Is it worth moving to the US?
#76
Re: Is it worth moving to the US?
again if an NHS Dr chooses to do non-NHS work in non-NHS time paying their own insurance for such work as they have to then why exactly do you have a problem with that??
you dont have to be a consultant to do private work as private work encompasses such a wide range of things.
again where do you draw the line? some students in the US if they go to an in-state med school pay subsidized fees of less than $20k a year. Does that mean they should only work in that state when they finish given it has paid for half their education or more?
you dont have to be a consultant to do private work as private work encompasses such a wide range of things.
again where do you draw the line? some students in the US if they go to an in-state med school pay subsidized fees of less than $20k a year. Does that mean they should only work in that state when they finish given it has paid for half their education or more?
You are talking to some of us who have spent decades in the UK and US...whilst you have been in the you US for a few weeks.
IMO medicine is a vocation...for those who wish to help others. In the US it's all about $$$$$$$ for many doctors.
Petitefrancaise...we have friends who are GPs in the UK. Their practice takes private patients too. The UK is like most places...money talks...but at least there is treatment for all UK residents vs those who can pay.
#77
Banned
Joined: May 2015
Posts: 124
Re: Is it worth moving to the US?
Unless you haven't noticed...the US is one country. That's like saying because you went to Leeds Uni...you must work in Yorkshire until your debts are paid.
You are talking to some of us who have spent decades in the UK and US...whilst you have been in the you US for a few weeks.
IMO medicine is a vocation...for those who wish to help others. In the US it's all about $$$$$$$ for many doctors...for several reasons ie insurance, uni debts and more.
You are talking to some of us who have spent decades in the UK and US...whilst you have been in the you US for a few weeks.
IMO medicine is a vocation...for those who wish to help others. In the US it's all about $$$$$$$ for many doctors...for several reasons ie insurance, uni debts and more.
the fees thing can be debated endlessly. a polish student can go to medical school free in scotland yet he/she can simply go and work in poland or wherever afterwards without his parents ever paying a dime in UK tax yet an english student would have to pay there.
#78
Re: Is it worth moving to the US?
point taken but already I am seeing the benefits of working here. Here I get 1hr to consult a patient in the UK I got 10-15 minutes which frankly isnt enough and dangerous for a number of obvious reasons.
the fees thing can be debated endlessly. a polish student can go to medical school free in scotland yet he/she can simply go and work in poland or wherever afterwards without his parents ever paying a dime in UK tax yet an english student would have to pay there.
the fees thing can be debated endlessly. a polish student can go to medical school free in scotland yet he/she can simply go and work in poland or wherever afterwards without his parents ever paying a dime in UK tax yet an english student would have to pay there.
#79
Account Closed
Joined: Mar 2004
Posts: 2
Re: Is it worth moving to the US?
I have had good treatment in the UK and Sri Lanka when I have gone private. Sri Lanka was the best.
#80
Re: Is it worth moving to the US?
I know. My daughter was born prematurely and had septicemia. She was in NICU for 5 days where she had her own room, her own nurse and the best care available. This was in France and it was completely free at the point of delivery. Over the next 11 years, our contributions to the french health/social system cost us over €1 million on a very normal middle class salary. I shudder to think at the cost of that treatment in the USA. I also think that she may not have survived in the NHS.
That sheds a lot of light on your attitude and many of your other posts.
I suspect that most people would consider €90,000/$120,000 to be a very normal middle class salary.
Last edited by Pulaski; Jul 25th 2015 at 11:43 am.
#81
Banned
Joined: May 2015
Posts: 124
Re: Is it worth moving to the US?
You're contributions to the French system were over €90,000/yr on a "very normal middle class salary".
That sheds a lot of light on your attitude and many of your other posts.
I suspect that most people would consider €90,000/$120,000 to be a very normal middle class salary.
That sheds a lot of light on your attitude and many of your other posts.
I suspect that most people would consider €90,000/$120,000 to be a very normal middle class salary.
i was thinking just the same point!! if his/her contributions to the system were 90k a year then salary must have been minimum 180k a year or much more. Then has the nerve to have a go at doctors salaries in the UK or doing private work!! Or maybe the word clueless comes to mind!
#82
Banned
Joined: May 2015
Posts: 124
Re: Is it worth moving to the US?
