Shmodin

I know there is already a thread about UK to US education, but this is slightly different.

We haven't received a definite offer yet, however, my husband is flying out to NY state to meet the team and see what's happening and for them to meet him in 2 weeks. If the deal is right the move is most likely to go ahead. We would be moving to the Binghampton area.

My daughter is 14, will be 15 and in year 10 when we relocate. Her dad and I split when she was a baby but she visits him usually once a month and speaks to him weekly. He lives around 1.5 hours away from us. He is not happy about the possible move and has major concerns about her education. My daughter is high achieving top set and has ambition to go into some type of animal medicine.

We are having a chat when he brings her home on Sunday. Can anyone advise me if this will drastically cause my daughter's education to fall. If our green card application is successful this could be a permanent move.

Now I'm questioning if this is the right decision.

Owen778

So, there are two issues here: The first is that the US and UK education systems work in very different ways. The curricula are different, and often learned at different times. There is information on this in the other thread, but I'm sure if you ask other specific questions people will try to help.

The second issue is that you will need to get permission to take your daughter to the US with you, which would mean removing her from her father. You either need his written agreement, or you would need a court order, which you would be unlikely to get if he sees her regularly. In his position, I would object to the move.

My family is in a related situation. My wife and step-children are American. The kids are happy enough with where we live, but my wife and I would probably move if we could. Unfortunately, we are basically stuck in Texas until the children pass age 18, as moving long-distance in the US or internationally would make it very difficult for them to see their father often enough, and we want them to maintain that relationship.

scrubbedexpat099

Could she stay with her father?

NatashaB

He could obtain a prohibited steps order to stop you moving, however, if he only sees her once a month you would most likely be able to argue that you could reasonably make up for any missed time by extending the time she visits him during holidays. You would probably be expected to cover the travel costs for her to go back and see him. Morally of course it's a different issue - it would be very difficult for him to maintain a close relationship with her, stay involved with her schooling etc, if she's so far away and he can't afford to visit her. What happens if she doesn't want to go or he refuses to give permission - would you be happy if she remained in the UK and lived with him while you moved?


Schooling wise - the curriculum is obviously different. Some kids in US schools will already have started working towards advanced placement exams to gain them college credit and make them look more appealing when applying for college, and earning credit towards their eventual GPAs. Her UK schoolwork may not count towards anything for these. Are you financially able to fund her through college? it could potentially cost you 100k plus, if you are on a reasonable salary you are unlikely to get much in the way of financial aid.

Shmodin

Thank you for your replies. Just to make it clear, my daughter's father has never made a single decision with regards to any part of her schooling. He has never asked about parents evening or questioned why I sent her to a different secondary school than her friends. She would not choose to live with him as his job is armed forces and can take him away for long periods of time. Monthly contact is when he is available and not always consistent. When he is away my daughter's stepmother does not get in touch.

Will my daughter fall behind If we relocate, and will that impact on her career choice. I need to meet with her dad and be confident in what I tell him.

NatashaB

Well US schools start a year later (my son is 5 in August and will start Kindergarten in September, but would have started reception last year if he was in the UK), so if she goes into an age appropriate year she may find herself repeating things she's already done. Alternatively, you could place her a year ahead (US schools tend to be a little more flexible than UK ones on this, some kids are held back and some start a year earlier than their official start year) so she is in a grade with other kids who have completed the same number of years of school as her. Not really an issue either way unless she plans to come back to the UK and re-integrate back into UK school, I guess. They study different subjects, have a different curriculum, and the focus of things like history, government and social science lessons will obviously be more US-based than what she's learned so far.


If you work out what grade she will be in based on her age, you can probably find information online about what that grade consists of and what will be expected of her. I would expect that there will be some subjects she needs to study with some help from you, so that she is on a similar level to her classmates. Does she plan to return to the UK for university? (if so, you may have to argue your case for not paying international student fees, since you haven't been resident in the UK) or remain in the US? (in which case you will need to plan how to finance the cost of US tuition, which is very expensive).

Shmodin

Thank you Natasha, I'll try and find the curriculum on line.

Jerseygirl

You will still need his notorized written permission...or a court order.

