robin1234

I believe you won't get anything from the US SS, as you need a minimum of 40 credits, ten years, to qualify for SS. As for the US UK agreement, that would have helped you if you needed your UK credits bulked up - but it looks like you'll have full UK credits when you retire, so you don't need the transfer of the U.K. Credits...

MidAtlantic

The OP has not worked here since 1991 so he is not going to have a US credit report is he?

findthespot

Not sure if the above is correct Robin. I agree that the right to "bulk up" credits under the US/UK totalisation agreement will not apply to me as I do not need to do so. But, under the US/UK agreement I should be entitled to some form of retirement income. albeit modest, so long as I spend more than 18 months working and paying taxes in the US, which I did.

I have come across the article below which is highly informative in this regard, and affirms my belief that I am entitled to some retirement income form the US. I just want to know how to obtain a forecast of my entitlement. If I was a cynic, I would be inclined to think that such an entitlement is not widely publicised to help respective governments save money. If that is the case, it is a poor attitude given the ever increasing globalisation in work practices.

https://www.theguardian.com/money/20...ement.pensions

morpeth

Did you set up account ? If you set up account it shows which earnings have been credited and any estimated earnings.

morpeth

Not suggesting it would show any credit information, but evidently social security uses outside firm or connection to credit reports to generate questions to confirm identity. For example I signed up for an account, and one of questions asked whether I had lived in a certain address 20 years ago- so I think getting that report would help setting up account and getting more accurate information.

Giantaxe

The reciprocal agreement will allow him to use UK credits to qualify for US SS. His actual payment will be based on the limited number of actual contributions he made, but of course it's better than nothing...

robin1234

Ah yes, of course. For some reason I was only thinking in the opposite direction. But wouldn't the limited amount of US SS then be subject to WEP?

Giantaxe

Yes, it would - likely 50% of the small amount the OP qualifies for.

Asg123

Yes, I once entered some numbers on an online calculator and it came to around 50%- actually about 55% for a full WEP reduction, meaning a SS payment of about 45% of what it would be without WEP.

Giantaxe

I think I got this incorrect... WEP may in fact wipe out the entire small amount.The 50% limit is on the non-SS pension, not the SS, so a very small SS payment coupled with a full UK pension could completely eliminate the former.

findthespot

Thx for ongoing input. it is obviously not as straightforward as I had imagined ! That said, I was told approx 5 years ago by the SSA team in the London US embassy that I would definitely be entitled to some retirement benefit and they quoted a figure of less than $100 per month as a ballpark estimate based on my earnings over a 3 year period and under the US/UK reciprocal agreement. Again the article below appears to confirm that is the case :

https://www.theguardian.com/money/20...ement.pensions

In effect I am simply trying to get a more up to date and accurate estimate given my current circumstances, and from whom i should obtain it, and details of how said forecast is computed.

I was told by the SSA team in London that my meagre US retirement benefit is paid in addition to a full UK pension, and why shouldn't it be !? . To suggest I would be entitled to nothing due to WEP seems a bit harsh, particularly given that the % WEP deduction appears to be capped at 50% assuming that one retires, or claims benefit, at the full US retirement age of just less than 67 . I am not even clear how or why the WEP would affect me. The SSA website states the following in respect of WEP :

.... This (WEP) provision can affect you when you earn
a pension from an employer who didn’t withhold
Social Security taxes and you qualify for Social
Security retirement benefits from
work in other jobs for which you did pay taxes.
The Windfall Elimination Provision can
apply if:

• You reached 62 after 1985; or
• You first became eligible for a monthly
pension based on work where you didn’t pay
Social Security taxes after 1985. This rule
applies even if you’re still working.

I fail to see how any of the above applies to a UK citizen who a) worked for a US employer for 30 months and paid social security taxes throughout that period, and b) can benefit from the US/UK reciprocal agreement - which i understand states for my circumstances that so long as a UK based claimant has earned more than 6 credits then they are entitled to some US retirement benefit, even it is only a meagre sum. I have 12 credits.

