petitefrancaise

Crikey and apparently I was being HUFFY!
I thought my comments were directly relevant since the conversation had gone over to the financial aspects of childcare. Please note that I did not in any way denigrate someone staying at home to look after the children full time. I've done it at various times. You are being naiive if you think that the choice to stay at home is "irrespective of long and short term financial gain".

In an ideal world, we would all be able to choose whatever we wish to do. This world is not ideal and the US less so than most places when it comes to childcare and choices.

In France, I had my 3rd child there and was given a very generous allowance to stay at home for 3 years (like every french maman). Creche was so cheap and good quality as to not even think about if I went back to work and places were plentiful too. At 2.5 the kids could go to ecole maternelle all day - this was free too. When the child reached 3, then the extra money stopped and a good french maman was expected to go back to work at the job that was hers previously. And we did. Because in France, mothers are expected to work, to contribute to society. You also can't access your spouse's pension if you divorce, you need your own.

So, if you want to get huffy with me, go ahead. But really you should be marching on the streets, calling your political representatives and trying to achieve for US mothers something like the deal they would get in France that actually makes it possible to have a choice.

catlover3

Well, if you're going to write that then it certainly seems like you're denigrating full time mums.

All I'm saying is motherhood is devalued as it is, no need to shame those that choose to do it.

petitefrancaise

as a mother of children aged 14, 18 and 20. I have spent a LOT of time looking after them. I think I know what I'm talking about. I've loved it and not loved it. And when people start getting paid for staying at home and looking after their kids then I think you will have done your job.

tom169

I sometimes call my mum "mom" just to wind her up.

Pulaski

There wouldn't be much traffic on BE if you excluded posts soliciting advice and opinions, and responding posts of people recounting experience and giving opinions.

petitefrancaise

I think I probably should get a PhD in motherhood/parenting then I'd be qualified to have an opinion, n'est-ce pas?

robin1234

Hopefully there'd still be scans of dirty postcards in the jokes thread

Rete

WOW ... my granddaughter's camp, which is through the public school, is $800 for the season and runs from 8 am to 3 pm and if you need your child to stay until 6 pm it is another $200 for the season.

They go swimming 3 times a week; to the park and playgrounds every other day; on rainy days they have music, dancing and arts and craft and trips to the library; plant gardens at the start of the season and harvest in late August; go to the Bronx Zoo and to local farms; visit the water park once a season and the amusement park twice a season.

What does your child get for $6000 for two months? Gold leaf in their luncheon sandwich?

Rete

Are you saying that you had your teenage children with a nanny or in child care after the age of 13? Frankly, from a personal point of view and what my life as a single mother of two years ago, I find that mind boggling. My girls went to school and returned home, let themselves in, made their own after school snacks and did their homework all by themselves after the age of 13. One was 13 and the other 10. I got home from work at 6 pm. I fully realize this was over 30 years ago and times are different put I'm still amazed.


PF, I understand that you were posting your point of view and what you demand and/or need in your life. It does come across as if you are putting down the women who chose to remain at home with their children if they can financially afford to.

There are plenty of women out there who do not need outside employment, either going to a lab or an office daily or working from home (which is hard to get for many), who find being a full time, hands on mom fulfilling and rewarding. I could not do it when I got divorced when the girls were 4 and 7. I had to work and they had to go into daycare. But for my oldest, yes, I stayed at homely happily for her first 7 years.

petitefrancaise

Actually Rete, I am also a single mum as of 18 months ago. I also chose to stay at home when the kids were little at least for a while and we weren't in desperate need of the cash either. I enjoyed it when I was at home too, but boy was I glad when I worked.

I think everyone believes they are making the best choices for themselves and their families at the point they are making them. Of course they do. I also think that women should look out for themselves and their future. Getting back into work after taking years out is no joke. Taking work well below your capabilities is often needed and our dear friend the gender research woman above I am sure will confirm that most women do not ever make up the difference in salary or job position that they lost from staying at home. I don't think women should be penalised for staying at home, I don't think they should go out to work if they don't want to.

Us ex-pats though, are a particularly vulnerable group too. This article from Huff post has been widely shared and commented on and considering the divorce rate amongst ex-pat couples I would think long and hard before giving up work entirely. It may feel like you are giving the baby the best start in life but at what cost?
Our Gilded Expat Cages | The Huffington Post

Rete

I fully agree. I see it with my youngest who left work (a job she hated btw) in her 9th month and they decided since they live simply they could do so on a single salary for a few years. However, my granddaughter is on the lower end of the spectrum for autism and daughter was unable to return to work because of the child's constant need for parental intervention when she would act up in preschool at the JCC or in regular school later on. Now that the GD is older and is being treated by a wonderful behavioral therapist and has better control of her emotional disabilities, daughter cannot find employment as her references are too old, her skills, while up to date, are such they are not outstanding and she is now older. She does work p/t and honestly, while it is not a career, it is employment that is specialized and she is extraordinarily good at this niche market that she commands $75 an hour for her services.

I will have a read.

mrken30

In the US , pregnancy and childbirth may come under a disability instead of maternity time off.

The Federal rules come under the FMLA (Family Medical Leave Act) , this covers time off for a new birth or adoption (6 weeks). However the disability portion probably comes under the ADA.

Coverage for Pregnancy Disability. Pregnancy and any related illness or complication is one of the medical conditions covered under New York’s temporary disability insurance. An employee is entitled to coverage only for the time when she is actually unable to work due to pregnancy or childbirth.

New York Short-Term Disability and Pregnancy | Disability Secrets

This is quoted from NOLO , which I believe is a reputable source.

Time off can also vary by employer, as it can in the UK

I just saw that she is moving to NJ. She would have to check NJ state legislation.

anotherlimey

Probably the same. The school has a very inflated image of itself.

It sounds like I should send my kids up there for the summer!

elizabethsmum

First Congratulations xxx I had my baby in Upstate N.Y. 14 years ago when we first lived in the States (we are moving back this summer) the actual medical care was amazing, we had our own private room with our own bathroom, phone, tv, bed for my hubby and lots of supplies for the baby.
I saw my sister give birth here in the UK and I will say I'm so glad I had the experience I had! Her husband and I was kicked out of the hospital an hour after she had her c section. She was left with a baby in a ward with zero help, they refused to let her husband stay to help and you had to bring everything for the baby, in the States I ended up going home with everything from diapers to formula!

The big downside is the maternity leave there, I had a c section and was back at work when my baby was 8 weeks old and that was because I had a c section, if I had a vaginal birth it would have been 6 weeks!!!

Pulaski

That isn't necessarily a good thing - it's merely a symptom of rampant commercialization of healthcare because those products are funded by the marketing arm of the companies that make them.

When it is generally accepted that breastfeeding is preferred under almost all circumstances, it is pretty deplorable that the hospital staff are obligated to give away formula too all new mothers. .... Mrs P took hers out of the bag and left it behind!