Ken Pisichko

Stuart Brook wrote:

    > Ken Pisichko wrote:
    > > But doesn't it LOOK like something is being done to combat terrorism?
    > >
    > > Rights? What rights? Canadians are visitors to the USA - and all US laws apply to
    > > them as they are aliens. Representation? Of course - that is what Canadian
    > > Embassies and Consular offices are for. If you are detained then it gets
    > > complicated.
    > A Canadian has no *right* to enter the US ... none at all. It is a privilege, and
    > has been made a more generous privilege by the lack of need for a visa, and lack of
    > need for a passport.
    > Stuart

I wonder if it "generous" as you put it, or just common sense With the numbers of
people crossing North-South, I'll bet that the bureaucrats saw the need for a
passport as a bureaucratic nightmare. Costly to boot (in terms of manpower
allocation). Besides, why have a passport if not asked for? When I cross into the USA
with my boys I am never asked for their passports even though I bring their
passports.

A passport does not guarantee entry either, BUT a visa seems to.

Mind you, and I am VERY happy for this, the US Customs/INS types do ask the boys
questions if Mom is not in the car with us. This is part of the due diligence that
they are required to exercise. I also thank the official for doing this - and
specifically say thank you for asking the boys these questions.

While it is a bit of an inconvenience, it is better to have this inconvenience than
to have kids taken across the border by someone who is not authorized to do so.

Ken

Ken Pisichko

James Donovan wrote:

    > [email protected] (AftonOkla) wrote in message
    > news:<[email protected]>...
    > > >But you are missing my point. It is so easy to cross the border from Canada,
    > > >citizen or not. We NEED to check people coming into our country so that at
    > > >least we reduce the possibility of a terrorist sneaking in via Canada.
    > >
    > > If a terrorist wants in he will get in. He can just as easily sneak in from
    > > Mexico. Hell, about 6 million Mexicans have managed to sneak in so what are his
    > > chances of getting caught? Also there are many crossings from Canada to the USA
    > > that are completely open and people in those rural areas cross back and forth all
    > > the time.
    > Then we need to restrict ALL borders. I am not in favour of mexicans or people of
    > ANY country coming here and staying beyond their allowed invitation. If you are
    > coming here, for whatever purpose, you need to be inspected and we need to ensure
    > that you are not coming here to kill us or stay illegally and become a burden on
    > our society. As much as people say that illegals are benefitting the economy that
    > is totally wrong. They are lowering the cost of labor so that many Americans who
    > need jobs are forced to compete with these illegals, to which there are NO
    > regulations governing which wages they are paid.

I have noticed that immigrants will take whatever job they can get. I saw new
arrivals from the Indian sub-continent taking the garbage collection and rubbish jobs
that "UK citizens" turned their nose at. I see the same thing here in Canada. New
arrivals here in Canada coming as refugees from some God-awful place take whatever
they can get. I understand from your comment that illegal immigrants do the same
thing in the USA.

What pray tell, is wrong with the US citizens and business types who hire these
illegal types? Are they not patriotic? Cannot they see that by hiring these poor (and
illegal) types that they are depriving US citizens of a job? Cannot they see that
they might be harboring and employing a terrorist, or a potential killer or .......,
or just another human being who wants peace and quiet and a place to raise children
in a peaceful and healthy environment?

I wonder if the folks who hire these poor (and illegal) immigrants are just doing it
to enhance their bottom line? Remember that while the highly paid executives of TONKA
Toys live in posh Minnetonka, the denizens who toil in Mexico (at quite frankly
pi**-poor wages) do so gratefully. These denizens are just happy to have work - but
they know that the results of their toil results in over-priced products to be used
and abused by kids in Canada and the USA.

The consumer wants it both ways - a well paid job and cheap (I mean CHEAP) food
and consumer goods. Such food and consumer goods CANNOT be produced entirely in
Canada nor in the USA. If it could happen then US and Canadian corporations (like
TONKA, TI and IBM) would not be producing offshore. Cannot happen in the current
economic structure. Something has to give. I no longer wonder why there is such
resentment in the developing world toward the "developed world" and especially
toward North America.

