new Arizona illegal immigration enforcement law
#61
Re: new Arizona illegal immigration enforcement law
Interesting argument. I'd answer that the makeup of the court has changed, and the same case today would have a different outcome.
Also, they could be merely forced to pay the cost of the service, same as is done for F-1 students in High School effectively accomplishing the same thing.
Also, they could be merely forced to pay the cost of the service, same as is done for F-1 students in High School effectively accomplishing the same thing.
They can certainly try to overturn it. I'm not as sure as you it'd wash, even with the current make-up.
#63
Re: new Arizona illegal immigration enforcement law
The you'd be breaking the law of the land! See: Pyler v. Doe 457 U.S. 202.
http://diverseeducation.com/article/12318/
An unintended consequence is it also impacts new legal residents because now you have to be a PR to go to school. Of course they didn't allow for K1ers and the like so while sat in limbo they can't attend school or college. With such a powerful brain like Gov. Mark "walkabout apology-tour" Sanford at the helm, what did you expect?! DUMB!
#64
not even a fake TV lawyer
Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 444
Re: new Arizona illegal immigration enforcement law
I don't see why it would be legal to Charge the F-1s and not the Illegal Immigrants.
#65
Re: new Arizona illegal immigration enforcement law
SC has already done this. Passed a law last year to block illegal immigrants from attending school:
http://diverseeducation.com/article/12318/
An unintended consequence is it also impacts new legal residents because now you have to be a PR to go to school. Of course they didn't allow for K1ers and the like so while sat in limbo they can't attend school or college. With such a powerful brain like Gov. Mark "walkabout apology-tour" Sanford at the helm, what did you expect?! DUMB!
http://diverseeducation.com/article/12318/
An unintended consequence is it also impacts new legal residents because now you have to be a PR to go to school. Of course they didn't allow for K1ers and the like so while sat in limbo they can't attend school or college. With such a powerful brain like Gov. Mark "walkabout apology-tour" Sanford at the helm, what did you expect?! DUMB!
#66
Re: new Arizona illegal immigration enforcement law
#67
Re: new Arizona illegal immigration enforcement law
In a bar, people are likely to drink...arguments happen...it's just crazy that you are willing to have that temptation of drunk people with guns....not to mention someone having a couple of pints willing to have a shoot out if someone goes to heist the place? Not exactly up to their best judgement.
#68
not even a fake TV lawyer
Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 444
Re: new Arizona illegal immigration enforcement law
How many dedicated drivers do you know around here?
In a bar, people are likely to drink...arguments happen...it's just crazy that you are willing to have that temptation of drunk people with guns....not to mention someone having a couple of pints willing to have a shoot out if someone goes to heist the place? Not exactly up to their best judgment.
In a bar, people are likely to drink...arguments happen...it's just crazy that you are willing to have that temptation of drunk people with guns....not to mention someone having a couple of pints willing to have a shoot out if someone goes to heist the place? Not exactly up to their best judgment.
Sadly we cannot regulate our way back to no weapons for anybody. That line has long past and is not feasible in the US where everyone is already armed to the teeth.
I have not heard yet a convincing argument to persuade me otherwise, but I have an open mind, and could be persuaded if the argument was convincing.
#69
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Joined: Sep 2009
Location: York, PA, USA
Posts: 856
Re: new Arizona illegal immigration enforcement law
Bob, I don't disagree with you. I would also refer back to the point I made. Currently bar shootings happen, except those that respect the law and are license to carry leave their weapons outside. Would we not be better off with additional responsible individuals being allowed to carry, in addition to the current criminals, that take the "license" provided to them by virtue of their ignoring of the law ? Only law abiding citizens do not carry to the bar.
Sadly we cannot regulate our way back to no weapons for anybody. That line has long past and is not feasible in the US where everyone is already armed to the teeth.
I have not heard yet a convincing argument to persuade me otherwise, but I have an open mind, and could be persuaded if the argument was convincing.
Sadly we cannot regulate our way back to no weapons for anybody. That line has long past and is not feasible in the US where everyone is already armed to the teeth.
I have not heard yet a convincing argument to persuade me otherwise, but I have an open mind, and could be persuaded if the argument was convincing.
#70
Re: new Arizona illegal immigration enforcement law
That's another can of worms.... (And sorry to get off-topic)
Do you agree with these premises:
1)Only law abiding citizens obey the law. Criminals ignore the law.
2)There is no easy way to Only way to check for a CONCEALED weapon possession.
