes recorded per year is based on the following crimes: murder, attempted murder, robbery with
aggravating circumstances, other robbery, rape, serious assault (grievous bodily harm, GBH), common assault, housebreaking
(business and residential premises), stock (livestock) theft, shoplifting, theft of motor vehicles, theft out of motor vehicles, other
thefts, arson, malicious damage to property, all frauds, drug-related crime, driving under influence of alcohol or drugs, illegal
possession of firearms or explosives, hijacking of cars or trucks, cash-in-transit robberies, and bank robberies.
ODC Country Profile: South Africa Page 56
Obviously the overall country crime rates provide only certain indications regarding
general trends. However, there are significant variations in the geographical location of crime
within the national territory as there are diverse patterns exhibited by different crime types or
singular crimes (see also section 7).
Figure 18 depicts overall crime rates for each of the nine provinces in South Africa
(2001/2002).68
Figure 18: Overall crime rates per province, 2001/02

Eastern Cape 4001
Free State 5800
Gauteng 8200
KwaZulu-Natal 4300
Limpopo 2200
Mpumalanga 4500
Northern Cape 6800
North West 4400
Western Cape 9900
The two provinces (Western Cape and Gauteng) with an overall crime rate higher than
8,000 crime incidents per 100,000 stand out. These are the most developed provinces of South
Africa with a concentration of business, public administration and large urban areas (Cape Town,
and Johannesburg and Pretoria). It is interesting to note that these two provinces have the
highest rates of murder and aggravated robbery, and among the highest rates of serious assault
(violent crime) as well as of residential and business break-ins (property crime) and commercial
crime. The least crime-ridden province is that of Limpopo, while Eastern Cape, KwaZulu-Natal,
Mpumalanga and North West exhibit similar overall crime levels.
6.2. Further Case Processing
Of the nearly two and one half million recorded crimes in 2000, 1,455,895 went
“undetected� (cases where (a) the suspect is unknown and where there is insufficient evidence to
enable the police to identify a suspect, and (b) where the suspect is known and a warrant for
arrest has been issued, but the suspect’s whereabouts are unknown and no charge has been laid).
In addition, just under another half million cases were withdrawn. Of the 609,928 cases that
were sent to court, 211,762 ended in a conviction of the accused (Schonteich 1999).
68 The Annual Report also provides data for 2000/2001 and an analysis of trends in the so called “more policeable
crimes� (crimes such as aggravated robbery, housebreaking, theft of/from motor vehicles, and stock theft, which it is claimed can
be deterred and prevented by an increase in conventional styles of policing). However, caution should be exercised in comparing
only two consecutive yearly rates and focusing on the potential of different policing styles to influence trends in crime.
ODC Country Profile: South Africa Page 57
The number of cases that resulted in a conviction, as a proportion of the number of reported cases, was rather low. In 2000, it ranged from 49% for drug-related offences, 18% for murder, 8% for rape, and 2% for car jacking. This means that on average only one out of every
five and one half reported murders end in the conviction of the perpetrator. For rape, the
comparable ratio is one out of 11, and for car jacking one out of 53 (Schonteich 1999).
Once a case enters the prosecution service, the criminal justice system improves. On
average, of all crimes that are prosecuted some three quarters result in a conviction of the
accused (Schonteich 1999). This is a result which compares favorably internationally.
6.3 Budget and Financial Resources
Since 1994, there has been a constant increase of government expenditures on the safety
and justice sectors. Still, only part of these expenditures went directly into crime prevention and
control. Undergoing radical transformation, both the police and justice sectors have had to direct
a significant portion of funds into the restructuring process itself, including the recruitment of
new staff and balancing of the ethnic composition of the work force.
The 2001 national budget reflects the Government’s commitment to improving its services
in the area of crime prevention and criminal justice. The Government’s awareness that raising
capacity and improving the quality of service delivery in the justice system are critical to the
quality of life of all its citizens led to additional budget allocations to the safety and security
sector in 2001.
Table 10: Budget allocations 2001 in US$
Safety and Security (Police) 2,142,000,000
Justice (Prosecution and courts) 462,000,000
Correctional Services 772,000,000
Source: Government Budget 2001.


