Steve_

That section was struck down as was most of it.

JAJ

1. Many, if not most, SSA offices do not require ID to get in.
2. First time applications for U.S. passports (or passport cards) are made at designated U.S. Post Offices.
3. In exceptional cases, it would still likely be possible to enter a federal building without ID but may require additional screening.


A Canadian citizen living permanently in the U.S. would have a green card. Otherwise a Canadian Enhanced Drivers License (or enhanced provincial ID card) would likely be acceptable, or a NEXUS card.

Or a Canadian passport.

I'm not sure if Alberta's ID is RealID compliant - does it issue an enhanced drivers license/ID card?

Steerpike

So did you show them 'something with your photo on'?

Why - and why the distinction for internal flights? The 9/11 flights were all internal. Verifying identity of who boards internal flights seems equally appropriate. While it may not be a huge burden to a terrorist to acquire a fake ID, it may at least rule out casual nutjobs such as the 'underwear' bomber ... I'm not naive enough to think that a photo ID is going to eliminate terrorist activities on planes ... but showing photo ID just doesn't seem to be a big problem when it comes to boarding a plane.

I have a recollection that while going through domestic security at PHX, a dozy teenager in front of me with lots of piercings and tattoos on his body did not have a drivers license. The security guy rolled his eyes, asked him a bunch of questions, then sent him off to the side for additional questioning. I was surprised to see him later in the boarding area. So either he found some ID that was suitable, or they let him through without ID. I would not want to take this risk intentionally, myself, since it is clear that they slow you down at the very least ... and I'm almost always running at the last minute.

I keep my passport in a safe-deposit-box, and when I was a green card holder, I kept that there too - way too valuable (and too hard to replace) to risk carrying around all the time. I was a GC holder from 1985 until 2009 (when I got my US citizenship) and never once carried it around with me, unless I was scheduled to leave the country. I realize now that this was not legal, but I wasn't willing to risk carrying it.

JAJ

It is possible to have both a passport book and passport card.

Not legal, although generally not enforced. That said, it is strongly inadvisable for a GC holder to travel away from home, or in a border area, without GC in possession.

The future is that if a GC holder lives in a non-RealID compliant state, he or she will need to use the GC as the primary ID document to interact with the Federal government.

hungryhorace

Where do I start with this one?

1. The hijackers were legally allowed to carry weapons onto the plane.
2. The CIA was aware of a potential plot and had the leaders on their surveillance radar
3. Except they didn't think to let the FBI know
4. Two hijackers were already on a no fly watch list (added August 2001).

As a result checking the hijackers' ID wouldn't have mattered a jot as the American agencies weren't bothering to talk to each other due to politics & bureaucracy.

If you *really* believe checking a persons ID - which could be easily faked, especially given state sponsorship of terrorism (look how Israel routinely abuses other nations passports when carrying out murder) - would in some way stop 9/11 then I'm afraid you don't know much about nation security.

dunroving

Surely if ID wasn't required in order to board a plane or check in, you'd be able to fly using someone else's ticket (which AFAIK is not allowed)?

Also, you'd be able to fly on a ticket that had your name incorrectly written or spelled (and again IIRC, I have read many columns and posts over the years about people being unable to use a flight ticket because of silly accidents like spelling the name wrong on a ticket).

No??

hungryhorace

Very potentially, yes. However, my wider point is that thinking a TSA agent checking your ID which is prone to human failure (as happened with my wife recently; we had the same boarding pass in my name and the TSA never noticed, only before we were boarding did the airline notice!) is in some way making you safer is pretty naive.

A person or persons wishing to perform acts of 'terrorism' (the word was originally used to describe the actions of the state against its citizens interestingly enough), will always find a way through. Having an ID checked really serves limited purpose when recent events show us those who are wishing to cause harm have simply slipped under the surveillance radar so can ID or no ID, their name won't ping against a no fly list. Which, incidentally, if law enforcement had actually been using that DB correctly would have potentially stopped the attack on the Pentagon.

IMO - The best form of defence is the Israeli approach. Systematic profiling of fliers, based on ethnicity, race, name, and so forth. El Al is the safest airline in the sky because of these techniques.

Pulaski

Agreed, 100%, but dare I venture to point out that all of the above are completely pointless without a process to identify who is boarding the plane.

hungryhorace

Of course, but that process doesn't involve presenting a photo ID I believe.

materialcontroller

I don't have any problem with the purpose of carrying ID. I fly regularly within the British Isles (both domestic UK and to/from the ROI) and carry my passport when doing so - which, incidentally, is always checked at check-in, at the departure gate and again on-board the aircraft. It may also be checked during the security check as well.

Quite happy to use my passport or other ID to verify my identity in lots of other circumstances too. Can't really understand the fuss a lot of people make concerning having to prove *their* identity for various things.

hungryhorace

Because it's pretty pointless once you understand how little relevance them checking that ID is in preventing acts of atrocity.

durham_lad

I think you'll find that it does. After the interview by security you get a sticker on your passport which you have to present at the El Al check in desk.

hungryhorace

You've totally missed my point. Do you really think that the point in which you're 'checked' is when you arrive at the airport and present yourself for inspection? Come off it. Of course it isn't. The security services will (read: "should") be aware of the threat and will make the arrest at the appropriate time.

There is technology now being used in Israel (and being trialed in the US & UK I believe) that matches a persons body behaviour / facial expressions to a specific pattern which could warrant further inspection.

Bottom line: if you're relying on checking passengers at the airport to see if they're a security risk, then you're already too late.

durham_lad

I think you've also missed my point. You stated that you don't need a photo id to board an El Al plane, but the fact is that despite the extensive checking away from the desk you are still required to present a passport at check-in to prove who you are otherwise all the background checks and interviews for the person named on the ticket is useless if a different person turns up at the desk and presents a valid ticket.

hungryhorace

No, I have not. Never in fact.

To clarify: I was referring to the prior screen that is done before you arrive at the airport, NOT checking ID for when you board a plane.