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When you moved here, did you notice right away that poverty is more apparent here?

When you moved here, did you notice right away that poverty is more apparent here?

Old Nov 27th 2014, 10:45 am
  #91  
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Default Re: When you moved here, did you notice right away that poverty is more apparent here

Maybe San Jose is more strict at the moment... till the next person takes over, maybe... or perhaps they just broke some of the unwritten rules... shut down the free tab... whatever.
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Old Nov 27th 2014, 10:51 am
  #92  
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Default Re: When you moved here, did you notice right away that poverty is more apparent here

Originally Posted by WriterChick
Maybe San Jose is more strict at the moment... till the next person takes over, maybe... or perhaps they just broke some of the unwritten rules... shut down the free tab... whatever.
The world changes. NYC was the crime capital of the US in 1960s and now it fights with San Jose as the safest of the 10 largest cities. Maybe the city was too busy fighting a bigger problem but corruption will eventually get bitten in the ass.
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Old Nov 27th 2014, 10:52 am
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Default Re: When you moved here, did you notice right away that poverty is more apparent here

Originally Posted by Michael
I can imagine that the FBI would arrest IRS agents for taking a bribe (free bar tab) since that is against federal law. They are both federal employees and if bribes were found to be widespread, the head of that district will likely be fired and replaced with someone that will enforce IRS law. Any agent that had a free bar tab will likely quit since the IRS agent probably couldn't do the job since the owner or employees may possibly tell the FBI.
Sorry, Mr. Michael,

But I find all this a bit amusing, because this is a way of life here. May not be there, but it certainly is here.

Any bar or other cash business here naturally wouldn't declare all their cash intake. That would be patently naive. And few would be so stupid as to knowingly charge a policeman, a councilman, or a tax inspector for drinks (or at least fail to offer that gratuity as recognition of "respect"). I reckon most will happily pay the bill anyway, but the recognition is important to avoid "problems" down the road.

And I still think you should take me up on the challenge I posed earlier. It may actually support your argument.

Last edited by amideislas; Nov 27th 2014 at 10:58 am.
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Old Nov 27th 2014, 10:54 am
  #94  
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Default Re: When you moved here, did you notice right away that poverty is more apparent here

Maybe... but corruption exists everywhere. The world will never be corruption-free.

Some humans will always cheat on their taxes.

So, whatever.
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Old Nov 27th 2014, 11:00 am
  #95  
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Default Re: When you moved here, did you notice right away that poverty is more apparent here

Originally Posted by amideislas
Sorry, Mr. Michael,

But I find all this a bit amusing, because this is a way of life here. May not be there, but it certainly is here.

Any bar or other cash business here naturally wouldn't declare all their cash intake. That would be patently naive. And few would be so stupid as to knowingly charge a policeman, a councilman, or a tax inspector for drinks (or at least fail to offer that gratuity as recognition of "respect"). I reckon most will happily pay the bill anyway, but the recognition is important to avoid "problems" down the road.

And I still think you should take me up on the challenge I posed earlier.
I'm not sure what challenge you are talking about. If you are referring to the swat team, that's not going to happen. We aren't talking about $1,000 but potentially millions of dollars in taxes from one owner over a period of time. That's corruption at a very high level if an IRS agent, police officer, or councilman is turning a blind eye for a free bar tab.
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Old Nov 27th 2014, 11:08 am
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Default Re: When you moved here, did you notice right away that poverty is more apparent here

It may be corruption, but it is NORMAL.

When 9-11 happened, and so many officers and firefighters died, many of which were customers of our establishments because we were located in the direct area of the first responders, after all the funerals without bodies, the businesses were all left wondering how it would effect the 'deals' that had been in place for years and years, because obviously there would be new people in those positions...

Reality is reality.

Nothing changed, for the record.

And it isn't just NYC.

I worked in Miami, Boston, LA, NY and Chicago... it was all the same.

I know business owners all over the USA. Nothing has changed.
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Old Nov 27th 2014, 11:29 am
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Default Re: When you moved here, did you notice right away that poverty is more apparent here

Originally Posted by Michael
I'm not sure what challenge you are talking about. If you are referring to the swat team, that's not going to happen. We aren't talking about $1,000 but potentially millions of dollars in taxes from one owner over a period of time. That's corruption at a very high level if an IRS agent, police officer, or councilman is turning a blind eye for a free bar tab.
You apparently missed that one. But here's the point;

If you (like most people) believe that Americans are by far the most guilty of tax evasion, have a look at which nationalities are setting up the majority of private tax-free offshore places to hide their money.

Whilst I can assure you that Americans are well on that list, they probably don't rate in the top 5. The UK and Germany will almost assuredly be more prolific than Americans in that regard.

Having said that, the German finanzamt is amongst the most aggressive tax collection agencies on the planet, with widespread powers to do so. They routinely engage in (quite legal under German law) domestic spying, and even in international espionage, covertly paying foreign bank employees millions to secretly hand over databases of account holders. It's a matter of record, by the way, not a conspiracy theory.http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2008_Liechtenstein_tax_affair. The US also engages in it, but far more oft employs open, diplomatic means than covert action.

