REAL ID
Dec 31st 2014, 1:35 pm
#286
American Expat
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 7,598
Re: REAL ID
This NATO link discusses both electronic I-94 creation and OBIM exemptions for diplomats. So the claim that OBIM is a prerequisite to automated I-94 issuance is not correct.
US VISIT PROGRAM
What is US VISIT? The United States Visitor and Immigrant Status Indicator Technology Program (known as "US-VISIT") uses digital equipment to collect biometric information (digital fingerprints, photograph and "other biometric identifiers") to verify/confirm an individual's identity. These requirements are in addition to the standard US entry process in which basic information is gathered regarding an individual's identity and their visit to the United States.
Do I have to be fingerprinted and photographed when I enter the United States? NO. US Federal regulations governing US-VISIT exempts certain categories of non-immigrants from the requirements of the US-VISIT program, specifically the collection of biometric data. The exemptions include international personnel, members of the force and NATO international civilians, and their dependents, who are entering the United States pursuant to A-1, A-2, NATO-1 through NATO-6 visas, as well as certain other classes of exemptions that are not mentioned herein as they do not affect the personnel and their dependents mentioned herein.
Individuals who are accompanying NATO personnel such as housekeepers and nannies pursuant to NATO-7 or A-3 visas are not exempt from the collection of biometric data.
US VISIT PROGRAM
What is US VISIT? The United States Visitor and Immigrant Status Indicator Technology Program (known as "US-VISIT") uses digital equipment to collect biometric information (digital fingerprints, photograph and "other biometric identifiers") to verify/confirm an individual's identity. These requirements are in addition to the standard US entry process in which basic information is gathered regarding an individual's identity and their visit to the United States.
Do I have to be fingerprinted and photographed when I enter the United States? NO. US Federal regulations governing US-VISIT exempts certain categories of non-immigrants from the requirements of the US-VISIT program, specifically the collection of biometric data. The exemptions include international personnel, members of the force and NATO international civilians, and their dependents, who are entering the United States pursuant to A-1, A-2, NATO-1 through NATO-6 visas, as well as certain other classes of exemptions that are not mentioned herein as they do not affect the personnel and their dependents mentioned herein.
Individuals who are accompanying NATO personnel such as housekeepers and nannies pursuant to NATO-7 or A-3 visas are not exempt from the collection of biometric data.
Last edited by crg; Dec 31st 2014 at 1:38 pm.
Jan 3rd 2015, 11:30 pm
#287
Grumpy Know-it-all
Thread Starter
Joined: Jul 2010
Location: Calgary, Alberta
Posts: 8,928
Re: REAL ID
That's pretty old though, it hasn't been called US-VISIT for a long time. I mean the DHS page about Canadians without visas is out-of-date as well, Canadians in any other category than B-1 or B-2 (i.e. those who get an I-94) have to go through OBIM now. My understanding when they did that it was essentially because of that reason, the computer they're using after OBIM is the one that does the I-94.
Yes there may be a narrow exception for certain people with A and G visas (who probably still get paper I-94s I suspect, because they're few and far between), but there is for people under 14 and over 79. Generally speaking the two things are tied together, I suspect to simplify procedures.
Ah... right finally found them they're in 8 CFR 235.1(f)
So pretty much other than the A, G and NATO visas, you have to through OBIM and get an I-94 - except for Canadian visitors.
8 CFR 235.1(h) says:
(and numerous other exemptions, mainly for Mexicans who stay near the border)
And 8 CFR 212.1(a) says:
(blah blah NEXUS, blah blah certain other add-ons for the Bahamas and Caribbean.
It specifically says "other than" Canadian citizens who enter under 101(a)(15)(B) can be put through OBIM, so there's no discretion permissible, and if you read the whole section later on it says people paroled in have to be issued I-94s which would include Canadian visitors.
So yes, OBIM and I-94 are not tied together in the regulations, so as they read someone from Bermuda would go through OBIM and not get an I-94 but then it depends on what "classes of aliens" have been designated under (C).
But Canadians who aren't visitors do go through OBIM and get an I-94 contrary to what it says on the DHS website and the regulations clearly permit that.
The way that reads Canadian visitors clearly aren't supposed to be routinely issued I-94s. It specifically says: "not required".