TBH I would not move a child of that age out of the U.K. educational system.

jjmb

If she is as bright as you say, she will cope with a move despite the vast difference in the education system. We moved my daughter to Texas when she was 15 and although it was difficult, she managed to graduate from high school early and now has a very successful career in Austin.
There are other posters who have children who moved over at that age with varying experiences. The important thing to understand is that the curriculum over here is very different and for some kids that will be hurdle they cannot handle at this crucial stage in their lives. My son who was 13 when he came over here, never coped with school over here, barely getting his high school diploma but he had other issues which might have become apparent in Scotland if we had stayed there. College was a disaster for him with requirements in his 1st 2 yrs he had no interest in, so he made no effort.
I would read other people's experiences and talk constantly to your daughter, making it clear that it will require a lot of sacrifice from her. If boarding school is an option I would broach that with her.
The other thing to consider is while you are on a visa, you can argue for home fees in the UK, once you make a gc application, she will be considered an international student if she applies to a UK university. Its possible she could claim residency with her father 's home address despite living in the US.

PF who has a daughter who came over at that age, will no doubt give some valuable insights for you as things have changed in the 16 yrs since we arrived in TX.

robin1234

You mention your daughter's interest in veterinary medicine - NYS is definitely the place for that being an agricultural state. There are several very highly regarded programs in SUNY schools, vet tech and vet science.

Cornell University is pretty close to Binghamton, Cornell has a school of veterinary medicine

lizzyq

We moved our sons nearly 2 years ago. The elder (now 18) took his GCSEs just before the move and was able to have those credited towards his high school graduation requirements. He has done the last 2 years of US high school (junior & senior years) and got his head down and worked hard from the get go and has maintained a good GPA. However he is heading back to the UK for university and has found it a heavy workload to take enough AP courses to fulfill the UK entry requirements for his chosen course/universities.

Our younger son (now 16) started US high school with his peer group and, after receiving a short sharp shock when he found that every homework counted towards his GPA, has settled in very well and is also making sure he takes enough advanced classes to graduate high school with ease in another 2 years time.

I would think your daughter would need to go straight into the AP classes wherever she plans to take her degree so I would advise that you look very closely at what range of advanced courses the high schools in and around Binghampton offer and choose your place of residence accordingly. My opinion would also be that she stays in the UK long enough to take her GCSEs before moving to the USA, even if that means lodging with a school friend for a few weeks/months. The fact that our elder son had his GCSEs made applying to UK universities much easier.

Good luck with it all!

kodokan

Differences in the education systems... let's see...

The US is designed to be completely broad-based throughout high school (and even into the first 2 years of college, where there will continue to be general education requirements regardless of a student's major). This is a key cultural difference - if your child is an all-rounder, this will very much suit her; is she's been eagerly awaiting the day she can dump anything requiring an essay and just do maths and science for A levels, she will be very disappointed.

Graduation requirements vary by state and by school district, but for example my son is required, during his 4 years of study, to collect the following credits as a minimum for graduation:

- 4 units of English
- 4 units of Math
- 4 units of Science
- 4 units of Social Studies
- 3 units of a foreign language
- 1 unit of Fine Art
- 1 unit of IT
- 1 unit of PE
- 1/2 units in Speech, Personal Finance, Health

Each unit refers to taking a class of an entire school year; the 1/2 units are semester classes. They usually correspond to one per school year, but not necessarily - my son is taking Physics and AP Chemistry next year (an AP class in a subject is like an A level), so will receive two Science credits in one year. He will then have 4 credits for Science so could not take it in his final year if he wanted (but I imagine he will due to personal interest).

At his school, there are 7 class periods each day (kids do the same timetable every day for the year). So over the 4 years, he has to plan a course of study for 28 possible units, to make sure he includes enough to tick off the list above, at least. Going further is fine - he is starting his 4th unit of French next year (selective colleges like as much foreign language as possible), and will no doubt do extra Social Studies as well as the sciences (he's planned AP classes in Euro History and Psychology, for 'fun').

