Sally Redux

Are you serious? You don't think an untreated homeless person counts as 'poor'?

Hotscot

Exactly, and therefore they may be officially below the poverty line.
It's unfortunate that that's allowed.

Michael

The OECD definition of homeless is anyone that does not have permanent housing. Therefore at anyone time, anyone on the streets, living in shelters, living in hotels, living in cars, or living in any other temporary shelter is classified as homeless. However from all indications, well over 90% of the homeless in the US that are on the streets are either mentally ill, alcoholics, or drug addicts.

Michael

Did I say that? They are part of the poor but the number of homeless accounts for less than 0.2% of the US population and the number on the streets are significantly less than that.

We have different laws than Europe and we can't force someone into treatment. Most of those that you see on the streets are eligible for Medicaid but they won't seek treatment.

Sally Redux

Oh well, that's all right then.

Michael

What do you do about it when the law says we can't force someone into treatment? I guess your prefer the European laws that force many into treatment or a mental institutions and don't care about their rights but you were vocal about the rights of someone suspected of being a terrorist.

It can always be justified that the reason that someone is forced into treatment or a mental institution is for their own good but is that really the case or is it that Europeans are more concerned about the perceived safety of the public and an orderly society at the cost of someone's rights?

penguinsix

They probably get "tip income" which is where the restaurant deducts from the minimum wage the amount of tips they get. Technically, when you add the tips and the paid income together you'll get the minimum wage.

It's pretty annoying but that's life in the restaurant trade.

Michael

The American federal government requires a wage of at least $2.13 per hour be paid to employees that receive at least $30 per month in tips. If wages and tips do not equal the federal minimum wage of $7.25 per hour during any pay period, the employer is required to increase cash wages to compensate.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tipped_wage_in_the_United_States

Sally Redux

Michael, you appear to get defensive at what you perceive as criticisms of the US.

There are a lot of people around in the US who look as if they are very poor, whichever way you slice it.

I am not convinced the people we are talking about are ever even offered medical treatment, let alone forced into it.

Why shouldn't I be 'vocal' about the rights of suspects?

Owen778

I'm intrigued by this. You're bandying around a lot of statistics, without ever showing where you've got them from.

I've seen homeless people who act very strangely in Houston, but I've seen that in London too, and I've also seen many people who seem normal begging at stoplights next to the freeways.

retzie

The first time I went to San Francisco I was horrified at the homelessness. When I tried to talk to Americans about it, they waved it off with totally useless remarks like "they congregate there because of the weather" and "they just don't want to get a job". I eventually learned of Reagan's wholesale closing of mental health facilities in the 80s that left the former inhabitants to their own devices, ie. living on the streets. There is a world of difference between in- and out-patient facilities; if someone needs the former, it isn't going to help a great deal if they can only get the latter (Medicaid or not).

That being said, I agree with the OP that homeless does not equate to being mentally ill. We talk ad nauseam on BE about the lack of social safety net in the US, so I would have thought it were relatively easy to see how someone may end up on the streets after a series of hardships.

Giantaxe

Even after the ACA, a majority of states don't cover for Medicaid adults without a household containing minor children. So I disagree that "most" are eligible for Medicaid.

Michael

Since you are vocal about the rights of a very small number suspected terrorists, why aren't you vocal about the rights of possibly close to 1 million people that are mentally disturbed and involuntarily institutionalized in Europe?

Most of the people on the streets are on SSDI and that includes Medicaid. In California, 100% of the cost for treatment under Medicaid is paid for by the state. The state cannot force them to get treatment. Parents try but once someone is over 18, parents also can't force them to get treatment. I suspect almost every mentally disturbed person on the streets have at one time been treated (usually brought to a doctor by their parents) but they go off their drugs and don't seek treatment.

About 10% of the homeless are veterans (not all are on the streets) and they have 100% free coverage through the VA if their income is below the poverty level. Above the poverty level, there is a small copay.

Would you be defensive if someone started a thread in the MBTTUK forum and everyone was saying that the British are a bunch of drunks since they can see a lot of drunks on the streets? The US homeless comprise (including the ones on the street and the ones without permanent shelter) about 1% of the people below the poverty level so to make an assumption that the 1% has some relationship to how people below the poverty level live is stretching it pretty far.

Hotscot

The OP particularly enjoys starting animated discussions then stepping back.

Michael

If a person is covered under SSDI (most mentally disturbed are that can't work), then they are covered by Medicaid if their income is below the poverty level. If their income is above the poverty level, they are covered under Medicare. Both of the above are true for all states.