Jules Europe

Basically, I just tossed in the good points that you had raised along with a generalization on the concept of happiness. To conclude, the vast majority of first world countries are in the the northern part of the northern hemisphere and have high standards of living, good opportunities and supposedly a good variety of leisure activities for its citizens to undertake. Looking at other countries in this sphere, most notably the non-first world or the first world fringe countries, all of the above aspects start to decrease and less members of the population have access to them.

If we look at the southern part of the northern hemisphere and the southern hemisphere in general, again the first world opportunities start to diminish quite quickly BUT in my experience unless the people are facing starvation or in a war zone, their levels of happiness are often higher than their first world counterparts, who supposedly have access to services and a quality of life that these people don`t have and often dream about. By the way, most of these people will still live the monotonous life that the first world counterparts live and even work longer hours, so what makes these people fundamentally happier in themselves? Given that the family union is stronger in these countries than in the first world, this is certainly one factor and the other as stated above in not necessarily a hot climate but most definitely a sunny one. I remember one day when I was living in the UK, I was woken up by a friend to go out somewhere for the day and he stated that we should go out as it was a glorious day outside, I thought hey....this is the UK it doesn`t have glorious days in winter! What he meant, was that it was a glorious sunny winter`s day with a glorious blue sky and it was just too good to waste. I think this describes the importance of sunlight on peoples mood and well-being either knowingly or unknowingly.

The highest suicide rates in the world seem to be in eastern europe most notably the ex soviet states, they are certainly not first world, life is often grim and the climate grim with little sunlight for many months of the year, so its no surprise to see that they are high in the unhappiness stakes, these are followed by northern and western Europe that are first world countries but still lack adequate sunlight in the winter months and then in third place are probably the poorer nations but at least they have a stronger family unit, sunlight and in some respects a more basic life (even though that could be debated) Despite all this, many would still trade their lives with someone in the USA or UK anytime.

I think Aus is an anomaly with all this, as it matches the benefits of the first world with the climate aspects of the southern hemisphere most notably in sunshine hours, so in theory it should be happier as a nation but given the stats above, they would contest this theory. I suppose Canada could follow the same trend as well, but instead we have a cold country and according to what I have read and have seen on this forum, parts of say Alberta have a glorious winter sun that really is treated as huge bonus and plus point by the people that live there, so this strengthens again the sunlight angle.

I don`t think access to sunlight hours on its own, is enough to justify that this is what wholly constitutes happiness, but I do think it plays a significant factor on the well being of the human species.

Jules Europe

I think her point of view here is personal, as was probably the person that criticized the system.

As for Norway being expensive, I know from a number of Swedes that live here in Spain, that say how expensive both Norway and Denmark are in relation to that of Sweden. I`ve travelled to all three countries and know Sweden reasonably well and I noted that it was cheaper than either Norway or Denmark. Also Norwegians more so than any other nationality that I can think of, when they come to Spain to buy property they are literally the most well off and have huge purchasing power here, especially if they have the proceeds of a sold property back in Norway......I love Norwegians.

dboy

my god take a happy pill, the op's comments were made tongue in cheek.

dboy

I highly doubt that western nations have vastly different suicide rates. How figures are compared and calculated can have an effect on the averages. Mental illness is a real tragedy, sadly we tend to attach so much social stigma to it. Speaking from an anecdotal point of view from someone who has attended more suicides than he would like to have.

elfman

the rate in some western countries (Belgium, Finland, France) is 2-3 times higher than in Britain

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Suicide_rates (uses WHO data)

How so? Are you suggesting the definition of suicide varies from place to place?

quoll

It isnt so much the definition of suicide which varies so much as the coronial process which is content to define it as such. In Aus there was a recent paper which indicated that the actual suicide rate was probably 30% higher than currently reported because of a reluctance to actually label it as such - young men driving into trees etc is one prime example. It's actually quite a big topic of conversation in the "suicide prevention" industry at the mo. Britain generally does come out much lower than other similar western countries.

Sally Redux

A young man in our street in Solihull died from a drug overdose, the family were very keen that it not be recorded as suicide.

quoll

Yup, drug overdose is another one which gets an accidental verdict more often than not.

Jules Europe

Young men driving into trees is actually very vague and not necessarily fatal, its not like jumping in front of a train for example which is about as fatal as it gets. For this reason, it can be left open to all types of interpretation as can a drug overdose.

quoll

Sure, but the intent may well have been suicide which then leads to under-reporting the suicide stats because coroners will always err on the side of accidental death. When you are in the suicide prevention industry it still means that you are missing a lot of people.

Jules Europe

Point being, that this is a variable that nobody can accurately predict unless say a suicide note or message has been found. I think it would be wrong for a coroner to give a verdict of suicide, unless sufficient proof were available.

quoll

I dont disagree but that means the suicide figures are under reported as some of those deaths may well have been suicide - and the level of under reporting is quite significant and means that the suicide prevention programs arent hitting the mark. We have a senate enqiry going on about it at the moment.

Lord_Farquar

Yey. I think I will move to Zimbabwe to take up my life long dream of being a farmer.

the troubadour

Denmark ranks as a nation that constantly rates high or top of many emotional well being ratings. Reasons for this are usually given as a greater equality from school through to gender and far less disparity between the earnings of those on the top from those on the bottom.
A little difficult to always measure the things of the world that we can only see and count.Instead of Gross National Product the King of Bhutan talks on Gross National Happiness. How good is that? Concentrate on immaterial successes as well as material.
How people feel about themselves and world around them is a great part to what constitutes happiness way above the weather and wealth factors,i would say.
in wealth dist

Jules Europe

I think its an awkward situation, because without proper proof a coroner can`t put down suicide, also most family members or anybody close, would most likely prefer that the cause of death is anything but suicide. As you say though, suicide prevention programs need to hit the mark to be effective because suicide is very much a condition that can often be prevented.