I have experienced healthcare in the UK and Canada (socialised medicine) and the US (private). I agree with you...my experience of the UK and Canada...is to move onto the next patient as quickly as possible. Whereas my US experience is that the doctor will spend ages chatting to you about cars, football, just about anything under the sun. This is a big BUT...my experience in the US is within the NYC Met Area...where you are located. This is not indicative of the US in general. For instance... if I want to see a specialist I can usually do so within 24/48 hours. If I then decide on elective surgery...it can be done within a week. On one occasion I needed to visit the ER...I called my specialist whilst I was en route. There was a guy with a wheelchair waiting for me outside the ER. Although there was a couple of dozen people waiting....I was wheeled straight through to see a doctor. From what others in here have posted...it is not the case everywhere in the US.
sounds more like concierge medicine tbh rather than standard fare not that that is bad by any means. the workload here is far far less than the NHS because they have strict caps on workload etc which are enforced unlike in england where they are completely ignored
#83
Re: Is it worth moving to the US?
i was thinking just the same point!! if his/her contributions to the system were 90k a year then salary must have been minimum 180k a year or much more. Then has the nerve to have a go at doctors salaries in the UK or doing private work!! Or maybe the word clueless comes to mind!
#84
Account Closed
Joined: Mar 2004
Posts: 2
Re: Is it worth moving to the US?
I am beginning to think that some members' posts should come with a wealth warning. I had, prior to reading one of PetitieFrancaise' posts, considered that I have a "very normal middleclass salary", and indeed I have been criticized by her, among others, for over-estimating the income needed to support a comfortable life in the US. Yet it is obvious that she, and others, have substantially greater income than I do and/or much more saved away. With PF and others being so very far removed from the average, I would suggest they are ill-equipped to judge where the dividing line is between comfortable and not-so-comfortable, what is normal, and what living on average, or just below average, income looks like.
#85
Banned
Joined: May 2015
Posts: 124
Re: Is it worth moving to the US?
I am beginning to think that some members' posts should come with a wealth warning. I had, prior to reading one of PetitieFrancaise' posts, considered that I have a "very normal middleclass salary", and indeed I have been criticized by her, among others, for over-estimating the income needed to support a comfortable life in the US. Yet it is obvious that she, and others, have substantially greater income than I do and/or much more saved away. With PF and others being so very far removed from the average, I would suggest they are ill-equipped to judge where the dividing line is between comfortable and not-so-comfortable, what is normal, and what living on average, or just below average, income looks like.
#87
BE Enthusiast
Joined: Dec 2002
Location: texas
Posts: 910
Re: Is it worth moving to the US?
I must admit I blinked twice when I saw that figure on PF's post about medical expenses in France. I know my HB works in the same company and he earns well above the middle class range. PF's husband works in a different spectrum completely so I have no idea what his pay level is but it will be more than a enough for a family of 5 with a non working wife to live, do lots of trips with the kids and get private tutors, none of which I would equate with middle class.
I must admit I hate these threads about different health care systems as they are all based on totally different sources of funding and what one person constitutes as good care could be totally different from the next
I had excellent care in England and Scotland when I lived there. My eldest daughter was born at 32 weeks and had top notch care as did I. The only thing I would do differently was the fact she was given formula for the 1st 48 hrs but that was over 30 yrs ago when they didn't fully realise the impact just giving a small amount of formula could effect the success of breast feeding.
My youngest daughter was born with a fractured shoulder due to a difficult birth and i was basically unconscious for next 36 hrs. This time, they put in a nasal drip with donated breast milk while I recovered enough to feed her myself.
My Doctor in Scotland was brilliant and would often spend more time with us that required (thence the long wait times). More often than not he or one of his partners were on call, so if the kids got sick during the night, it would be them, not some locum.
The care I have received over here has been more often than not top notch but if I had stayed with the first primary care doctor I saw on my arrival, my impression might not have been so good. Fortunately I have been with the same doctor now for 14 yrs and he like my doctor in Scotland, is very welcoming and always willing to listen. I have always been aware that we have been lucky over here as we are part of a very good health plan. My kids have not been so fortunate, where there have been times since they left college where they had no health care. Even the heath insurance they do receive is not any match to the one my husband and I get.
As to France, my experience has been fleeting. Given the amount of prescription drugs that I dumped on cleaning out my parents house, they over medicate to the extreme. Even for myself on receiving treatment for a tick bite, I was told to take 2 doxycycline pills immediately but I was given a package containing 15. My mother is currently in a nursing home in Pontivy and her care is excellent with continuing speech and physical therapy all for 2,600€ a month whereas the home where we intend to send her in the next month or so in Rochester is £1250.00 per week! Haven't even looked at nursing homes over here.
I am tempted not to read the Guardian at the moment as all I see is an attack on the poor working class by the present government day after day. This current campaign against doctors and nurses is just part of the same nastiness that seems to prevail at the moment. A government that considers a million pounds as a middle class inheritance, has definitely lost touch with the people they serve.
