scrubbedexpat099

Fair is an interesting concept, and usually in the eye of the beholder.

For a community resourced service I think it has to be what is logical and feasible.

And you can not divorce human nature from that, in fact that seems to be the most complicated aspect.

It is a sad fact that people do not value what they do not pay for in the round.

I like the concept of HSA's but do not see how they can be anything other than partially effective. Not sure what percentage of the population, less than half?

Giantaxe

When we spend 17% of GDP on toilet rolls maybe you'll have a point. Until then, discussing the strengths and weaknesses of public policy on healthcare will be more useful.

Giantaxe

Probably. Otoh, they may have an impact on everybody in the sense that if the healthier opt for high deductible/HSA's the pool for more comprehensive insurance will become less healthy pushing up its relative cost. In turn that will likely cause more employers to offer only a high deductible option.

nun

HSAs favour those in higher tax brackets, but tax savings mean little when your premium goes up by 20%. US health care is simply too expensive and there is no real competition or incentive to control costs in the current system. This all derives from the organic way US health insurance developed in the 20th Century.

Asg123

There was a great chance in the Primaries to fix it and bring the US in line with other civilized countries, but it was missed.

I doubt if unfairness of HSAs will be an issue, as there will likely be parts of the new system that will be more unfair.

Pulaski

When neither shelter nor food is handed out for "free" nor massively subsidized by the US government to more than a tiny proportion of the population I am still mystified as to why anyone would expect medical services to be handed out for free.

"Well, other countries do it!" seems to be the lamest justification, and describing subsidized healthcare as "civilized" is no justification at all, it is nothing but a non-argument that dares anyone to disgree lest they appear "uncivilized", which, as we discussed on another thread yesterday, is the smug way that the left presents its agenda.

Giantaxe

Odd, I haven't seen anyone in this thread suggest that healthcare should be free.

Pulaski

You missed "or massively subsidized", and in any case Medicaid is as near to free as makes no difference.

nun

Health care is not free anywhere.....someone pays. It's just that in the US that "someone" pays far more that in other countries. Whether it's the tax payer, a company or the individual the costs in the US are simply too high and they take far too large a proportion of any budget.

Giantaxe

Is someone proposing "Medicaid for all"

If you're so concerned about subsidization presumably you'll be closing your HSA and returning your "ill gotten" gains to the government. Oh, and paying your premium with post- rather than pre-tax dollars.

scrubbedexpat099

Mr P can of course speak for himself but I certainly took his view as being one of realism, he did not design the system just tries and makes it work as best he can.

As far as the 'system' is concerned, OCare and its obvious problems were discussed on here when it was happening.

Obviously a large number of relatively bright people were involved in its design, I can not believe that most of what has been discussed on here and more was not raised at the time.

What was happening behind closed doors would be interesting to know, maybe one day.

I have yet to hear of any scheme proposed that makes much sense, certainly nothing Hillary or Donald mentioned.

Mind you if I was a Politician it is a subject I would want to avoid as much as possible, there is no win scenario, a lot of people will be pissed off whatever you do.

Giantaxe

Obamacare's biggest flaw is that the mandate isn't strong enough. That is easily fixed, of course.

Pulaski

Bernie Sanders did. I'm not concerned. I am more concerned that your buddies will one day close my HSA and substitute my family's health insurance with a single payer system.

The problem with your buddies' preferred solution is that it needs my tax dollars to make it work while simultaneously cutting the level and quality of service that my family gets.

scrubbedexpat099

The mandate is actually symptomatic of why it is flawed in many many ways.

If it was so wonderful why would you even need a mandate?

Giantaxe

Is Bernie Sanders posting on this thread

And, no, he didn't. He wanted to extend Medicare, which is clearly not "free".

My buddies? Clinton, btw, was against Medicare for all so I have no idea why you're so fixated by that, even though Medicare gets higher ratings than regular insurance. Additionally, my tax dollars help the government subsidize your healthcare through the foregoing of tax on contributions and gains in your HSA.