Ken

Stuart Gill

In article <[email protected]>, Ken Pisichko
<[email protected]> wrote:

    > Agreed, but they are still Canadian citizens, not US citizens. Thankfully Canadian
    > citizens do not need visas for temporary visits to the USA. I did need a J-1 when I
    > went to Minnesota to do my Ph.D. Also, thanks to the bureaucracy for seeing to it
    > that US citizens do not require visas for temporary visits to Canada. They do need
    > them for jobs and study purposes - just like anyone does when coming to the USA for
    > those purposes. Neither Canadian nor US citizens are exempt from study and work
    > visa requirements - just the short term visits are exempt.

Canadians don't require a visa for work purposes. They do require a status which they
get approval for through the INS just like anyone else desiring to work in the US.
However, every other nationality, except for Canadians, must then go through the
state department by way of a US embassy/consulate to get a visa that allows for entry
not for status. Are you sure that you needed a J-1 _visa_ and that you didn't just
have a J-1 _status_?

Stuart

Ken Pisichko

Stuart Gill wrote:

    > In article <[email protected]>, Ken Pisichko
    > <[email protected]> wrote:
    >
    > > Agreed, but they are still Canadian citizens, not US citizens. Thankfully
    > > Canadian citizens do not need visas for temporary visits to the USA. I did need a
    > > J-1 when I went to Minnesota to do my Ph.D. Also, thanks to the bureaucracy for
    > > seeing to it that US citizens do not require visas for temporary visits to
    > > Canada. They do need them for jobs and study purposes - just like anyone does
    > > when coming to the USA for those purposes. Neither Canadian nor US citizens are
    > > exempt from study and work visa requirements - just the short term visits are
    > > exempt.
    >
    > Canadians don't require a visa for work purposes.

Are you sure about this? In my recent reading about employment in the USA there is
a need for a "document" that allows for not only work, BUT (and I think this is
most important) also the collection of and taxes and state/federal deductions from
your paycheck.

While I can get a TN-1 visa at the border, I still need it (or a HB1) to legally work
south of the 49th parallel.

Ken

James Donovan

[email protected] (AftonOkla) wrote in message
news:<[email protected]>...
    > >This "honor system" has been responsible for illegal aliens crossing the border.
    > >We need to honor our own country only and start tracking entries and exits.
    >
    > They check your citizenship and ID and that is good enough. If they want to track
    > entry and exit for non citizens of either country, that is fine too but as a
    > citizen of the USA it is not anybodies business if I go to Canada or how long I
    > stay there.

It is a business of the USA to make sure that foreigners, including canadians, do not
overstay their welcome, and that we do not admit anyone who is going to kill us.

Ken Pisichko

James Donovan wrote:

    > [email protected] (AftonOkla) wrote in message
    > news:<[email protected]>...
    > > >This "honor system" has been responsible for illegal aliens crossing the border.
    > > >We need to honor our own country only and start tracking entries and exits.
    > >
    > > They check your citizenship and ID and that is good enough. If they want to track
    > > entry and exit for non citizens of either country, that is fine too but as a
    > > citizen of the USA it is not anybodies business if I go to Canada or how long I
    > > stay there.
    >
    > It is a business of the USA to make sure that foreigners, including canadians,
    > do not overstay their welcome, and that we do not admit anyone who is going to
    > kill us.

I agree, but how can ANYONE predict who is going to kill whom? If anyone can do such
a prediction then I'll bet there are a LOT of police, and federal government
organizations that will be really happy to pay them BIG greenbacks to help stamp out
terrorism.

"Thinking" that someone will do something is not enough reason to act in a negative
way toward them. I don't see how it will stand up to any legal tests. Then when the
legal test fails the "thinker" will have to pay ALL legal costs - not just his own.
So much for "thinking".

The concept of barring someone from being somewhere or taking on a certain job
because you "think" they may do something bad does not hold up in court. Innocent
until proven guilty seems to be the basic for Common Law - the basis for US and
Canadian law.

