MarylandNed

Because they are two different, unrelated documents with their own rules & procedures. The ability to obtain a driver's license is related to residency - not citizenship. The ability to obtain a passport is related to citizenship - not residency.

Biblot

Hi all, new to britishexpats.com and this is my first post (gulp!).
Was interested to read posts and threads for lots of reasons....
For some background; I've been in the US for 18 years now, and as a permanent resident for 15 of them. I've lived in 3 different states (MD, NY and now NC) and DC. Originally got my US driving license in DC, for which I only had to produce my UK license and do the written and eyesight tests, after that each time I moved I "traded" my old license for new, meaning I have now had 4 US licenses and never had to sit a US driving test behind the wheel of a car (a little worrying maybe!?). Somewhere along the way I have misplaced/misfiled/lost my UK license which was one of the big pink "fold out, doesn't expire until you are 70 pieces of paper" (careless I know but 9 different residences, 3 states and the district, married now with 2 kids meant a lot of boxes). A couple of years ago I was thinking I ought to replace my lost license but when I went to fill out the forms it said (basically) what others are saying, that you can't be a "permanent resident" somewhere else and have a UK license (I have no idea how it works for people with dual nationality who live in 2 different countries for 6 months each year). So, long and short of it I didn't replace it and when in the UK I now drive on my US/NC license.

But enough history, fast forward to visiting my parents last month. Arrived at Gatwick and rented a car on my US/NC license. Out of boredom while they were filling out forms I asked at the desk (Europcar) if it was cheaper to rent with a UK license and was told no, it was the same price regardless of whether I took their insurance or used the insurance I got with my credit card.

Anyway, no problems with trip, rental etc except when I got home and found a nice letter from the car rental company telling me a local constabulary had a camera that snapped me (or rather my rental car) driving 36 in a 30mph and gave me a "notice of intended prosecution". I don't really have any excuses (other than being too used to driving 35 in most of the US) but was thinking, I can't be the only one who has had this happened to them? I've looked at the boards and lots of discussions seem to revolve around US citizens driving in UK and what happens if they are on a US license beyond the 12 month period they have to apply for a UK license.

While I'm sure this will all unfold with time (and I'll post follow ups as it unfolds) a couple of questions that others might be able to answer based on their experiences...
- Should I anticipate an actual "fine" being sent to me by the local police force? There seems to be some confusion out there about whether you can be issued a fixed penalty notice (FPN) without a UK license or whether it automatically gets bounced up to the magistrate court if the rental was on a foreign and/or non-EU license.
- From what I am reading it doesn't appear the "points" can or will be applied to my US/NC license?
- Would/could they pull up my "drive until you are 70" UK license from my UK passport (which I'm pretty sure I had to show at the car rental desk) and issue a FPN to that and request I pay the fine? If so I don't know how I'd find out as my license was at my parents old address and I'm sure any mail sent there to me would be "return to sender-not known at this address". As mentioned, I never updated my UK address as I havent had/used my license since my parents moved 7-8 years ago.

Hmmm, seems this post has gotten longer than I anticipated. As I say, I'm sure it will all unfold in the coming weeks and I have read some diverse opinions out there as to what the law says, means etc so I am asking more from the point of view of peoples actual experience(s).

Oh, I should also point out that I am not trying to "dodge the ticket" and will pay it if it turns up and/or take the points to my UK license, I'm more wondering what the series of events are; will I get an actual ticket? will they issue a FPN to my UK license? Will they default to a magistrate court? If it all ends up getting lost if sent to an old address in the UK will it cause problems down the line? (i.e. the system wont let me change my UK driving license address as a non-resident UK citizen).

Hope some folks can shed some light while I await the wheels of justice turning

ian-mstm

At this point, and FWIW, I suggest you do nothing until you hear again from the rental company with something more concrete than their intent to prosecute... which, BTW, is a common tactic. They hope you see the words "notice of intended prosecution" and that you read "notice of prosecution". They're not the same thing - but they're hoping you don't notice that.

Ian

TimNiceBut

I don't think the police really will make the connection that you also have a UK drivers license. Otherwise they'd have to add points to every John Smith's license all the time .

There's a good chance that the rental car company will just charge the fine on your credit card and that's it.

Bob

The points can't be applied to your US license.

The ticket they can send, or more likely the rental company will just take the money from your credit card.

scrubbedexpat099

I thought the rental company just had to supply your details and if they did that they were out of the loop.

Biblot

Thanks for your replies, I think you are right Boiler, the "notice of intended prosecution" I got from the police was actually sent to me by the rental company with an accompanying letter saying they were required to, and sent, my details to the police, and it was basically between them and me now as they'd met their legal obligations. I guess I'll have to wait and see if there is a letter waiting from the police when I get home. Seems half the forums I've seen seem to think it bounces straight up to a magistrates court and the other that they don't try and enforce the ticket.