The United Nations site for crime stats in SA

http://www.unodc.org/southafrica/en/...y_profile.html

This international site (using SAP supplied data) concluded that:

ODC Country Profile: South Africa Page 58
7. CRIME SITUATION
7.1 Main Characteristics
Crime is of increasing concern to South Africa’s citizens and the Government. In its
annual budget 2001, the Government prioritized fighting crime as an area of critical concern and
increased expenditures for the safety and justice sectors. Crime is recognized as a deterrent to
investment in the country and also having an adverse impact on the poor.
The overall levels of recorded crime in South Africa began to increase in the mid-1980s,
dramatically so in the early 1990s. While levels stabilized between 1995 and 1996, crime has
been increasing since then (Schonteich 1999), although in 2001/2002 there was a certain level of
decrease, but still the rates were at a much higher level than in the period 1994/95. Police
records indicating high levels of crime are supported by a number of victimization surveys,
including the first National Victimization Survey69, the International Crime Victim Survey
(ICVS) and the International Crimes against Business Survey70 as well as a number of local city
surveys.
Among those countries that provide detailed crime statistics, South Africa reports some
of the highest levels of violent crime. In 2000, one third of all crimes recorded by the police in
South Africa were violent in nature (Schonteich and Louw 2001).
Violent crime is accentuated by the availability of firearms in the society. According to
the police services’ Central Firearms Registry, 3.5 million South Africans legally possess 4.2
million firearms, and it is estimated that a similar number of illicit firearms are circulating in the
country. Most firearms used in crimes originate from theft or loss of private and state owned
firearms.

Crimes against women and children
Violence against women and children is endemic to South Africa. In 2000, over 52,000
rapes and attempted rapes were reported, while for the period January-September 2001, more
than 37,000 cases were reported. In particular, the level of reported rape is among the single
highest in the world, and is of great concern to the government. The South African Police
Service disclosed that in the period January-September 2001 more than 15,000 children (persons
under the age of 18) were raped, while more than 1,800 girls were the victims of indecent
assault. In the same period, almost 9,000 had become victims of violence, and 920 were
murdered (with more than 1,600 victims of an attempted murder). In addition, the country
experienced problems of in-country trafficking of women and children, mainly from rural areas
and informal settlements to urban areas into the sex industry. Violence against women is typical
in rural areas.

The theft of firearms has doubled since 1994. Murder with a firearm increased to 49% of
all murders in 1999, while robbery with a firearm increased to 85% of all serious robberies.
Three quarters of firearms victims are young men aged 18-39, and 85% of firearm perpetrators
are young men aged 16-39.


If that doesn't sober you up try this:
http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/ar...TICLE_ID=25806

and and article by the BBC
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/africa/258446.stm

For further rape stats go to:

http://www.powa.co.za/

at http://www.powa.co.za/Display.asp?ID=2

What says you now Stuart? Or are the SAP and POWA and the UN all halucinating and on drugs? Maybe they just didn't buy the rose tinted sunglasses with their ticket!

Last edited by G'Day; Dec 15th 2004 at 10:20 am.
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Old Dec 15th 2004, 11:18 am
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Default Re: Anyone moving to South Africa is MAAADDD !!

Hi James,

Thanks for the great reply. It is sad that you revert to swearing & getting loud.
I am somewhat disappointed to find out that you live in the Cape as it sounded like you really know what’s going on (first hand) with the crime situation here.

Let’s not get into an argument as that will just give a bad image of the beautiful peace-loving people of this country. I have taken the time to respond to your post as follows:

SJ wrote:
Campbell, I am never offended

Campbell responds:
Okay mate you’re not offended but it seems like you want to get nasty. Why would that be? Perhaps someone has posted a “fact� that you disagree with?

SJ wrote:
Sounds more like Rwanda, and at the risk of offending you I do think you’re on the juice.