It follows that if it is legally forbidden to carry a concealed firearm into a bar, and there is no way to easily enforce the regulation, only those that don't follow the law will carry concealed firearms to the bar. This is the current scenario (and one that sucks)
Another side....
In Texas, Gun ownership is quite loose, and quite frequently a Robber is shot by the homeowner. Although I have never had a gun at home, I think of this as "herd immunity caused by fear", many burglars are concerned they will be shot if they enter an occupied home, because so many citizens exercise their right to have weapons. The legal right of citizens to have a weapon at home and use it to defend themselves discourages robberies, even if I choose not to exercise that right. In Texas homeowners are very well protected legally from prosecution and liability when defending house and property against robbery.
Criminals carry weapons everywhere. I don't mind a trained civilian having that same opportunity to carry a concealed weapon without fear of prosecution.
Do you agree with these premises:
1)Only law abiding citizens obey the law. Criminals ignore the law.
2)There is no easy way to Only way to check for a CONCEALED weapon possession.
It follows that if it is legally forbidden to carry a concealed firearm into a bar, and there is no way to easily enforce the regulation, only those that don't follow the law will carry concealed firearms to the bar. This is the current scenario (and one that sucks)
Another side....
In Texas, Gun ownership is quite loose, and quite frequently a Robber is shot by the homeowner. Although I have never had a gun at home, I think of this as "herd immunity caused by fear", many burglars are concerned they will be shot if they enter an occupied home, because so many citizens exercise their right to have weapons. The legal right of citizens to have a weapon at home and use it to defend themselves discourages robberies, even if I choose not to exercise that right. In Texas homeowners are very well protected legally from prosecution and liability when defending house and property against robbery.
Criminals carry weapons everywhere. I don't mind a trained civilian having that same opportunity to carry a concealed weapon without fear of prosecution.
#71
And YOU'RE paying for it!
Joined: May 2007
Location: kipper tie?
Posts: 2,328
Re: new Arizona illegal immigration enforcement law
And from the other angle, it's not realistic to think that there will be a significant deterrent effect to the naughty people because they might think other patrons will have guns, for three reasons: firstly, if you were thinking logically you wouldn't get into a public fight in a bar in the first place because there's rarely a point to them; secondly, they're pissed; and thirdly, people who go to the kinds of bars where people regularly pull out guns on each other (and they do exist) already suspect that other patrons will have guns on them, legal or not.
#72
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Joined: Sep 2009
Location: York, PA, USA
Posts: 856
Re: new Arizona illegal immigration enforcement law
Yeah, but your argument is based on a false premise that there are two types of people in the world: criminals that carry guns into bars and are liable to shoot people, and law-abiding citizens that wouldn't shoot anyone even if they did carry guns in there. But bar brawls are spontaneous and unplanned, and people just fight with whatever they have to hand. Right now there are plenty of "law abiding" citizens that get into brawls and the only reason they're not shooting the gaff up is because they don't have their gun to hand; it's not because they're morally superior people.
And from the other angle, it's not realistic to think that there will be a significant deterrent effect to the naughty people because they might think other patrons will have guns, for three reasons: firstly, if you were thinking logically you wouldn't get into a public fight in a bar in the first place because there's rarely a point to them; secondly, they're pissed; and thirdly, people who go to the kinds of bars where people regularly pull out guns on each other (and they do exist) already suspect that other patrons will have guns on them, legal or not.
And from the other angle, it's not realistic to think that there will be a significant deterrent effect to the naughty people because they might think other patrons will have guns, for three reasons: firstly, if you were thinking logically you wouldn't get into a public fight in a bar in the first place because there's rarely a point to them; secondly, they're pissed; and thirdly, people who go to the kinds of bars where people regularly pull out guns on each other (and they do exist) already suspect that other patrons will have guns on them, legal or not.
#73
Re: new Arizona illegal immigration enforcement law
That's not a solution.
Yes it is. Alcohol critically impairs judgment. That's why it's illegal to drink and drive, regardless of what "sort" of bar the drinking was done at.
Yes it is. Alcohol critically impairs judgment. That's why it's illegal to drink and drive, regardless of what "sort" of bar the drinking was done at.
#74
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 7,605
Re: new Arizona illegal immigration enforcement law
Precisely - which is why I pointed out that many states allow carry on licensed premises while prohibiting carry while drinking. I don't drive pissed. I don't carry pissed either.