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Old Nov 10th 2005, 7:10 pm   #1
Mrandmrsjones
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Default Why is Citizenship N-652 Interview Results worded this way?

I know when most people get their letter stating they passed the test
and are being recommended for approval, they celebrate.

But the way the thing is worded, it makes me feel I can't really
celebrate until the Oath Ceremony.

It says "... At this time it APPEARS that you have established your
eligibility for naturalization. IF FINAL APPROVAL IS GRANTED, you will
be notified when and where to report for the Oath Ceremony..."
[emphaasis mine]

So, it seems it is not yet a sure thing.

Why is it worded this way? What can go wrong, at this point?

Also, I heard that there is yet another interview at the Oath
Ceremony. What does that consist of, and is it possible one can get
rejected at that interview? What would be the grounds for this?

Thanks. I won't be able to relax until this thing is completely "in
the bag".
 
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Old Nov 10th 2005, 8:08 pm   #2
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Default Re: Why is Citizenship N-652 Interview Results worded this way?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mrandmrsjones
But the way the thing is worded, it makes me feel I can't really celebrate until the Oath Ceremony.
This is correct... you are not a US citizen until you take the Oath of Allegiance... and not one moment prior! What can happen? Lots. You may murder someone during the time from your interview to the ceremony... that'd certainly put the kibosh on things, eh?


Quote:
Also, I heard that there is yet another interview at the Oath Ceremony.
There isn't an interview, although you will be required to complete the back of the Notice to Appear form.

Ian
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Old Nov 10th 2005, 8:26 pm   #3
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Default Re: Why is Citizenship N-652 Interview Results worded this way?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mrandmrsjones
I know when most people get their letter stating they passed the test
and are being recommended for approval, they celebrate.

But the way the thing is worded, it makes me feel I can't really
celebrate until the Oath Ceremony.

It says "... At this time it APPEARS that you have established your
eligibility for naturalization. IF FINAL APPROVAL IS GRANTED, you will
be notified when and where to report for the Oath Ceremony..."
[emphaasis mine]

So, it seems it is not yet a sure thing.

Why is it worded this way? What can go wrong, at this point?

Also, I heard that there is yet another interview at the Oath
Ceremony. What does that consist of, and is it possible one can get
rejected at that interview? What would be the grounds for this?

Thanks. I won't be able to relax until this thing is completely "in
the bag".
Did you write about this second interview earlier either on this forum or on another one? If not, then someone else asked the very same question not long ago.

Actually you haven't been approved until you get the approval letter with the date of the oath ceremony. And on the day of the ceremony is not another interview per se but they will ask you about the trips you have taken since taking the test, any changes in your circumstances, ie filed for divorce, criminal activity, etc.

So, yes, there are just two of the grounds for denial and/or delay at the last minute. The first is in the case if you are naturalizing under the three year rule based on marriage to a USC, then filing for a divorce is the equivalent of being divorced for the CIS and thus your are disqualified for naturalizing on that timeline.
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Old Nov 10th 2005, 10:46 pm   #4
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Default Re: Why is Citizenship N-652 Interview Results worded this way?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mrandmrsjones
I know when most people get their letter stating they passed the test
and are being recommended for approval, they celebrate.

But the way the thing is worded, it makes me feel I can't really
celebrate until the Oath Ceremony.

It says "... At this time it APPEARS that you have established your
eligibility for naturalization. IF FINAL APPROVAL IS GRANTED, you will
be notified when and where to report for the Oath Ceremony..."
[emphaasis mine]

So, it seems it is not yet a sure thing.

Why is it worded this way? What can go wrong, at this point?

Also, I heard that there is yet another interview at the Oath
Ceremony. What does that consist of, and is it possible one can get
rejected at that interview? What would be the grounds for this?

Thanks. I won't be able to relax until this thing is completely "in
the bag".
Hi:

Because the Immigration & Nationality Act is quite specific that you must continue to qualify up and until the the date you are actually sworn in. I actually had to write a brief very recently about what "is" is and cited that section. The provison I was dealing with requires a period of residence "immediately preceeding the date of application" and that the person "was and is" a person of good moral character during "such" period. I compared it to the naturalization provision which requires residence for a specified period before the application, continued residence from date of application until swearing in, and that "during all such periods" the person "was and is" a person of good moral character. The case law defines "was" and "is" with some particularity and relied on both "was" and "is." The Board of Immigration Appeals held that both "was" and "is" must be considered and since I argued only "was" and ignored "is", we lost. Our contention is that arguing the meaning of "is" is arguing the meaning of "is" and is NOT ignoring what "is" is.

