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Obama's Executive Order

Obama's Executive Order

Old Nov 23rd 2014, 12:27 pm
  #61  
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Default Re: Obama's Executive Order

IMHO there are only two possible outcomes. The US will need to decide which one it prefers.

1. A large, growing contingent of undocumented, mostly Latin American immigrants. The illusion of being in control of the immigration system.

2. A very large, rapidly growing contingent of legal, mostly Latin American immigrants. The illusion of being in control of the immigration system.

Anything else is hogwash or populism. You cannot forcibly deport millions of people, nor can you prevent Latin Americans coming through the land border seeking a better life.
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Old Nov 23rd 2014, 3:35 pm
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Default Re: Obama's Executive Order

Originally Posted by Beaverstate
Lies, damned lies, and Obama’s deportation statistics - The Washington Post
From the Washington Post, not exactly a Right wing wingnut Sarah Palin lovin rag.
Thanks for the link. Hardly supports Obama's story line.

He said the system is broken but seemingly has no interest in fixing it.

There is a series about Prohibition on the TV. Get Deep and Dirty with the politics. Nothing has changed.
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Old Nov 23rd 2014, 6:41 pm
  #63  
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Default Re: Obama's Executive Order

Unfortunately amnesty, whether it is related to economy (repatriate fraudolent money), to immigration and to other aspects, it's always negative because it rewards bad behaviours. Until recently, I thought the USA was an inch above other Banana Republics where this type of government policies are very common.

Obama does not give a thing for the 4 or 5 millions illegals or whatever. He hopes (and dreams) that in a near future a substantial part of the population (former illegals included) will tilt now red solid red states like Texas, Florida and Georgia to blue states so that every prez. election until 2350 will be won by democrats.

From my prespective, that I wish someday to live legally in the USA, this is offensive. Why should those five millions have free work permits while me and others are having hard times to even think about going to the USA?
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Old Nov 23rd 2014, 6:52 pm
  #64  
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Default Re: Obama's Executive Order

Originally Posted by Ricky_85
Why should those five millions have free work permits while me and others are having hard times to even think about going to the USA?
Because they evaded the law for five years and had children? I think that was the gist of it...

Don't know if there's anything related to educational qualifications or financial resources taken into account.

Last edited by Hotscot; Nov 23rd 2014 at 6:55 pm.
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Old Nov 23rd 2014, 7:06 pm
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Default Re: Obama's Executive Order

Originally Posted by Ricky_85
Unfortunately amnesty, whether it is related to economy (repatriate fraudolent money), to immigration and to other aspects, it's always negative because it rewards bad behaviours. Until recently, I thought the USA was an inch above other Banana Republics where this type of government policies are very common.

Obama does not give a thing for the 4 or 5 millions illegals or whatever. He hopes (and dreams) that in a near future a substantial part of the population (former illegals included) will tilt now red solid red states like Texas, Florida and Georgia to blue states so that every prez. election until 2350 will be won by democrats.

From my prespective, that I wish someday to live legally in the USA, this is offensive. Why should those five millions have free work permits while me and others are having hard times to even think about going to the USA?
Because they are living in America and you are not is why rightly or wrongly they get the work permit. Because they are paying taxes and pressuring senators and getting pressure groups going and their communities voice is influencing the political landscapes and you do not. You have no say you do not live there.

It's not just a question of what to do about it when no one has the stomach for mass deportation nor for an amnesty/path to green/path to citizenship. It is also a question of if something is done how to prevent this from happening again in the future once you act definitively on the issue. And no one has that answer.

Last edited by johnnybrown532; Nov 23rd 2014 at 7:08 pm.
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Old Nov 23rd 2014, 7:13 pm
  #66  
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Default Re: Obama's Executive Order

Originally Posted by johnnybrown532
Because they are living in America and you are not is why rightly or wrongly they get the work permit. Because they are paying taxes and pressuring senators and getting pressure groups going and their communities voice is influencing the political landscapes and you do not. You have no say you do not live there.

It's not just a question of what to do about it when no one has the stomach for mass deportation nor for an amnesty/path to green/path to citizenship. It is also a question of if something is done how to prevent this from happening again in the future once you act definitively on the issue. And no one has that answer.


Actually US Senators and Representatives are elected by US citizens and represent said citizens. They do not represent illegals. Moreover, the illegals are paying chiefly sales taxes as I do when I'm vacationing.
And I agree with your second paragraph.
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Old Nov 23rd 2014, 7:19 pm
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Default Re: Obama's Executive Order

Originally Posted by Ricky_85
Actually US Senators and Representatives are elected by US citizens and represent said citizens. They do not represent illegals. Moreover, the illegals are paying chiefly sales taxes as I do when I'm vacationing.
And I agree with your second paragraph.
Some file tax returns. They have pressure groups influencing the political landscape as well Hillary Clinton and I think Ted Kennedy and other are big supporters for immigration reform irish illegals for example.
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Old Nov 23rd 2014, 8:22 pm
  #68  
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Default Re: Obama's Executive Order

Originally Posted by johnnybrown532
Because they are living in America and you are not...
Okay - I'm not going to let this pass.

They are not living in the US... they are existing in the US - and there's a big f**king difference. All those millions of undocumented aliens live day in and day out with the fear that some day US immigration is going to separate them from their families. Those, like Ricky_85 who do things legally, will never have that fear. You seem to think those folks are living the life of Riley - they're not. It's about fear, and intimidation, and living under the radar just one more day.


Because they are paying taxes and pressuring senators...
Generally speaking, no... they're not - no more than any tourist or other visitor.


You have no say you do not live there.
Neither do you - but you seem to have quite a bit to say about things.


Some file tax returns.
The vast majority do not.