Campbell responds:
You said it mate. With the huge volumes of immigrants (and the majority of them illegal) pouring in here from all over Africa that is a very apt description. Your comment re the juice is obviously said because you live in the Cape (some 1200 kms from here) but want to tell me that I haven’t got a clue. Sounds a tad familiar to me mate.

The fact that we live in supposedly one of the most affluent areas of Jo’burg and yes at times the behaviour is like that of Rwanda does say a lot.

SJ wrote:
What you describe to me is F#####G unbelievable, but there again I live in the Cape so maybe Jo'berg is very different.

Campbell responds:
I rest my case.

SJ wrote:
One thing I do thank you for Campbell is at least you live here, so your opinion is valid, unlike others who flee the country (assumably persued by a pack of natives wielding sub machine guns) then moan like shit from afar, based on crap and third hand stories.

Campbell responds:
Obviously your stories of Jo’burg (Gauteng) are first-hand and you get upset with me ‘cause you don’t agree with them. Now you’re going to tell me that I’m fleeing the country blah blah blah.

SJ wrote:
Yes we have affirmative action, no it’s not perfect, but shit - nor was apartheid!! Unfortunately in the past the black guy who got half of G'days dads business, was not allowed to carry out that trade, because of the colour of his skin. This practice, condemned by the rest of the world carried on for decades and equality must now happen.

Campbell responds:
Have a wee look at the history of the “then� black-owned/ run publication, DRUM. That should take care of that misunderstanding.

Define equality ? My father fought in the WW II as did many others. In fact if it wasn’t for Churchill most of us would be speaking German. The UK was flattened but re-built, there was / are no job creation schemes where Brits have to be employed by the Germans etc etc. Let’s not mention what the Jews suffered!

To me it sounds like you feel that G’days father should pay for what happened during apartheid?

SJ wrote:
I also think you insult people’s intelligence by suggesting that they would come here because of what I believe, or for that matter you. I am sure they will make their own minds up.

Campbell responds:
The point here is not what you believe but rather the cold, hard FACTS. And the one issue here is CRIME and you are trying to tell everyone that it doesn’t exist.

My point is that it IS NOT SAFE here and that is my message. You on the other hand do not live near ( Jo’burg) but want to tell potential visitors that it is all up to �common sense�. I think common sense should stretch as far as understanding that some potential visitors live in cultures where guns are not allowed and could be intimidated by the experience of going to the local Spar & seeing a pump-action yielding guard in the car park let alone someone pointing a gun at them and taking their wallet, jewelry or cellphone.

SJ wrote:
I strongly suggest you don't appoint your estate agent to sell your house (whilst I accept they are experts on every thing under the sun) he/she is talking out of their arse.

Campbell responds:
Sorry mate, you’re now a property expert? Pam Golding is one of the largest, most successful estate agents in SA. Your tone is once again a tad scary.

SJ wrote:
If seventy percent of sellers are leaving the country then who the hell is buying all the homes, last year SA house prices topped the increase list in the entire world, more houses and homes were built than ever before to the point where there is a brick shortage.

Campbell responds:
Exactly my point mate. The “black empowerment� issues are that I must “give 51%� of my business away because of the previous years of apartheid but the SA government is not controlling the market prices to alleviate the accessibility of first-time home owners and by that I mean what is termed the “previously disadvantaged�. We also have a monopoly on telephone service, one company – Telkom ( serious shareholder – USA , black empowerment?). Some of the highest telephone rates in the world, black empowerment ?

Three cellular network providers (one; Cell C uses Vodacom’s network). Once again, one of the highest call charges in the world – black empowerment?

At every second traffic light here I am hounded by street vendors and lots of them sell the “Homeless� mag. I do hope that in lieu of all this previously disadvantaged / black empowerment issues that the gov are doing something about the millions here that still live in shacks whilst our president flys around in his own private jet. Now where have I heard that before?

SJ wrote:
Real estate sales are at a record high. Not the sort of economic indicators that point towards what your agent describes. SA house prices topped the increase list in the entire world, more houses and homes were built than ever before to the point where there is a brick shortage.