Ken

James Donovan

Stuart Brook <[email protected] > wrote in message
news:<[email protected] da.ca>...
    > James Donovan wrote:
    > >
    > > Stuart Brook <[email protected] > wrote in message
    > > news:<[email protected] da.ca>...
    > >
    > >
    > > > Most terrorists that you complain of are not Canadian citizens though, and you
    > > > have a whole heap of home grown terrorists, and the INS lets terrorists into
    > > > the US from all over the world, never mind from Canada.
    > >
    > > But you are missing my point. It is so easy to cross the border from Canada,
    > > citizen or not. We NEED to check people coming into our country so that at least
    > > we reduce the possibility of a terrorist sneaking in via Canada.
    > >
    > > > The INS cannot track the comings and goings of all the people coming to the US
    > > > on a reliable basis today through the I-94 system. Only a sampling of parts of
    > > > the I-94 are ever matched up. They could never keep tabs on the millions of
    > > > crossings of Canadians into the US without plugging up the border.
    > >
    > > No, they can do it with electronic I-94's and systems similar to EZ-Pass.
    >
    > They've already proven they can't do that ... They looked at that, and it would
    > plug the border.

We already have systems like E-Z pass for land borders like bridges and tunnels where
you have to pay tolls. Why would it be so difficult to use something like that for
the canadian/US border?

    > The automated Pass systems like INSpass are often down.

Excuses.

    > Moreover it requires people to check out of the US as well as in.

More excuses.

    >
    > Proportionally no more terrorists are known to have entered from Canada than in any
    > other way.

Regardless of how many, point is that it is still a loophole that needs to be closed.

James Donovan

Ken Pisichko <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:<[email protected]>...
    > James Donovan wrote:
    >
    > > [email protected] (AftonOkla) wrote in message
    > > news:<[email protected]>...
    > > > >This "honor system" has been responsible for illegal aliens crossing the
    > > > >border. We need to honor our own country only and start tracking entries and
    > > > >exits.
    > > >
    > > > They check your citizenship and ID and that is good enough. If they want to
    > > > track entry and exit for non citizens of either country, that is fine too but
    > > > as a citizen of the USA it is not anybodies business if I go to Canada or how
    > > > long I stay there.
    > >
    > > It is a business of the USA to make sure that foreigners, including canadians,
    > > do not overstay their welcome, and that we do not admit anyone who is going to
    > > kill us.
    >
    > I agree, but how can ANYONE predict who is going to kill whom? If anyone can do
    > such a prediction then I'll bet there are a LOT of police, and federal government
    > organizations that will be really happy to pay them BIG greenbacks to help stamp
    > out terrorism.

Well then that is why we need to screen EVERYONE.

Stuart Brook

Ken Pisichko wrote:

    > > A Canadian has no *right* to enter the US ... none at all. It is a privilege,
    > > and has been made a more generous privilege by the lack of need for a visa, and
    > > lack of need for a passport.
    > >
    > > Stuart
    > I wonder if it "generous" as you put it, or just common sense With the numbers of
    > people crossing North-South, I'll bet that the bureaucrats saw the need for a
    > passport as a bureaucratic nightmare. Costly to boot (in terms of manpower
    > allocation). Besides, why have a passport if not asked for? When I cross into the
    > USA with my boys I am never asked for their passports even though I bring their
    > passports.

You're setting up a straw man "If you aren't asked for a passport, why have it".
The US legal requirement is proof of citizenship and identity. That is solved either
by a birth cert (which is not a foolproof citizenship proof btw) and a gov't issued
photo ID, which could even be a School ID card!

    > A passport does not guarantee entry either, BUT a visa seems to.

Visas do NOT guarantee entry. A visa is simply permission to appear at a port of
entry to seek entry in the status of the visa. I hear cases quite routinely where
people with current visas are turned back because they don't meet the rules on *this
particular attempt at entry*. The visa is simply a way to do a prescreen that you're
likely to meet the rules before you appear at a port of entry.

Now with Canada, a visa doesn't make a lot of sense, since most Canadians are likely
to meet the requirements, and because the cost to turn people back is minimal by
comparison with flying say from the Far East.

