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Old Mar 28th 2011, 2:49 pm   #1
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Default Undecided expat

Hi. My name is Dorothy and I joined not long ago but haven't really posted anything of substance yet.

I'm an American with dual Dutch citizenship married to a Dutch man, and we have a 7 year old daughter. We currently live in Ireland but my family would really like us to move by them in Milwaukee, USA. This sounds ok in some ways - to be around family and old friends, but that would really be the only reason I would move back. I feel like I don't belong in any country (after living outside the the US - in the Netherlands and Ireland - for 10 years).

We also think about moving to England. My husband is a head chef and has spoken to some recruiters there who say he could get a good job with his cv but it would be much easier to find a job if we already lived there (that raises another question of where in England). I feel like I can relate the more to England than the US. I watch British television and the news (I cannot listen to CNN - it gets on my nerves). The British "get" irony and real football I've been to England on holiday, but have never lived there. Seeing a country as a tourist is quite different from living there. We keep going back and forth and need to make a decision soon.

Any advice, thoughts, comments especially from people who have lived in both the US and England as far as comparison on quality of life, etc?

Thanks for reading my rambling post.
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Old Mar 28th 2011, 3:08 pm   #2
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recognize the feeling... feel like a gipsy myself!
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Old Mar 28th 2011, 3:30 pm   #3
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Default Re: Undecided expat

Hi there Dorothy...welcome to BE. Thank you for taking the time to introduce yourself...I hope you will enjoy being part of our cyber community.

As you feel more comfortable with Brits I recommend you take a look at our Moving Back To The UK Forum. We have a great crowd of very helpful members who post in those forums...so if you post any questions you may have regarding moving to the UK I'm sure you get some helpful replies. Also take a look in the BE Wiki.

We have a team of concierges who will act as your tour guides if you need help navigating your way through the many BE forums. You can find a list of our concierge's at the bottom right hand side of this forum's index page.

Any problems or concerns should be addressed to a moderator...you can find the mod's name at the bottom right hand side of each forum's index page. Moderators' names are in bold print and concierges' names are in standard print.

There is a forum called UK Yankee that looks at life in the UK from an American expat's point of view which you may find interested.

Please let me know if I can be of any further help. Good luck.


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Old Mar 28th 2011, 3:32 pm   #4
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Default Re: Undecided expat

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Originally Posted by vrrrespa View Post
recognize the feeling... feel like a gipsy myself!
Hello. Why don't you open a new thread and introduce yourself to us. There's a lot of us on here that feel like gypsies too...so you'll be in good company.
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Old Mar 28th 2011, 5:44 pm   #5
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Default Re: Undecided expat

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Originally Posted by dotdarling View Post
Hi. My name is Dorothy and I joined not long ago but haven't really posted anything of substance yet.

I'm an American with dual Dutch citizenship married to a Dutch man, and we have a 7 year old daughter. We currently live in Ireland but my family would really like us to move by them in Milwaukee, USA. This sounds ok in some ways - to be around family and old friends, but that would really be the only reason I would move back. I feel like I don't belong in any country (after living outside the the US - in the Netherlands and Ireland - for 10 years).

We also think about moving to England. My husband is a head chef and has spoken to some recruiters there who say he could get a good job with his cv but it would be much easier to find a job if we already lived there (that raises another question of where in England). I feel like I can relate the more to England than the US. I watch British television and the news (I cannot listen to CNN - it gets on my nerves). The British "get" irony and real football I've been to England on holiday, but have never lived there. Seeing a country as a tourist is quite different from living there. We keep going back and forth and need to make a decision soon.

Any advice, thoughts, comments especially from people who have lived in both the US and England as far as comparison on quality of life, etc?

Thanks for reading my rambling post.
Welcome to BE Dorothy, I hope you get some useful replies to your question but it would be worth following JG's advice and may be reposting on the MBTTUK sub forum.......there are quite a few helpful members posting on there who have lived in both countries
Good luck with your research & happy posting!
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Old Mar 28th 2011, 6:40 pm   #6
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Default Re: Undecided expat

Hi Dorothy

Welcome to BE.

What a dilemma. I hope you find the answer soon and be happy whereveer you decide to move to.
I hope the information you find on here can help

Hi vrrrespa

Welcome to BE to you also

Dread - x
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Old Mar 29th 2011, 3:06 pm   #7
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Default Re: Undecided expat

Thanks for the welcome and the advice. It's good to know that I'm not the only one who feels like a gypsey
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Old Mar 29th 2011, 7:28 pm   #8
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My two pence worth................US or Wales
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Old Mar 30th 2011, 5:19 am   #9
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Default Re: Undecided expat

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Originally Posted by dotdarling View Post
I'm an American with dual Dutch citizenship ... We currently live in Ireland but my family would really like us to move by them in Milwaukee, USA. This sounds ok in some ways - to be around family and old friends, but that would really be the only reason I would move back. I feel like I don't belong in any country (after living outside the the US - in the Netherlands and Ireland - for 10 years).