I must admit I hate these threads about different health care systems as they are all based on totally different sources of funding and what one person constitutes as good care could be totally different from the next
I had excellent care in England and Scotland when I lived there. My eldest daughter was born at 32 weeks and had top notch care as did I. The only thing I would do differently was the fact she was given formula for the 1st 48 hrs but that was over 30 yrs ago when they didn't fully realise the impact just giving a small amount of formula could effect the success of breast feeding.
My youngest daughter was born with a fractured shoulder due to a difficult birth and i was basically unconscious for next 36 hrs. This time, they put in a nasal drip with donated breast milk while I recovered enough to feed her myself.
My Doctor in Scotland was brilliant and would often spend more time with us that required (thence the long wait times). More often than not he or one of his partners were on call, so if the kids got sick during the night, it would be them, not some locum.
The care I have received over here has been more often than not top notch but if I had stayed with the first primary care doctor I saw on my arrival, my impression might not have been so good. Fortunately I have been with the same doctor now for 14 yrs and he like my doctor in Scotland, is very welcoming and always willing to listen. I have always been aware that we have been lucky over here as we are part of a very good health plan. My kids have not been so fortunate, where there have been times since they left college where they had no health care. Even the heath insurance they do receive is not any match to the one my husband and I get.
As to France, my experience has been fleeting. Given the amount of prescription drugs that I dumped on cleaning out my parents house, they over medicate to the extreme. Even for myself on receiving treatment for a tick bite, I was told to take 2 doxycycline pills immediately but I was given a package containing 15. My mother is currently in a nursing home in Pontivy and her care is excellent with continuing speech and physical therapy all for 2,600€ a month whereas the home where we intend to send her in the next month or so in Rochester is £1250.00 per week! Haven't even looked at nursing homes over here.
I am tempted not to read the Guardian at the moment as all I see is an attack on the poor working class by the present government day after day. This current campaign against doctors and nurses is just part of the same nastiness that seems to prevail at the moment. A government that considers a million pounds as a middle class inheritance, has definitely lost touch with the people they serve.
#88
Re: Is it worth moving to the US?
FYI
In France, the employer of a "cadre" (professional) pays approx 70% of the salary to the government in different forms of social charges that cover everything from healthcare to unemployment benefit.
So, my figure was based on a €100k salary. Which actually costs the company €170k.
The employee pays at least 23% which is deducted before receiving it. Then you have income tax and housing taxes taken out of the rest.
I didn't include the 17% or in some cases, 19% sales taxes that were paid. That's gone up btw.
One of the main reasons for the huge exodus of middle class professionals from france is the enormous burden of taxation.
In France, the employer of a "cadre" (professional) pays approx 70% of the salary to the government in different forms of social charges that cover everything from healthcare to unemployment benefit.
So, my figure was based on a €100k salary. Which actually costs the company €170k.
The employee pays at least 23% which is deducted before receiving it. Then you have income tax and housing taxes taken out of the rest.
I didn't include the 17% or in some cases, 19% sales taxes that were paid. That's gone up btw.
One of the main reasons for the huge exodus of middle class professionals from france is the enormous burden of taxation.
Last edited by petitefrancaise; Jul 25th 2015 at 5:48 pm.
#89
Re: Is it worth moving to the US?
oh yeah and doconthemove...
I can imagine the surprised look on my husband's manager's face if he said "I'm a bit more senior now with more experience so I want to keep my salary the same and take less time at work to go away and spend that time on better paying consultancy"
The NHS consultant system in the UK is an out-of-date anachronism that should have been abolished years ago,
I can imagine the surprised look on my husband's manager's face if he said "I'm a bit more senior now with more experience so I want to keep my salary the same and take less time at work to go away and spend that time on better paying consultancy"
The NHS consultant system in the UK is an out-of-date anachronism that should have been abolished years ago,
#90
Banned
Joined: May 2015
Posts: 124
Re: Is it worth moving to the US?
oh yeah and doconthemove...
I can imagine the surprised look on my husband's manager's face if he said "I'm a bit more senior now with more experience so I want to keep my salary the same and take less time at work to go away and spend that time on better paying consultancy"
The NHS consultant system in the UK is an out-of-date anachronism that should have been abolished years ago,
I can imagine the surprised look on my husband's manager's face if he said "I'm a bit more senior now with more experience so I want to keep my salary the same and take less time at work to go away and spend that time on better paying consultancy"
The NHS consultant system in the UK is an out-of-date anachronism that should have been abolished years ago,