    > Mind you, and I am VERY happy for this, the US Customs/INS types do ask the boys
    > questions if Mom is not in the car with us. This is part of the due diligence that
    > they are required to exercise. I also thank the official for doing this - and
    > specifically say thank you for asking the boys these questions.
    > While it is a bit of an inconvenience, it is better to have this inconvenience than
    > to have kids taken across the border by someone who is not authorized to do so.
    > Ken

I agree that documents are important when crossing the border. Even though I am
permitted to travel through Europe essentially on little more than a drivers license,
I always carry a passport, because I know that if there are problems it is a current
form of ID - inlikely to be more than 5 - 10 years old.


Stuart

Stuart

Stuart Brook

Ken Pisichko wrote:

    > While I can get a TN-1 visa at the border, I still need it (or a HB1) to legally
    > work south of the 49th parallel.
    >
    > Ken

No, you don't get a visa ... you get an I-94 with the indication that you were
admitted in TN status. That is not a visa. A visa is a stamp in a passport which
permits the holder to appear at a port of entry to seek admittance in the status
of the visa.

The I-94 issued is half of the document known as the Record of Arrival and Departure.
Half is kept by the INS, the other half is given to the traveller until his
departure. The theory being that the two halves can be married up to validate the
stay. Doesn't work that way .. but that's what's intended. The cost to do it is
prohibitive. And it still doesn't actually stop overstays or terrorism.

It's all a case of a sham to spend taxpayers dollars to make it LOOK like they are
protecting the USA.

Stuart

Stuart Brook

James Donovan wrote:

    > Regardless of how many, point is that it is still a loophole that needs to
    > be closed.

At what cost to your wallet ? You can screen everyone who appears at a US PoE until
you're blue in the face, and still let terrorists in. After all, even 2 of the WTC
terrorists were approved for student visas (never mind the fact that it was after
the events!)

How much are you willing to pay to make the cost of business with the USA so high
that countries will find other markets for goods and services that the US wants
and needs?

How much are you willing to pay to keep foreigners out of the US to fill jobs
companies cannot find Americans to do, driving the work offshore ?

Protectionism comes in many forms, not just duties and embargos ... You can end up
embargoing yourself.

Stuart

Sylvia Ottemoel

Ken Pisichko wrote:

    > AftonOkla wrote:

    >>>It is the business of our US national security. A terrorist can easily hide out in
    >>>Canada and come to the US.
    >>>
    >>>Canadians are NOT US citizens. They are visitors like everyone else.
    >>>
    >>Canadians are not terrorist either. They may look a bit scary at times but they
    >>are really nice folks if you get to know them. And they are not visitors like
    >>everybody else- which is why they do not need visas. They are every bit as
    >>American as you are.

    > Agreed, but they are still Canadian citizens, not US citizens. Thankfully Canadian
    > citizens do not need visas for temporary visits to the USA.

When you say "visa" here, I think you really mean "I-94," which is the INS document
which is evidence of temporary status in the U.S. Stuart explains more about this in
later posts.

I did need a J-1 when I
    > went to Minnesota to do my Ph.D.

You needed J-1 *status.* You did not need, nor did you obtain, a J-1 visa. The visa
is a seal or sticker in the passport obtained by applying at a U.S. consular post.

Also, thanks to the bureaucracy for seeing to it
    > that US citizens do not require visas for temporary visits to Canada. They do need
    > them for jobs and study purposes - just like anyone does when coming to the USA for
    > those purposes. Neither Canadian nor US citizens are exempt from study and work
    > visa requirements - just the short term visits are exempt.

Canadian citizens are exempt from the requirement from a U.S. visa for any purpose,
including study and jobs (other than for E-1 or E-2 treaty traders or investors, and
for K fiancees).

A Canadian citizen can present himself at the border with an H-1B approval notice,
for example, and be admitted to the U.S. in H-1B status, with an I-94 issued to prove
it. That Canadian need not have a H-1B visa.

Canadian citizens are exempt from the requirement for an *I-94* when entering the
U.S. as a tourist. A Canadian in the U.S. without this document is deemed to hold B-2
status valid for 6 months from the date of entry to the U.S.