... Hillary Clinton and I think Ted Kennedy and other are big supporters for immigration reform...
You know that Ted Kennedy has been dead for over 5 years, right? You bandy about US immigration as though you're chatting about football over a pint at the local pub! You seem to think in terms of winners and losers; that you can solve the US immigration problem by being an armchair referee; that your suggestion for an immigration bill is going to benefit the US - when all it will do is make the US reviled around the world; and that undocumented aliens are living out the American dream - but you have no clue how horrid life is for most of them.

You get your information 2nd and 3rd hand - because you, yourself, aren't even in the US. It's very easy to be moral and righteous when you can do so from a safe distance. I suggest you expend your energy try to solve the UK's problem with immigration - at least that might be something you know about first hand.

In my 12+ years on BritishExpats I have never put anyone on my twit list, but you're going to be the first. I'm amazed that others don't find you as vacuous a person as I do.

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Old Nov 23rd 2014, 8:24 pm
  #69  
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Default Re: Obama's Executive Order

Originally Posted by Ricky_85
Unfortunately amnesty, whether it is related to economy (repatriate fraudolent money), to immigration and to other aspects, it's always negative because it rewards bad behaviours. Until recently, I thought the USA was an inch above other Banana Republics where this type of government policies are very common.

Obama does not give a thing for the 4 or 5 millions illegals or whatever. He hopes (and dreams) that in a near future a substantial part of the population (former illegals included) will tilt now red solid red states like Texas, Florida and Georgia to blue states so that every prez. election until 2350 will be won by democrats.

From my prespective, that I wish someday to live legally in the USA, this is offensive. Why should those five millions have free work permits while me and others are having hard times to even think about going to the USA?
Because they are the parents of United States of America Citizens and you are not.
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Old Nov 23rd 2014, 8:31 pm
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Default Re: Obama's Executive Order

Originally Posted by johnnybrown532
Because they are living in America and you are not is why rightly or wrongly they get the work permit. Because they are paying taxes and pressuring senators and getting pressure groups going and their communities voice is influencing the political landscapes and you do not. You have no say you do not live there.

It's not just a question of what to do about it when no one has the stomach for mass deportation nor for an amnesty/path to green/path to citizenship. It is also a question of if something is done how to prevent this from happening again in the future once you act definitively on the issue. And no one has that answer.
Nobody wants mass deportation! The US have turned a blind eye to illegal immigrants coming into the US to do the crappy work for decades. It has worked very well.

There are fewer illegals coming to the US and instead going to Spain to take advantage of European working and living, which is arguably better for them than the US.
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Old Nov 23rd 2014, 8:44 pm
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Default Re: Obama's Executive Order

This thread is getting weird.
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Old Nov 23rd 2014, 8:46 pm
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Default Re: Obama's Executive Order

Originally Posted by ian-mstm
I'm amazed that others don't find you as vacuous a person as I do.
Oh, we do...
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Old Nov 23rd 2014, 9:01 pm
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Default Re: Obama's Executive Order

I think the armchair experts also fail to understand just how dangerous places like Mexico are now. A lot of people would return otherwise.
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Old Nov 23rd 2014, 10:09 pm
  #74  
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Default Re: Obama's Executive Order

Originally Posted by ian-mstm
Okay - I'm not going to let this pass.

They are not living in the US... they are existing in the US - and there's a big f**king difference. All those millions of undocumented aliens live day in and day out with the fear that some day US immigration is going to separate them from their families. Those, like Ricky_85 who do things legally, will never have that fear. You seem to think those folks are living the life of Riley - they're not. It's about fear, and intimidation, and living under the radar just one more day.


Generally speaking, no... they're not - no more than any tourist or other visitor.


Neither do you - but you seem to have quite a bit to say about things.


The vast majority do not.


You know that Ted Kennedy has been dead for over 5 years, right? You bandy about US immigration as though you're chatting about football over a pint at the local pub! You seem to think in terms of winners and losers; that you can solve the US immigration problem by being an armchair referee; that your suggestion for an immigration bill is going to benefit the US - when all it will do is make the US reviled around the world; and that undocumented aliens are living out the American dream - but you have no clue how horrid life is for most of them.

You get your information 2nd and 3rd hand - because you, yourself, aren't even in the US. It's very easy to be moral and righteous when you can do so from a safe distance. I suggest you expend your energy try to solve the UK's problem with immigration - at least that might be something you know about first hand.

In my 12+ years on BritishExpats I have never put anyone on my twit list, but you're going to be the first. I'm amazed that others don't find you as vacuous a person as I do.

Ian
No I really did not know Ted Kennedy was dead that is sad to hear. You say the majority of illegals are just existing and not living. I think they would disagree with you very strongly. If they haven't got better lives in america or are making more money in america than in their own country then what the hell are they over there for then? They are chasing their american dream.

How the hell is enforcing the law of the land going to make a country reviled around the world? Is Australia reviled around the world?. Would UK be reviled around the world if all eu migrants had to leave uk because withdrawal from EU?

In my 1 month on BritishExpats I have never put anyone on my twit list, but you're going to be the first. I'm amazed that others don't find you as vacuous a person as I do.

Last edited by johnnybrown532; Nov 23rd 2014 at 10:34 pm.
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Old Nov 23rd 2014, 10:27 pm
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Default Re: Obama's Executive Order

Originally Posted by Sally Redux
I think the armchair experts also fail to understand just how dangerous places like Mexico are now. A lot of people would return otherwise.
Mexico is a place I have no wish to visit. From dusk till dawn scared me right off it. In all seriousness it's a bad place them drug cartels are really out of control. Maybe the government can bring it under control one day.

Last edited by johnnybrown532; Nov 23rd 2014 at 10:34 pm.
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