Any advice, thoughts, comments especially from people who have lived in both the US and England as far as comparison on quality of life, etc?
Hi Dorothy, I'm new to this group too, & my husband & I are trying to make the same decision you are. We're both American, but we've lived in Europe, Asia, and now have been in England for almost 14 years. The husband is facing retirement & most of our families are pressuring us to move back to the US, though we do have one adult child well settled in London who wouldn't be happy to see us go.

We keep going back & forth endlessly, trying to figure out which country would be a better "fit" for us. After nearly 20 years of living outside the USA, we don't feel American. I have the same dislike of CNN that you do, so I fear I'll not be able to bear US-style TV, with all the fake-looking chirpy presenters gabbling away at each other--it drives me crazy!

Just wanted you to know that there are other folks similar to you trying to make a similar decision. My husband often says he's "a man without a country". We've been trying to decide for years which country to "settle" in, but in a few months when he retires, we really need to have a place picked out.

I think it does help to read the boards here. I've been reading up on the USA, France, and Returning to the UK boards. they remind me of the pitfalls & frustrations of living in each place, and also the joys. I haven't found an answer yet, but I think reading about & comparing the choices has GOT be a step in the right direction!
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Old Mar 30th 2011, 9:53 am   #10
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My two pence worth................US or Wales
Thanks for the reply. I'm curious as to why you say US or Wales.
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Old Mar 30th 2011, 10:02 am   #11
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Originally Posted by WEBlue View Post
Hi Dorothy, I'm new to this group too, & my husband & I are trying to make the same decision you are. We're both American, but we've lived in Europe, Asia, and now have been in England for almost 14 years. The husband is facing retirement & most of our families are pressuring us to move back to the US, though we do have one adult child well settled in London who wouldn't be happy to see us go.

We keep going back & forth endlessly, trying to figure out which country would be a better "fit" for us. After nearly 20 years of living outside the USA, we don't feel American. I have the same dislike of CNN that you do, so I fear I'll not be able to bear US-style TV, with all the fake-looking chirpy presenters gabbling away at each other--it drives me crazy!

Just wanted you to know that there are other folks similar to you trying to make a similar decision. My husband often says he's "a man without a country". We've been trying to decide for years which country to "settle" in, but in a few months when he retires, we really need to have a place picked out.

I think it does help to read the boards here. I've been reading up on the USA, France, and Returning to the UK boards. they remind me of the pitfalls & frustrations of living in each place, and also the joys. I haven't found an answer yet, but I think reading about & comparing the choices has GOT be a step in the right direction!
Hello WEBlue. It sounds like we really do have the same dilemma. I'm glad to know that I'm not the only one who finds those fake, plastic looking presenters really irritating. It just exemplifies for me one of the most annoying things about going back to the States - the emphasis of style over substance in so many areas. We change our minds from day to day on where we plan to live. Stay in Ireland (beautiful country but really poor infrastructure), move to England (only ever been as a tourist but know more about what is going on there politically than I do about what is going on in the States), move to the States and be around family but be irritated by just about everything else or maybe take a chance and move to Spain (my husband leans towards France) but with a young daughter we also have to be practical. Sigh...

We've tried prioritizing what is most important to us, but each place has at least one thing on that list. I guess a positive point is that we at least have a choice. Not everyone does. But having too much choice can really be a problem
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Old Mar 31st 2011, 8:12 pm   #12
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Hello WEBlue. It sounds like we really do have the same dilemma. I'm glad to know that I'm not the only one who finds those fake, plastic looking presenters really irritating. It just exemplifies for me one of the most annoying things about going back to the States - the emphasis of style over substance in so many areas. We change our minds from day to day on where we plan to live. Stay in Ireland (beautiful country but really poor infrastructure), move to England (only ever been as a tourist but know more about what is going on there politically than I do about what is going on in the States), move to the States and be around family but be irritated by just about everything else or maybe take a chance and move to Spain (my husband leans towards France) but with a young daughter we also have to be practical. Sigh...