- Hadn't thought of that TimNiceBut; but wondered in the age of all these biometric chips in passports and what not whether they would link the passport ID at the car rental to some kind of central file with individual data (e.g. health, driving, immigration, retirement, tax status etc).

Oh, and the rental company charged my 30 pounds + VAT for sending the police the info. I wonder if I can claim the VAT back for leaving the country ;-)

ALBRUZ

Dont Know if this helps but last time in the uk (6 months ago)I also got a speeding ticket whilst driving my daughters car for which I was insured

Anyway the police sent my daughter a letter and she informed them that she was not the driver and gave them my name and USA address as the driver

A few weeks later I received a letter at my USA address from the Humberside Police asking if I was the driver. I sent the letter back to them admitting that I was the driver and put in the letter my Florida diving licence number and a photo copy of my Florida licence in the letter

A few more weeks pass and I get another letter from the Humberside police telling me that if I want I can go on a traffic course in the Uk for £94 to avoid the three penalty points or pay the £60 speeding fine and take the points.

I E-mail the Humberside Police saying that I will attend the course if they will pay for the return flight from the Usa to the Uk. Get an E-mail back from the Humberside police stating " you do not appear to be taking this matter seriously" . They just do not have a sense of humour at all

Anyway I send the letter back once again with a photocopy of my USA licence in it and a cheque for £60 thinking that will be the end of the matter

The cheque is cashed and then a few weeks later I receive another letter from the Humberside Police at my USA address saying that they know I have a British driving licence and if I dont send it into the dvla in Swansea with the cover sheet within 28 days they will cancel my licence. I have been non resident for 3 years by this time

Anyway send off the UK licence to Swansea with the counterpart which still has a uk address on it for a property in the Uk I still own and get it back at my UK address 2 weeks later with 3 points on my UK licence???????

Maybe the Humberside Police are not as switched on as other police forces regarding the validity of uk driving licences for non residents




Best Regards

Alan

kodokan

D you mind if I ask how you got insured for this? We're visiting family in the UK in a couple of months, and the parents have offered us use of their car which has an 'any driver' policy. We've assumed we won't be able to use it, as everyone here and elsewhere keeps saying that 'yes, but that's only if you're driving on a UK license'.

Jerseygirl

Your parents should contact their insurance company and explain the situation. Some insurance companies will...some will not. There may be a charge as you will be using your US driving licence. If you have ever had a UK DL I would mention that to them too. If they say yes...try to get it in writing.

kodokan

Thanks - will see if father-in-law can give it a try (although he's rather elderly, and gets a bit bamboozled by complicated systems nowadays... ). We did have UK licences, then swapped those in for Swiss ones (the UK ones are taken off you, and returned to the DVLA), and then took tests for our US ones. So physically we have US and Swiss ones, which do include a mention of them being UK original ones complete with UK licence numbers. I'm pretty sure though, that the Swiss ones are no longer valid once you're no longer a resident; we're only keeping them for souvenirs, and as evidence of being previously UK licensed.

It'll only for a few days anyway - probably easier to suck up the hire car cost. The rest of the time, we'll be using trains - it's staggeringly cheap if you book Advance tickets for the long distance stuff, plus we can also get a Family Railcard and knock another 1/3rd off. Even First Class will be cheaper than hiring cars to get about, and will include free food and drink, Wifi, newspapers, etc!

Jerseygirl

That sounds like a plan.

I prefer to rent a car rather than borrowing one...as things tend to happen to things you borrow.

ALBRUZ

Yes my daughter just called her insurance company and explained the situation and they included me on her Insurance for the 2 weeks I was in the uk

It cost 12 pounds not sure if all uk insurance companies do this

Regards

Alan

Biblot

Just an update and a few comments...
- It's now 4 weeks since I got notice from the car insurance company that they were going to charge me 30 pounds + VAT to provide my details to the police.
- With that said I also got a follow up letter from them to say my credit card company wouldn't allow the charge so had to deal with my credit card company declining it for "suspicious/fraudulent activity"
- So far nothing from the police re. the actual ticket/prosecution etc. Not sure how long it takes to send out/receive a ticket to a UK address but I'd assume there'll be a few weeks added to account for getting the info from the car hire company etc.
- re. Going onto parents insurance, I've also done that in the past. It used to be quite easy and just required them to make a quick call to let them know and pay a 10-15 pound one-off excess. The last time they went to do it they said it was an order of magnitude more difficult and had doubled in cost. And, as JerseyGirl mentioned, at least with a rental car if anything happened they can sort it out not my parents. Case in point this speeding ticket!
- Heading back to UK in a 4 weeks and will be looking to rent a car again so I'll update if anything happens at immigration.