Yes there may be a narrow exception for certain people with A and G visas (who probably still get paper I-94s I suspect, because they're few and far between), but there is for people under 14 and over 79. Generally speaking the two things are tied together, I suspect to simplify procedures.
US Federal regulations governing US-VISIT
(ii) The Secretary of Homeland Security or his designee may require any alien, other than aliens exempted under paragraph (iv) of this section or Canadian citizens under section 101(a)(15)(B) of the Act who are not otherwise required to present a visa or be issued Form I-94 (see §1.4) or Form I-95 for admission or parole into the United States, to provide fingerprints, photograph(s) or other specified biometric identifiers, documentation of his or her immigration status in the United States, and such other evidence as may be requested to determine the alien's identity and whether he or she has properly maintained his or her status while in the United States and/or whether he or she is admissible. The failure of an alien at the time of inspection to comply with any requirement to provide biometric identifiers may result in a determination that the alien is inadmissible under section 212(a) of the Immigration and Nationality Act or any other law.
(iii) Aliens who are required under paragraph (d)(1)(ii) to provide biometric identifier(s) at inspection may also be subject to the departure requirements for biometrics contained in §215.8 of this chapter, unless otherwise exempted.
(iv) The requirements of paragraph (d)(1)(ii) shall not apply to:
(A) Aliens younger than 14 or older than 79 on date of admission;
(B) Aliens admitted on A-1, A-2, C-3 (except for attendants, servants, or personal employees of accredited officials), G-1, G-2, G-3, G-4, NATO-1, NATO-2, NATO-3, NATO-4, NATO-5, or NATO-6 visas, and certain Taiwan officials who hold E-1 visas and members of their immediate families who hold E-1 visas unless the Secretary of State and the Secretary of Homeland Security jointly determine that a class of such aliens should be subject to the requirements of paragraph (d)(1)(ii);
(C) Classes of aliens to whom the Secretary of Homeland Security and the Secretary of State jointly determine it shall not apply; or
(D) An individual alien to whom the Secretary of Homeland Security, the Secretary of State, or the Director of Central Intelligence determines it shall not apply.
(iii) Aliens who are required under paragraph (d)(1)(ii) to provide biometric identifier(s) at inspection may also be subject to the departure requirements for biometrics contained in §215.8 of this chapter, unless otherwise exempted.
(iv) The requirements of paragraph (d)(1)(ii) shall not apply to:
(A) Aliens younger than 14 or older than 79 on date of admission;
(B) Aliens admitted on A-1, A-2, C-3 (except for attendants, servants, or personal employees of accredited officials), G-1, G-2, G-3, G-4, NATO-1, NATO-2, NATO-3, NATO-4, NATO-5, or NATO-6 visas, and certain Taiwan officials who hold E-1 visas and members of their immediate families who hold E-1 visas unless the Secretary of State and the Secretary of Homeland Security jointly determine that a class of such aliens should be subject to the requirements of paragraph (d)(1)(ii);
(C) Classes of aliens to whom the Secretary of Homeland Security and the Secretary of State jointly determine it shall not apply; or
(D) An individual alien to whom the Secretary of Homeland Security, the Secretary of State, or the Director of Central Intelligence determines it shall not apply.
8 CFR 235.1(h) says:
(h) Form I-94, Arrival-Departure Record. (1) Unless otherwise exempted, each arriving nonimmigrant who is admitted to the United States will be issued a Form I-94 as evidence of the terms of admission. For land border admission, a Form I-94 will be issued only upon payment of a fee, and will be considered issued for multiple entries unless specifically annotated for a limited number of entries. A Form I-94 issued at other than a land border port-of-entry, unless issued for multiple entries, must be surrendered upon departure from the United States in accordance with the instructions on the form. Form I-94 is not required by:
(i) Any nonimmigrant alien described in §212.1(a) of this chapter and 22 CFR 41.33 who is admitted as a visitor for business or pleasure or admitted to proceed in direct transit through the United States;
(i) Any nonimmigrant alien described in §212.1(a) of this chapter and 22 CFR 41.33 who is admitted as a visitor for business or pleasure or admitted to proceed in direct transit through the United States;
And 8 CFR 212.1(a) says:
(a) Citizens of Canada or Bermuda, Bahamian nationals or British subjects resident in certain islands.