So your challenge will be that your daughter will have missed the first year of a 4 year program, so you'll need to ensure she receives credit towards her graduation for having done a year of English, Math, Science, some sort of history, anything else you can show as relevant. They're looking for equivalency, as far as I understand it - 3 lessons of English a week for a 1.5 to 2 hours a time will be viewed as the same as an American year of 1 hour daily lessons, say. Whereas you might be pushed to argue that once a week Games fulfills the PE requirement which the US kids would've been doing daily.

You'd need to provide copies of her course of study/ curriculum, especially for the Core 4 academic subjects, so the US school would be confident stamping her off as having completed a suitable course of study for '9th grade'. The school will be issuing her transcript and awarding her a diploma, so have some skin in the game.

This is all completely doable, and you won't be the first family to arrive from overseas. But it usually requires some parental drive, to make sure you contact likely schools and discuss with them how they handle incoming foreign students; often there is one school in an area which is better/ more familiar with it. Schools here are almost always allocated based on addresses, and once you've rented a place, then THAT is your child's school, regardless of your preference.

kodokan

So your first challenge will be getting recognition for previous work. After that, the next issue will be getting recognition for future work, ie, managing the class level into which your child will be placed going forward.

Most schools have various academic levels depending on the child's aspirations, but somewhere there'll be a college-bound track, consisting of more demanding Honors classes or the AP ones I mentioned earlier. It's expected that a student heading for college will be in Honors/ AP classes for at least some of her subjects, especially the ones in which she has a personal interest or is very strong. Grades from such classes are 'weighted' so an A or B in them is worth more for the overall GPA than an A or B in a regular class.

Entry into these classes is usually touted as being dependent on a prerequisite or having completed a lower level class in the same subject with an A or a strong B, or having put in a stellar performance in the previous year's end-of-year state testing. In practice, though, they'll let a student in if the parent asks firmly enough, and if the child seems keen and competent. Timing can sometimes matter - my son changed high schools this year as a result of us moving from Arizona to Ohio, and since we arrived just a few days before the school year began, he wasn't permitted to join the AP US History class even with his previous school grade an A in of Honors World History, because he hadn't completed the summer assignment which was going to form a large part of the first semester grade. (I could probably have pushed this and got him an extension - we did this for his forthcoming English class - but he's not that keen on US history so it wasn't that important to us; he's instead currently breezing through the regular US history class with scant effort or interest )

She will HAVE to make sure she's in a path that can lead to AP science (and ideally math) classes, for her future career plan; this will be essential for not only entry to colleges here, but if she returns to the UK then a US high school diploma will NOT get her in. This isn't because the UK is 'better', it's just a question of depth - a UK 16-18 year old studying only Chemistry, Physics and Maths for 2 years can go a heck of a lot further into the subjects than a US student who's also doing English, History, Art, PE, etc etc. So entry to a UK university will require 3-5 AP exam passes, because the AP classes are more rigorous and fast-paced, and cover something around an AS to low A level amount of material (regular classes will be somewhat comparable to a GCSE in content, I think). The alternative would be to do a Foundation year at a UK uni, before joining the regular degree course.

Most AP classes are done during the 11th and 12th grades by 16-18 year olds, so she won't have missed out. But there may be some lower level courses that would have to be covered off first - regular Biology before AP Biology, backfilling Algebra 1 before moving into Algebra 2, etc. This may involve some creativity like taking two math credits in one year, or doing a summer school class at some point. US high schools have counsellors who are very knowledgable (and, if you're lucky, extremely helpful) about how best to plan a course of study to meet certain goals.

kodokan

This is very good advice, I think. If she wants to return to the UK, not having GCSEs will be an ongoing pain for uni entry, and some jobs have a knee-jerk requirement for 'GCSE Maths and English' even from people who have advanced degrees. I imagine it'd also be much simpler to get GCSE grades credited in the US, when the entire curriculum and her performance against it are easily demonstrated.

It may also be a selling point for her father's concerns, that you'll keep her in the UK until she has them, and move to the US for the 'A level' years. That way, it'll be harder for him to argue that you're moving her at a critical stage and derailing her educational prospects.

Shmodin

Thank you lizzyq and kodokan, that was what I was looking for. You have been really helpful. Lots to look in to and talk about.