We've tried prioritizing what is most important to us, but each place has at least one thing on that list. I guess a positive point is that we at least have a choice. Not everyone does. But having too much choice can really be a problem
Hello, I relate to what a lot of folks here say and to some of what you're saying Dorothy. I don't like the US. My parents were from Ireland and England, and I grew up first in Canada, then the US. I am so with you on your take on the US. There are certainly places in the US that are not too bad, but overall the culture of the US is very incompatible with my own values. The consumerism is an annoying aspect. I could go on and on about what I don't like, but it's rather pointless. When you ask about American culture, and they start talking about cowboys and Manifest Destiny, I'm sorry it just doesn't interest me. I would say if you don't like American culture, stay where you are and take a little time to explore, don't make a rash decision. I love England and continental Europe myself. I like Ireland too, but I get a little clastrophobic there sometimes. Sometimes I find the Irish a little argumentative and my Irish relatives can be fairly overbearing with unsolicited advice that thinly veils unstated agendas of their own, which is quite annoying. No place or people are perfect, but I would love to be anywhere in Europe over the US personally (and I'm planning for this).
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Old Mar 31st 2011, 8:26 pm   #13
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Default Re: Undecided expat

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Hi. My name is Dorothy and I joined not long ago but haven't really posted anything of substance yet.

I'm an American with dual Dutch citizenship married to a Dutch man, and we have a 7 year old daughter.
One question, how hard is the Dutch citizenship test! (aaaarrggghhh)

(I'm interested, long story.)

IF you were to consider moving back, there are cities with Dutch speaking residents and Dutch churches, in the midwest.

But if you *had* to make a choice between the US and the UK..... and your husband doesn't have a preference.... then I'd say England is more similar to NL than is the US.

Has your husband visited the US for any length of time?
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Old Mar 31st 2011, 9:33 pm   #14
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Hello, I relate to what a lot of folks here say and to some of what you're saying Dorothy. I don't like the US. My parents were from Ireland and England, and I grew up first in Canada, then the US. I am so with you on your take on the US. There are certainly places in the US that are not too bad, but overall the culture of the US is very incompatible with my own values. The consumerism is an annoying aspect. I could go on and on about what I don't like, but it's rather pointless. When you ask about American culture, and they start talking about cowboys and Manifest Destiny, I'm sorry it just doesn't interest me. I would say if you don't like American culture, stay where you are and take a little time to explore, don't make a rash decision. I love England and continental Europe myself. I like Ireland too, but I get a little clastrophobic there sometimes. Sometimes I find the Irish a little argumentative and my Irish relatives can be fairly overbearing with unsolicited advice that thinly veils unstated agendas of their own, which is quite annoying. No place or people are perfect, but I would love to be anywhere in Europe over the US personally (and I'm planning for this).
Hi Coulson

Welcome to BE to you too.

It seems this dilemma is not so rare heh?

Good luck and I hope wherever you end up brings you happiness

Dread - x
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Old Mar 31st 2011, 9:35 pm   #15
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Hello, I relate to what a lot of folks here say and to some of what you're saying Dorothy. I don't like the US. My parents were from Ireland and England, and I grew up first in Canada, then the US. I am so with you on your take on the US. There are certainly places in the US that are not too bad, but overall the culture of the US is very incompatible with my own values. The consumerism is an annoying aspect. I could go on and on about what I don't like, but it's rather pointless. When you ask about American culture, and they start talking about cowboys and Manifest Destiny, I'm sorry it just doesn't interest me. I would say if you don't like American culture, stay where you are and take a little time to explore, don't make a rash decision. I love England and continental Europe myself. I like Ireland too, but I get a little clastrophobic there sometimes. Sometimes I find the Irish a little argumentative and my Irish relatives can be fairly overbearing with unsolicited advice that thinly veils unstated agendas of their own, which is quite annoying. No place or people are perfect, but I would love to be anywhere in Europe over the US personally (and I'm planning for this).
Quote:
Originally Posted by snowbunny View Post
One question, how hard is the Dutch citizenship test! (aaaarrggghhh)

(I'm interested, long story.)

IF you were to consider moving back, there are cities with Dutch speaking residents and Dutch churches, in the midwest.

But if you *had* to make a choice between the US and the UK..... and your husband doesn't have a preference.... then I'd say England is more similar to NL than is the US.

Has your husband visited the US for any length of time?
Coulson 77...I totally understand your feelings about the States. The only real reason we would move back would be to be close to family/good friends. But the rest...bleh. It's the attitude that everything is better there and everything ever invented came from there. I had an American ask me if they had cable television in the Netherlands (when living in the Netherlands and visiting the States).

Snowbunny, I much prefer the English culture to the American. As far as Dutch citizenship test...I had to learn the language and it really is not an easy one (I consider Spanish to be relatively easy by comparison).
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