(1) Canadian citizens. A visa is generally not required for Canadian citizens, except those Canadians that fall under nonimmigrant visa categories E, K, S, or V as provided in paragraphs (h), (l), and (m) of this section and 22 CFR 41.2. A valid unexpired passport is required for Canadian citizens arriving in the United States, except when meeting one of the following requirements:
(1) Canadian citizens. A visa is generally not required for Canadian citizens, except those Canadians that fall under nonimmigrant visa categories E, K, S, or V as provided in paragraphs (h), (l), and (m) of this section and 22 CFR 41.2. A valid unexpired passport is required for Canadian citizens arriving in the United States, except when meeting one of the following requirements:
It specifically says "other than" Canadian citizens who enter under 101(a)(15)(B) can be put through OBIM, so there's no discretion permissible, and if you read the whole section later on it says people paroled in have to be issued I-94s which would include Canadian visitors.
So yes, OBIM and I-94 are not tied together in the regulations, so as they read someone from Bermuda would go through OBIM and not get an I-94 but then it depends on what "classes of aliens" have been designated under (C).
But Canadians who aren't visitors do go through OBIM and get an I-94 contrary to what it says on the DHS website and the regulations clearly permit that.
The way that reads Canadian visitors clearly aren't supposed to be routinely issued I-94s. It specifically says: "not required".
Last edited by Steve_; Jan 4th 2015 at 12:11 am.
Jan 9th 2015, 10:53 pm
#289
Grumpy Know-it-all
Thread Starter
Joined: Jul 2010
Location: Calgary, Alberta
Posts: 8,928
Re: REAL ID
8 CFR 235.1(f) waives OBIM for all people in A, G and NATO classifications. But not the I-94, which would be electronic by air.
I find it somewhat interesting that CBP are actually prohibited in the regulations from doing OBIM for Canadian visitors, have to remember that one.
Also apparently Taiwanese diplomats come in as E-1, how odd.
Anyway on an actual REAL ID related point, USCIS have apparently stated recently to the AILA that anything a State issues which is a State ID or DL, including the non-REAL ID compliant ones, etc. are sufficient as a List B document on I-9.
So these IDs that say: "not for federal identification purposes" are in fact perfectly okay for certain federal identification purposes - but not anything where the law requires REAL ID, e.g. access to the controlled area of a federal building.
Jan 10th 2015, 12:15 am
#290
American Expat
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 7,598
Re: REAL ID
Yes I was going by the CFR you quoted in that requirements can be "waived" but reading it more carefully that is just the visa requirement, not OBIM.
8 CFR 235.1(f) waives OBIM for all people in A, G and NATO classifications. But not the I-94, which would be electronic by air.
I find it somewhat interesting that CBP are actually prohibited in the regulations from doing OBIM for Canadian visitors, have to remember that one.
Also apparently Taiwanese diplomats come in as E-1, how odd.
Anyway on an actual REAL ID related point, USCIS have apparently stated recently to the AILA that anything a State issues which is a State ID or DL, including the non-REAL ID compliant ones, etc. are sufficient as a List B document on I-9.
So these IDs that say: "not for federal identification purposes" are in fact perfectly okay for certain federal identification purposes - but not anything where the law requires REAL ID, e.g. access to the controlled area of a federal building.
8 CFR 235.1(f) waives OBIM for all people in A, G and NATO classifications. But not the I-94, which would be electronic by air.
I find it somewhat interesting that CBP are actually prohibited in the regulations from doing OBIM for Canadian visitors, have to remember that one.
Also apparently Taiwanese diplomats come in as E-1, how odd.
Anyway on an actual REAL ID related point, USCIS have apparently stated recently to the AILA that anything a State issues which is a State ID or DL, including the non-REAL ID compliant ones, etc. are sufficient as a List B document on I-9.
So these IDs that say: "not for federal identification purposes" are in fact perfectly okay for certain federal identification purposes - but not anything where the law requires REAL ID, e.g. access to the controlled area of a federal building.
The E-1 Taiwan TECRO pseudo-diplomats are likely a byproduct of the US "One China" policy. PRC would not appreciate if the US recognized a head of state other than the one in Beijing. They get admitted D/S too.