Campbell responds:
Once again, you said it mate. Well the good thing is that there are brick shortages as this is a huge opportunity for the local gov to alleviate the stats of 46% unemployment & that EXCLUDES the illegal immigrants that are still pouring in. Let’s see what they are doing about that or they waiting for 51% of a previously advantaged brick business?

SJ wrote:
The stuff you describe does and can happen, I have never said it does not - what I am saying is there is another side to SA, living here you know the one I mean.

Campbell responds:
As previously mentioned I WAS hi-jacked at gunpoint in 96. Quite honestly I am sick of the jerk-off attitude of oh well that’s another baby raped, or murdered. Or someone else is shot DEAD for a car or cellphone etc etc and AIRHEADS like you just say, oh well it does happen ! Historically one of the best export commodities for the Cape was Ostrich feathers!

SJ wrote:
Take care Campbells and come visit the Cape its must be like another country compared to where you are.

Campbell responds:
In your ignorant attitude it has never occurred to you that I DID actually live in the Cape, We immigrated there in 99 after the hijacking looking for a better lifestyle and gee, let’s go for an evening stroll down Seapoint – WHA T??

THAT IS NOT SAFE. With all due respect a lot of Capies believe that CT is the end-all & be all. NOT ! Your salaries are totally well below the average for this country, your houses are at least double compared to Jo’burg (due to international buyers), in terms of the “Old South Africa�, Afrikaans is the most common language down there & I was referred to as a Redcoat. Being Scottish that is a HUGE insult but anyway that goes to show the level of intelligence I was faced with.

And for what it’s worth Cape Town is now the crime capital of SA & probably the world.

In closing I do hope that if you come up to Gauteng that you are not going to navigate to avoid being a victim of crime by using your common sense.

Cheers, let me get back to the juice now!

Campbell.
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Old Dec 16th 2004, 2:45 pm
  #57  
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Smile Re: Anyone moving out to South Africa

Due to a recent change in circumstances I am seriously considering my options regarding my life. I spent 3 weeks just outside Hermanus last christmas and new year and loved the country but have no idea of what would be involved in getting out there on a more permenant basis.

So what I basically need to know is how do I get a job? Are there any good web sites to help with this? What sort of visa do I need? How do I emmigrate?? How do I spell?? Basically what do I need to do to make all this happen.

If you could help or put me onto someone who can then that would be great.

Cheers

Chris


Originally Posted by Stuart James
Don't believe the press and negative publicity - i have been here for 3 years and this place is heaven on earth.

Crime was worse in the UK.

The standard of living is amazing!!!

If you want anymore informatin give me a shout

Stu
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Old Dec 17th 2004, 4:16 am
  #58  
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Default Re: Anyone moving to South Africa is MAAADDD !!

Originally Posted by Campbells
You may have seen some of my other posts and we are at this point in time immigrating to NZ. Quite frankly Stuart James (at the risk of offending you) you are WAY OFF the mark and I sincerely hope that folk do not take you comments serious and I think you should consider that some folk are considering their futures and come to these forums for helpful & honest input.
Its all about how much $$$ one can pull from some poor potential immigrant. Never mind the facts.

We very recently put our house on the market and we had one of the leading estate agents here (international Co) and their comments were that 70% of house sellers reason for selling – immigration outta AFRICA.
The ones who are buying are the poor Brit/German buggers who get sucked into doing it by the likes of SJ who paint a wonderfully rosy picture all the while suppressing the truth about the country. How many dead in Iraq in 2004? compared to South Africa? S.A. has probably had more deaths this past year, than a country engaged in full-out war.

South Africans are used to walking around on 'full military alert' at all times of day or night (when they do venture out of doors at night), whereas most first worlders don't have a clue at what danger they are putting themselves in. Its not a case of maybe wandering into 'South Central L.A.' , a known danger zone. The entire country is a danger zone and requires that one be on security alert.