Gee, this makes my day job in rocket science (I kid not!) seem easy !

findthespot

Thx for ongoing input. This matter is obviously not as straightforward as I had imagined ! That said, I was told approx 5 years ago by the SSA team in the London US embassy that I would definitely be entitled to some retirement benefit and they quoted a figure of less than $100 per month as a ballpark estimate based on my earnings over a 3 year period and under the US/UK reciprocal agreement. Again the article from the UK Guardian Newspaper (no fake news in that publication !) - see link in my last post - appears to confirm that I am entitled to a modest monthly retirement sum.

In reality I am simply trying to get a more up to date and accurate estimate given my current circumstances, and from whom I should obtain it, and details of how said forecast is computed.

I was told by the SSA team in London that my meagre US retirement benefit can be paid in addition to a full UK pension, and why shouldn't it be !? To suggest I would be entitled to nothing due to WEP seems a bit harsh, particularly given that the % WEP deduction appears to be capped at 50% assuming that one retires, or claims benefit, at the full US retirement age of just less than 67 . I am not even clear how or why the WEP would affect me. The SSA website states the following in respect of WEP :

.... This (WEP) provision can affect you when you earn
a pension from an employer who didn’t withhold
Social Security taxes and you qualify for Social
Security retirement benefits from
work in other jobs for which you did pay taxes.
The Windfall Elimination Provision can
apply if:

• You reached 62 after 1985; or
• You first became eligible for a monthly
pension based on work where you didn’t pay
Social Security taxes after 1985. This rule
applies even if you’re still working.

I cannot see how the above provision applies to a UK citizen who a) worked for a US employer for 30 months and paid social security taxes throughout that period, and b) can benefit from the US/UK reciprocal agreement - which I understand states for my circumstances that so long as a UK based claimant has earned more than 6 credits then they are entitled to some US retirement benefit, even it is only a meagre sum. I have 12 credits.

Gee, this makes my day job in rocket science (I kid not!) seem easy !

Pulaski

Because when you were working in the UK your employer "didn’t withhold Social Security taxes" (why would they, they're in the UK ).

You are definitely what I would call collateral damage, caught up in something that was designed for a entirely different purpose (to catch people who worked in state or local government jobs that are not covered by Social Security).

findthespot

Yes, Pulaski .... I think I get what you say. Although it is far from clear, I think I can now see how the WEP system would apply to my circumstances; principally because I have less than 20 years of substantial earnings in the US (in fact I have 3 years).

There are some worked examples earlier in this thread (well from back in 2013) and using those I will attempt to do a rough calculation to project what, if anything, I may receive from Uncle Sam (or is it now Uncle Donald).... and post my calcs for comment/ feedback.

This whole conundrum reminds me of the times when due to my so called exceptional skills I was given a US green card immediately after returning to the UK, but I had to file a US tax return for a couple of years (no tax ever paid due to prevailing tax treaty) in order to maintain my right to use or keep my "green card status". I never actually bothered to use my green card as I decided to, and prefer to, live in blighty and in effect just sent my green card back. What I recollect from that time, however, was the ludicrously complicated US tax returns and guidance notes. The returns took almost two full days to complete. If anything put me off going back to the States it was those bloody tax forms ! This so called simple calculation re my rights to a US retirement benefit seems to be a similar and unnecessarily convoluted system. The UK tax system has always appeared to be far more straightforward - an annual tax return takes me two hours max. Surely over the past 20 plus years the US tax system must now be far, far simpler and returns easy to compile, and submit ?

Anyhow, I'll attempt to calculate what I may be due from the SSA, inc allowing for the vagaries of the exchange rates, options to defer receipt of UK based pensions, and report back in due course. Before I start, however, how the hell do I calculate my baseline US retirement benfit entitlement, before a WEP reduction !? FYI my US "substantial" earnings in 89-91 were a mere $17K ('89), $43K ('90), and $40K ('91).

Asg123

This is what I understand of WEP. The UK state pension is not intended to favour the well-paid, so it's based on years and there are no issues. The US SS system is intended to favour the well-paid, but less than proportionally to their pay, so it's based on pay x years, but a high factor is applied at first, then lower factors with increasing pay x years. What WEP is supposed to do, as I understand it, is where years is small and an applicant has another pension from the missing years, is to apply a low factor instead of the high factor. So findthespot should get SS, but it'll be reduced by about 55% from what it would've been without WEP.