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Transferring UK pension to US 401K!

Transferring UK pension to US 401K!

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Old Jan 15th 2013, 6:43 pm
  #31  
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Default Re: Transferring UK pension to US 401K!

Also, respectfully correcting post by md95065: it IS possible to transfer money from a previous employer's 401k plan to a new one with a new job. You can either take a rollover check (cheque) payable into a new fund, which is not taxed at the time of transfer, or you can take what is termed a withdrawal, in which case it may be taxable.
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Old Jan 15th 2013, 6:54 pm
  #32  
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Default Re: Transferring UK pension to US 401K!

Originally Posted by Slartybardfast
Try this: A list of 2013 HMRC approved QROPS...

http://www.hmrc.gov.uk/pensionschemes/qrops.pdf

I don't know what the procedure is for transferring, but at least it shows there are approved schemes in the USA.
Unfortunately the HMRC QROP status of a US pension fund is completely irrelevant to the IRS. You will not be able to transfer pension money into the US funds in the link above in any way other than that approved by the IRS.

Last edited by nun; Jan 15th 2013 at 7:35 pm.
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Old Jan 15th 2013, 6:57 pm
  #33  
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Default Re: Transferring UK pension to US 401K!

Originally Posted by Slartybardfast
Also, respectfully correcting post by md95065: it IS possible to transfer money from a previous employer's 401k plan to a new one with a new job. You can either take a rollover check (cheque) payable into a new fund, which is not taxed at the time of transfer, or you can take what is termed a withdrawal, in which case it may be taxable.
This is true, but the transfers must be from one IRS approved plan to another. You can rollover a lump sum into a 401k from another IRS qualified plan like a 401k, 403b etc even a 457. There is no way to make a lump sum payment to a 401k from a retirement account that is not setup under IRS regulations.

Last edited by nun; Jan 15th 2013 at 7:48 pm.
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Old Jan 20th 2013, 4:11 pm
  #34  
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Default Re: Successfully transferring UK pension to US 401K??

Originally Posted by True.2.form
Hi,

Does anyone have any positive experience with transferring their pension from the United Kingdom to an America 401K scheme?

I'm in the process of trying to succeed with this!

I am British and my wife is American, we live in Washington State.

When speaking with my UK pension broker they have explained that in order to transfer my plan to the US I have to find a Qualifying Recognized Overseas Pension Scheme or QROPS.

My wife's 401K is with Fidelity Investment and having spoken with them I've been told they are not able to oblige, citing UK/US policy and exchange rates being problematic.

I am positive this CAN be achieved but the method to this madness is something I have not figured out yet. Unlike the US, the UK will not permit policy holders to distribute part or all of their funds (even with high penalties) until retirement age, so its not as if I can even liquidate it and then transfer the funds overseas.

Nor will, from what I can gather, existing US 401K providers allow a husband to incorporate theirs with a wife's current policy.

Can anyone provide some hope here? - internet searches do provide sites with companies allegedly being able to help but they seem less than legally legitimate

Many thanks,

P
Only read so many replies to your query and thought the same. I have a couple of pensions in the UK which can not be touched until I retire and are frozen until I am 55.The funny thing about it is, they are North American based pensions or should I say invested into North American companies. As far as I am aware you have to start a new pension scheme, but if you find a way, please let us know.
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Old Jan 20th 2013, 5:06 pm
  #35  
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Default Re: Transferring UK pension to US 401K!

Don't forget that existing UK pension plans need to be reported every year on the FBAR, the 8938, the 8621, the 8833, the 3520 and the 3520-A depending which apply in a particular case.
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Old Jan 20th 2013, 5:48 pm
  #36  
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Default Re: Transferring UK pension to US 401K!

Originally Posted by Cook_County
Don't forget that existing UK pension plans need to be reported every year on the FBAR, the 8938, the 8621, the 8833, the 3520 and the 3520-A depending which apply in a particular case.
That is arguable. Some take the position that all UK pension plans, even SIPPs, are covered under the treaty.
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Old Jan 20th 2013, 11:09 pm
  #37  
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Default Re: Transferring UK pension to US 401K!

We need a volunteer to be the first one, it will not be me.
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Old Jan 21st 2013, 12:35 am
  #38  
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Default Re: Transferring UK pension to US 401K!

Originally Posted by nun
That is arguable. Some take the position that all UK pension plans, even SIPPs, are covered under the treaty.
..... A little more,

It is important that you know how any UK employer and employee pension contributions and gains are taxed by the IRS. Absent any tax treaty exclusions contributions and gains will be US taxable on a US citizen's 1040 and the alphabet soup of forms mentioned by Cook_County will have to be considered.
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Old Jan 21st 2013, 9:24 pm
  #39  
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Default Re: Transferring UK pension to US 401K!

I have not seen a legal opinion from any US lawyer suggesting that the treaty over-rides information return filing. There are no rulings from the IRS or any court suggesting this. Filing on this basis would be a very high risk stategy indeed and could lead to substantial penalties.
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Old Jan 21st 2013, 9:49 pm
  #40  
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Default Re: Transferring UK pension to US 401K!

Originally Posted by Cook_County
I have not seen a legal opinion from any US lawyer suggesting that the treaty over-rides information return filing. There are no rulings from the IRS or any court suggesting this. Filing on this basis would be a very high risk stategy indeed and could lead to substantial penalties.
I'm not suggesting that FBAR or 8938 would be affected by the treaty, but that if you make a successful claim under Article 18 all growth is US tax-free and that here are no trust form or PFIC filing requirements on an arising basis. When you take the money out, you pay tax at income tax rates the same as any US pension. Some professionals will file the PFIC and foreign trust forms and then exempt any income from taxation using the treaty. As ever competent professional advice is required as this is a tricky area.

Last edited by nun; Jan 21st 2013 at 9:58 pm.
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Old Jan 21st 2013, 11:53 pm
  #41  
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Default Re: Transferring UK pension to US 401K!

So this does not apply to final salary schemes?
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Old Jan 22nd 2013, 12:02 am
  #42  
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Default Re: Transferring UK pension to US 401K!

Originally Posted by Boiler
So this does not apply to final salary schemes?
Like all UK pensions, final salary schemes cannot be transferred to a US qualified plan. For such a scheme FBAR, PFIC and foreign trust forms aren't required, but 8938 is.
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Old Jan 22nd 2013, 12:20 am
  #43  
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Default Re: Transferring UK pension to US 401K!

So how would you deal with a UK State Pension under 8938 for example.

It would appear from a cursory glance that final salary schemes not in payment are excluded.
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Old Jan 22nd 2013, 12:53 am
  #44  
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Default Re: Transferring UK pension to US 401K!

Originally Posted by Boiler
So how would you deal with a UK State Pension under 8938 for example.

It would appear from a cursory glance that final salary schemes not in payment are excluded.
8938 is still in flux, but on the first iteration UK state pension is not reportable on 8938. Pensions are reportable on 8938.
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Old Jan 22nd 2013, 2:36 am
  #45  
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Default Re: Transferring UK pension to US 401K!

So why is the State Pension not reportable and all? others are?
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