You say that crime is on the decrease, yes in the statistics, why? because the government are shaping it that way for the flocks of sheep to believe. If you think that a crime ridden place like this is okay then come here and experiences the shock of going to a police station and discovering that most of the staff can’t read or write. If you comment they laugh at you.
Crime being on the decrease is a lie put out by the ANC dept of disinformation. Why do they refuse to release statistics? Why do they state that there were 21 000 murders the other year, whilst the South African Medical Research Council (also Interpol), that actually counts the bodies, reported 32 000, (mostly unsolved murders).

Last weeks news headlines read that the police stations are now protected by private security companies, I think that says a lot.
This has been going on in the Cape for years. Cape Town was the first to get private security firms to protect the police stations. If we had to tell anyone around here this, they'd think we were mad.

Common sense & being careful does NOT CUT IT as the crimes we are experiencing here are NOTHING SHORT OF BARBARIC and (at the risk of not being politically correct) a lot of the violence is racially motivated. When someone breaks in your home to steal your belongings, one thing, when they rape the WHOLE FAMILY then shoot pregnant mothers in front of the other children blah blah blah. I’m sorry the crimes here are NO WHERE NEAR the crimes in the UK. This place IS NOT SAFE …………………
Agreed wholeheartedly.

Not too long ago we had a Grandmother, mother & year-old BABY (all one family) shot execution style for fun by some twenty odd year-olds. If this was in first world country there would be a public outrage, here it’s just another day in Africa.
God, what a tragedy that was. Sunnyside. I used to walk in the area at 1 am after coming out of the movie theater a few short years ago.

Several months ago I saw a shooting in broad daylight, two cars driving in front of me as I was at the lights (in the front of the queue) the furtherest car’s passenger leaned out & shot the driver of the other car which went out of control & bounced off lots of traffic. NOTHING DONE. This happened some thirty meters from a police station. Later that day I called that police station to find out what happened and none (inc the commander in-charge) knew anything about it. You ever heard a 9mm being shot? You will hear that thing for miles even above traffic.
Can believe it. Had my shotgun stolen just before I left, at a time when policemen were being picked off as targets by sawn off guns. I knew who the culprits were and still they didn't even bother to come out.


Many of us are in communication with our families/friends weekly, so are very much aware of what the truth about life in S.A. is.

Can anyone say Japanese tourist?
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Old Dec 17th 2004, 6:52 am
  #59  
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Default Re: Anyone moving out to South Africa

Originally Posted by Claridge
Due to a recent change in circumstances I am seriously considering my options regarding my life. I spent 3 weeks just outside Hermanus last christmas and new year and loved the country but have no idea of what would be involved in getting out there on a more permenant basis.

So what I basically need to know is how do I get a job? Are there any good web sites to help with this? What sort of visa do I need? How do I emmigrate?? How do I spell?? Basically what do I need to do to make all this happen.

If you could help or put me onto someone who can then that would be great.

Cheers

Chris
Hi Claridge - check your private mail. Cheers, i am signing off today until the new year so have a great one.
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Old Dec 18th 2004, 9:25 am
  #60  
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Default Re: Anyone moving out to South Africa

Originally Posted by Stuart James
Hi Claridge - check your private mail. Cheers, i am signing off today until the new year so have a great one.
SJ:
Maybe best you offer you "common sense" advice in private.

Just hope you also advise that moving to SA as of Oct 2004 is NO MORE DUAL CITIZENS. No a chance for me folks, I have already reneged my SA citizenship which was just given to me, not something I applied for.

Kinda gives the feeling that something is brewing ??

Izibear wrote:
The ones who are buying are the poor Brit/German buggers who get sucked into doing it by the likes of SJ who paint a wonderfully rosy picture all the while suppressing the truth about the country. How many dead in Iraq in 2004? Compared to South Africa? S.A. has probably had more deaths this past year, than a country engaged in full-out war.

I have never thought of the whole situ like that & does kinda give a new perspective.

Claridge,
My words of advice & I’m sure many others, is to get a few other opinions as I personally wouldn’t take anything thing this guy says seriously.

Not too fluent in Afrikaans myself , praat Afrikaans or Afrikaans Praat ?

Cheers and hope everyone has a great weekend.

Campbell
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