BTW, in this case, there is a US citizen child with downs syndrome and it is agreed by all parties that it will be "extreme and unusual hardship" to the child if mom is deported. The IJ ruled that the "was and is" language was optional, while the BIA stated it was a requirement, but described my argument as set forth above.

Practice of law can be fun at times.
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Old Nov 11th 2005, 12:12 am   #5
Mh
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Default Re: Why is Citizenship N-652 Interview Results worded this way?

In article <35$336738$2969506$1131666375@britishexpats.com> ,
Folinskyinla <member4043@british_expats.com> wrote:
    >> I know when most people get their letter stating they passed the test
    >> and are being recommended for approval, they celebrate.
    >> But the way the thing is worded, it makes me feel I can't really
    >> celebrate until the Oath Ceremony.
    >> It says "... At this time it APPEARS that you have established your
    >> eligibility for naturalization. IF FINAL APPROVAL IS GRANTED, you will
    >> be notified when and where to report for the Oath Ceremony..."
    >> [emphaasis mine]
    >> So, it seems it is not yet a sure thing.
    >> Why is it worded this way? What can go wrong, at this point?
    >> Also, I heard that there is yet another interview at the Oath
    >> Ceremony. What does that consist of, and is it possible one can get
    >> rejected at that interview? What would be the grounds for this?
    >> Thanks. I won't be able to relax until this thing is completely "in
    >> the bag".
    >Hi:
    >Because the Immigration & Nationality Act is quite specific that you
    >must continue to qualify up and until the the date you are actually
    >sworn in. I actually had to write a brief very recently about what
    >"is" is and cited that section. The provison I was dealing with
    >requires a period of residence "immediately preceeding the date of
    >application" and that the person "was and is" a person of good moral
    >character during "such" period. I compared it to the naturalization
    >provision which requires residence for a specified period before the
    >application, continued residence from date of application until
    >swearing in, and that "during all such periods" the person "was and is"
    >a person of good moral character. The case law defines "was" and "is"
    >with some particularity and relied on both "was" and "is." The Board
    >of Immigration Appeals held that both "was" and "is" must be considered
    >and since I argued only "was" and ignored "is", we lost. Our
    >contention is that arguing the meaning of "is" is arguing the meaning
    >of "is" and is NOT ignoring what "is" is.
    >BTW, in this case, there is a US citizen child with downs syndrome and
    >it is agreed by all parties that it will be "extreme and unusual
    >hardship" to the child if mom is deported. The IJ ruled that the "was
    >and is" language was optional, while the BIA stated it was a
    >requirement, but described my argument as set forth above.
    >Practice of law can be fun at times.

As I read this, the mom WAS a person of good character, but IS not
necessarily now (assuming "now" is the instant of time you were arguing this
case), and you were arguing that she should be allow to stay anyway??

I'm not saying right or wrong here. But, it sounds like mom did something
questionable between application and oath? Or am I way off base?

MH
 
Old Nov 12th 2005, 5:28 am   #6
Mrandmrsjones
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Default Re: Why is Citizenship N-652 Interview Results worded this way?

On Thu, 10 Nov 2005 23:46:15 +0000, Folinskyinla
<member4043@british_expats.com> wrote:


    >Practice of law can be fun at times.
I can think of other adjectives...
Crazy... stupid...
 
Old Nov 12th 2005, 5:30 am   #7
Mrandmrsjones
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Default Re: Why is Citizenship N-652 Interview Results worded this way?

On Thu, 10 Nov 2005 21:08:14 +0000, ian-mstm
<member2954@british_expats.com> wrote:

    > you are not a US citizen until you take the Oath of
    >Allegiance... and not one moment prior! What can happen? Lots. You may
    >murder someone during the time from your interview to the ceremony...
    >that'd certainly put the kibosh on things, eh?
    >There isn't an interview, although you will be required to complete the
    >back of the Notice to Appear form.
    >Ian
So, unless the applicant does something wrong (such as commit a crime
or leave the country for too long) between the time of the interview
and the time of the oath, he/she will become a citizen for sure?
 