In defence, the Finanzamt's aggressiveness has exposed some heavy hitters, but as matter of pure cost/benefit, it has only resulted in a few billion in additional tax revenue.

Ironically, even that level of aggressiveness doesn't stop Germans from hiding their money. In fact, aside from the oppressive taxation imposed on those who actually have money, I'd argue it actually encourages more evasion out of fear.

So while the IRS may be stepping up its aggressiveness, I'm not sure it's either practical, nor a proportionate response to a rather moderate problem, nor that it will have much tangible return on its investment, yet may actually fuel increased motivation to evade taxes. Americans are not yet burdened with oppressive taxation, and still have far less motivation to evade it (even if they whinge about it).

Last edited by amideislas; Nov 27th 2014 at 11:44 am.
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Old Nov 27th 2014, 11:33 am
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Default Re: When you moved here, did you notice right away that poverty is more apparent here

It might help to look at the longstanding American small business tax evasion tactics less as corruption and more as... TRADITION.

Because, really, it IS simply a longstanding American tradition.
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Old Nov 27th 2014, 11:47 am
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Default Re: When you moved here, did you notice right away that poverty is more apparent here

Originally Posted by WriterChick
It might help to look at the longstanding American small business tax evasion tactics less as corruption and more as... TRADITION.

Because, really, it IS simply a longstanding American tradition.
Just as it is in Spain .. although that tradition is increasing being treated as corruption, which it probably should be. But for Spaniards, it fosters even more fear and distrust of government, which is already over the top.

Anyway ... I seriously doubt tax evasion has much to do with the homelessness you'll find in any country.

Last edited by amideislas; Nov 27th 2014 at 11:54 am.
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Old Nov 27th 2014, 11:54 am
  #100  
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Default Re: When you moved here, did you notice right away that poverty is more apparent here

Yup. Same thing, different location!
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Old Nov 27th 2014, 2:39 pm
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Default Re: When you moved here, did you notice right away that poverty is more apparent here

Originally Posted by amideislas
My further understanding is that this is one of the issues Obamacare originally sought to minimise, by providing some level of insurance support for everyone, so that hospitals could achieve some cost relief through state-sponsored coverage of those at poverty level, theoretically reducing the overall cost of healthcare.

In fact, I remember a rather embarrassing speech given by (at the time) French president Sarkozy, who was pointing out that unlike the US, in France, you don't need a credit card to get medical care, which was followed by a speech from the US French ambassador, who presented Mr. Sarkozy with a copy of the law that prohibited refusal of care by any public hospital.

Just for the record, I am not suggesting that the US healthcare system isn't in bad need of repair, it certainly is.

I'm only pointing out that my understanding is that it's actually illegal to refuse treatment - at public hospitals anyway, and that has traditionally had a more-than-non-zero impact on the overall cost of healthcare in the US.
They have to "medically stabilize" you, nothing more. They aren't required to provide you with non-stabilzing continuing care, something that's usually needed with patients with a mental illness. I remember that interchange with Sarkozy and I felt that both he and the US ambassador (?) were inaccurate in their comments.

I think one of the problems in the US is that accessing medical services is just too darn complex. It's a challenge for people without mental illness to do it, as we've seen from countless threads on here. Imagine trying to negotiate the whims of Medicaid and/or insurance exchanges when you do have significant mental issues? It's hardly a surprise that many give up trying. At least with the NHS you can just roll up at a medical facility.

Last edited by Giantaxe; Nov 27th 2014 at 2:45 pm.
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Old Nov 27th 2014, 4:38 pm
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Default Re: When you moved here, did you notice right away that poverty is more apparent here

Originally Posted by RICH
No. Poverty is not more apparent to me in US than it was in UK.
I agree. It depends where you drive/ travel in relation to where the poor people live. I see plenty of poor people in poor quality housing, including really $4!tty trailer parks, but there were parts of London, esp SE London that were every bit as bad, and I seen people living in appalingly bad conditions in cities in the UK, notably including Manchester and Glasgow, where I have seen people living in houses boarded up and awaiting demolition.
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Old Nov 27th 2014, 5:00 pm
  #103  
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Default Re: When you moved here, did you notice right away that poverty is more apparent here

There are people in both countries who live with an outdoor toilet and no hot water.
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Old Nov 27th 2014, 5:04 pm
  #104  
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Default Re: When you moved here, did you notice right away that poverty is more apparent here

And, just North of Los Angeles, homes with no water.
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Old Nov 27th 2014, 5:12 pm
  #105  
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Default Re: When you moved here, did you notice right away that poverty is more apparent here

Originally Posted by WriterChick
There are people in both countries who live with an outdoor toilet and no hot water.
That's not all that unusual to find here either, but it's not necessarily impoverishment, it's more oft a refusal to live in the 21st century. No, I'm not joking. The mindset of certain remnants of the Franco generation is, well, a bit confusing at times. But in some ways, they're better off

Yet there are plenty of examples of those who simply can't afford anything better. Especially in the south, where unemployment is still as high as 40% in some areas.
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