    > The visa exemption for short visits is extended mutually to both countries.
    > However, that DOES NOT preclude a search/seizure and or a refusal for entry IF
    > something is not appropriate or if a Customs.immigration official becomes
    > suspicious.. I have seen it on the Canadian side (both last fall and a couple of
    > weeks ago), and 30 years ago I was not allowed into the USA at Pembina North dakota
    > because I was hitch hiking. That was the only time I was ever denied entry into the
    > USA. Since then I have crossed countless times, worked in both countries legally
    > and studied in both countries. No problem if you go by the rules.

Aftonokla

    >Wouldn't it be Canadas business?

Why should it be as long as I am not breaking any laws there?

Aftonokla

    >Afton OKA. I don't know what country your from. I assume it's the United States.
    >You're right. The United States should not have to track you, but if you go to
    >Canada and they WANT to track you, what are you going to do about it? It's not
    >your country.

It is my wife's country and if they start that shit, I will cross in Montana
uninspected.

Ken Pisichko

Thanks to Stuart and yourself for reminding me what a visa is. I looked in my old
passports and they were full of visas - Japan, Viet Nam, Afghanistan etc. But not one
for the USA. yes, I seem to remember a couple of pieces of paper that i carried in my
passport while I was in the USA.

Thank you again. Ken

Sylvia Ottemoeller wrote:

    > Ken Pisichko wrote:
    >
    > > AftonOkla wrote:
    >
    > >>>It is the business of our US national security. A terrorist can easily hide out
    > >>>in Canada and come to the US.
    > >>>
    > >>>Canadians are NOT US citizens. They are visitors like everyone else.
    > >>>
    > >>Canadians are not terrorist either. They may look a bit scary at times but they
    > >>are really nice folks if you get to know them. And they are not visitors like
    > >>everybody else- which is why they do not need visas. They are every bit as
    > >>American as you are.
    >
    > > Agreed, but they are still Canadian citizens, not US citizens. Thankfully
    > > Canadian citizens do not need visas for temporary visits to the USA.
    >
    > When you say "visa" here, I think you really mean "I-94," which is the INS document
    > which is evidence of temporary status in the U.S. Stuart explains more about this
    > in later posts.
    >
    > I did need a J-1 when I
    > > went to Minnesota to do my Ph.D.
    >
    > You needed J-1 *status.* You did not need, nor did you obtain, a J-1 visa. The visa
    > is a seal or sticker in the passport obtained by applying at a U.S. consular post.
    >
    > Also, thanks to the bureaucracy for seeing to it
    > > that US citizens do not require visas for temporary visits to Canada. They do
    > > need them for jobs and study purposes - just like anyone does when coming to the
    > > USA for those purposes. Neither Canadian nor US citizens are exempt from study
    > > and work visa requirements - just the short term visits are exempt.
    >
    > Canadian citizens are exempt from the requirement from a U.S. visa for any purpose,
    > including study and jobs (other than for E-1 or E-2 treaty traders or investors,
    > and for K fiancees).
    >
    > A Canadian citizen can present himself at the border with an H-1B approval notice,
    > for example, and be admitted to the U.S. in H-1B status, with an I-94 issued to
    > prove it. That Canadian need not have a H-1B visa.
    >
    > Canadian citizens are exempt from the requirement for an *I-94* when entering the
    > U.S. as a tourist. A Canadian in the U.S. without this document is deemed to hold
    > B-2 status valid for 6 months from the date of entry to the U.S.
    >
    > > The visa exemption for short visits is extended mutually to both countries.
    > > However, that DOES NOT preclude a search/seizure and or a refusal for entry IF
    > > something is not appropriate or if a Customs.immigration official becomes
    > > suspicious.. I have seen it on the Canadian side (both last fall and a couple of
    > > weeks ago), and 30 years ago I was not allowed into the USA at Pembina North
    > > dakota because I was hitch hiking. That was the only time I was ever denied entry
    > > into the USA. Since then I have crossed countless times, worked in both countries
    > > legally and studied in both countries. No problem if you go by the rules.