Old Nov 12th 2005, 1:43 pm   #8
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Default Re: Why is Citizenship N-652 Interview Results worded this way?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mrandmrsjones
On Thu, 10 Nov 2005 21:08:14 +0000, ian-mstm
<member2954@british_expats.com> wrote:

    > you are not a US citizen until you take the Oath of
    >Allegiance... and not one moment prior! What can happen? Lots. You may
    >murder someone during the time from your interview to the ceremony...
    >that'd certainly put the kibosh on things, eh?
    >There isn't an interview, although you will be required to complete the
    >back of the Notice to Appear form.
    >Ian
So, unless the applicant does something wrong (such as commit a crime
or leave the country for too long) between the time of the interview
and the time of the oath, he/she will become a citizen for sure?
Hi:

No. The applicant can do something quite normal and not wrong -- die. They will not become a citizen.

Also, lets say someone ELSE with the same name and date of birth is convicted of a crime -- I've seen that happen.
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Old Nov 12th 2005, 5:58 pm   #9
Mrandmrsjones
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Default Re: Why is Citizenship N-652 Interview Results worded this way?

On Sat, 12 Nov 2005 14:43:52 +0000, Folinskyinla
<member4043@british_expats.com> wrote:

    >> On Thu, 10 Nov 2005 21:08:14 +0000, ian-mstm
    >> <member2954@british_expats.com> wrote:
    >> > you are not a US citizen until you take the Oath of
    >> > Allegiance... and not one moment prior! What can happen? Lots. You
    >> > may
    >> > murder someone during the time from your interview to the
    >> > ceremony...
    >> > that'd certainly put the kibosh on things, eh?
    >> > There isn't an interview, although you will be required to complete
    >> > the
    >> > back of the Notice to Appear form.
    >> > Ian
    >> So, unless the applicant does something wrong (such as commit a crime
    >> or leave the country for too long) between the time of the interview
    >> and the time of the oath, he/she will become a citizen for sure?
    >Hi:
    >No. The applicant can do something quite normal and not wrong -- die.
    >They will not become a citizen.
    >Also, lets say someone ELSE with the same name and date of birth is
    >convicted of a crime -- I've seen that happen.
So something rare could cause things to go wrong, but nothing normal
other than death.
 
Old Nov 12th 2005, 7:04 pm   #10
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Default Re: Why is Citizenship N-652 Interview Results worded this way?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mrandmrsjones
On Sat, 12 Nov 2005 14:43:52 +0000, Folinskyinla
<member4043@british_expats.com> wrote:

    >> On Thu, 10 Nov 2005 21:08:14 +0000, ian-mstm
    >> <member2954@british_expats.com> wrote:
    >> > you are not a US citizen until you take the Oath of
    >> > Allegiance... and not one moment prior! What can happen? Lots. You
    >> > may
    >> > murder someone during the time from your interview to the
    >> > ceremony...
    >> > that'd certainly put the kibosh on things, eh?
    >> > There isn't an interview, although you will be required to complete
    >> > the
    >> > back of the Notice to Appear form.
    >> > Ian
    >> So, unless the applicant does something wrong (such as commit a crime
    >> or leave the country for too long) between the time of the interview
    >> and the time of the oath, he/she will become a citizen for sure?
    >Hi:
    >No. The applicant can do something quite normal and not wrong -- die.
    >They will not become a citizen.
    >Also, lets say someone ELSE with the same name and date of birth is
    >convicted of a crime -- I've seen that happen.
So something rare could cause things to go wrong, but nothing normal
other than death.

Hi:

Didn't say that. Look, 98% of them go through with no trouble.
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Old Nov 13th 2005, 7:06 pm   #11
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Default Re: Why is Citizenship N-652 Interview Results worded this way?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mrandmrsjones
So something rare could cause things to go wrong, but nothing normal other than death.
You really need to chill out a bit... switch to decaf.

Ian
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