Jan 14th 2015, 10:12 pm
#291
Grumpy Know-it-all
Thread Starter
Joined: Jul 2010
Location: Calgary, Alberta
Posts: 8,928
Re: REAL ID
Well I realized that, just thought E-1 was a weird alternate choice.
Anyway I quoted the bit dealing with who is exempt above:
So yeah, A-3 and G-5 would be subject to OBIM.
Anyway I quoted the bit dealing with who is exempt above:
(B) Aliens admitted on A-1, A-2, C-3 (except for attendants, servants, or personal employees of accredited officials), G-1, G-2, G-3, G-4, NATO-1, NATO-2, NATO-3, NATO-4, NATO-5, or NATO-6 visas, and certain Taiwan officials who hold E-1 visas and members of their immediate families who hold E-1 visas
Jan 20th 2015, 2:08 am
#292
Grumpy Know-it-all
Thread Starter
Joined: Jul 2010
Location: Calgary, Alberta
Posts: 8,928
Re: REAL ID
Made a mistake earlier in the thread about the "beyond the border initiative", it was June 30th of last year they implemented the system allowing CBP and CBSA to see each other's entry records.
So that explains why the woman from CBP was saying it was pointless to change the policy on I-94s. CBP now know exactly when you exit to Canada as well as when you enter.
So that explains why the woman from CBP was saying it was pointless to change the policy on I-94s. CBP now know exactly when you exit to Canada as well as when you enter.
Feb 28th 2015, 11:46 pm
#293
Grumpy Know-it-all
Thread Starter
Joined: Jul 2010
Location: Calgary, Alberta
Posts: 8,928
Re: REAL ID
Arizona driver's license doesn't meet federal requirements
So let me get this straight, the Republicans enacted REAL ID, Arizona Republicans said it violated civil rights and now it is about to create a big mess. Even if they changed the law tomorrow, it will take years for everyone to change their ID.
Oh, and the Republicans created DHS and the Republicans now don't want to fund it, but that's a different subject...
So let me get this straight, the Republicans enacted REAL ID, Arizona Republicans said it violated civil rights and now it is about to create a big mess. Even if they changed the law tomorrow, it will take years for everyone to change their ID.
Oh, and the Republicans created DHS and the Republicans now don't want to fund it, but that's a different subject...
Mar 1st 2015, 12:52 am
#294
American Expat
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 7,598
Re: REAL ID
Arizona driver's license doesn't meet federal requirements
So let me get this straight, the Republicans enacted REAL ID, Arizona Republicans said it violated civil rights and now it is about to create a big mess. Even if they changed the law tomorrow, it will take years for everyone to change their ID.
Oh, and the Republicans created DHS and the Republicans now don't want to fund it, but that's a different subject...
So let me get this straight, the Republicans enacted REAL ID, Arizona Republicans said it violated civil rights and now it is about to create a big mess. Even if they changed the law tomorrow, it will take years for everyone to change their ID.
Oh, and the Republicans created DHS and the Republicans now don't want to fund it, but that's a different subject...
143 Dems voted for it in the House.
Mar 1st 2015, 1:06 pm
#295
American Expat
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 7,598
Re: REAL ID
DHS was created with a vote of 90 to 9 and 295 to 132. Both veto proof majorities. It that any veto was expected anyway. DHS was likely a really bad idea anyway as seen by the problems across multiple agencies that were absorbed.
Jun 6th 2015, 10:28 pm
#296
Grumpy Know-it-all
Thread Starter
Joined: Jul 2010
Location: Calgary, Alberta
Posts: 8,928
Re: REAL ID
Border Patrol strikes again.
Watch the video on youtube. Okay she's being a bit shrill but that does appear to be a pretty major overreaction from the BP agent. If she is in fact impeding a federal officer, he could have just arrested her.
Watch the video on youtube. Okay she's being a bit shrill but that does appear to be a pretty major overreaction from the BP agent. If she is in fact impeding a federal officer, he could have just arrested her.
Jun 6th 2015, 10:30 pm
#297
Grumpy Know-it-all
Thread Starter
Joined: Jul 2010
Location: Calgary, Alberta
Posts: 8,928
Re: REAL ID
And just on this point that I missed - the Republicans came up with it clearly. Or are you arguing Sensenbrenner is not a Republican? He was the one who largely wrote it.
