tracking canucks
Jun 9th 2002, 9:10 pm
#61
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: tracking canucks
Dept. of State issues visas.
"AftonOkla" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected]...
> >Please note that I never said that I am sure they entered through Canada. What I
> >am saying is that Canada is one possible entry point. So is Mexico. We need to
> >secure both borders.
> The most likely entry point is Miami, Chicago, NYC or any of a dozen entry points
> where even known dead terrorist can be issued a visa!
"AftonOkla" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected]...
> >Please note that I never said that I am sure they entered through Canada. What I
> >am saying is that Canada is one possible entry point. So is Mexico. We need to
> >secure both borders.
> The most likely entry point is Miami, Chicago, NYC or any of a dozen entry points
> where even known dead terrorist can be issued a visa!
Jun 9th 2002, 9:10 pm
#62
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: tracking canucks
Overseas.
"AftonOkla" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected]...
> >Please note that I never said that I am sure they entered through Canada. What I
> >am saying is that Canada is one possible entry point. So is Mexico. We need to
> >secure both borders.
> The most likely entry point is Miami, Chicago, NYC or any of a dozen entry points
> where even known dead terrorist can be issued a visa!
"AftonOkla" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected]...
> >Please note that I never said that I am sure they entered through Canada. What I
> >am saying is that Canada is one possible entry point. So is Mexico. We need to
> >secure both borders.
> The most likely entry point is Miami, Chicago, NYC or any of a dozen entry points
> where even known dead terrorist can be issued a visa!
Jun 9th 2002, 9:17 pm
#63
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: tracking canucks
Afton OKA. I don't know what country your from. I assume it's the United States.
You're right. The United States should not have to track you, but if you go to
Canada and they WANT to track you, what are you going to do about it? It's not
your country.
"AftonOkla" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected]...
> >It is quite OK for the fellow to be a taxpayer and citizen in Minneapolis with a
> >family. Unfortunately, his past indiscretion did not sit well outside
of
> >the USA. The same will be true of many aliens when they arrive at the US
border -
> >they will be subject to US legislation and if they are deemed as unfit
for
> I do not have a problem with Canadians or Americans checking my
citizenship and
> even if I am a criminal. What I have a big problem with is them keeping
track
> of my entries and exits. That I am a US citizen and have no criminal
record IS
> their business. Where I go and how long I stay is NOT their business.
You're right. The United States should not have to track you, but if you go to
Canada and they WANT to track you, what are you going to do about it? It's not
your country.
"AftonOkla" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected]...
> >It is quite OK for the fellow to be a taxpayer and citizen in Minneapolis with a
> >family. Unfortunately, his past indiscretion did not sit well outside
of
> >the USA. The same will be true of many aliens when they arrive at the US
border -
> >they will be subject to US legislation and if they are deemed as unfit
for
> I do not have a problem with Canadians or Americans checking my
citizenship and
> even if I am a criminal. What I have a big problem with is them keeping
track
> of my entries and exits. That I am a US citizen and have no criminal
record IS
> their business. Where I go and how long I stay is NOT their business.
Jun 9th 2002, 10:14 pm
#64
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: tracking canucks
AftonOkla wrote:
> >No. they could have came thru the SW border. That's why they both need to be more
> >tightly controlled.
> >
> The 9-11 terrorist came here through Miami on student visas. In fact the dumb ass
> INS just sent two the dead terrorist visa renewals! That is how ****ing dumb the US
> government is! And, instead of requiring BRAINS for employees, Bush wants to
> inconvenicnce and violate the rights of millions of US and Canadian citizens at the
> border who have done nothing wrong and have no intent of doing anything wrong.
But doesn't it LOOK like something is being done to combat terrorism?
Rights? What rights? Canadians are visitors to the USA - and all US laws apply to
them as they are aliens. Representation? Of course - that is what Canadian Embassies
and Consular offices are for. If you are detained then it gets complicated.
Ditto for US citizens coming into Canada. Canadian laws apply and the same with
representation: US Embassy staff and US Consular offices have helped more than one
USC who has brought in a handgun without declaring it (legal in the USA, BUT must be
registered in Canada).
To the complement of the US and Canadian border types, both sides have taken their
jobs seriously. If someone acted out of ignorance it seems the border types were
less willing to throw "the full force of the law" at them. I am not sure of what
happened on the US side, but on the Canadian side when an older couple brought a
handgun in and it was found during an inspection they were eventually let go with no
court appearance. I also believe that Canada Customs put up bigger signs warning
people driving from the USA to declare firearms at Canada Customs...
Ken
> >No. they could have came thru the SW border. That's why they both need to be more
> >tightly controlled.
> >
> The 9-11 terrorist came here through Miami on student visas. In fact the dumb ass
> INS just sent two the dead terrorist visa renewals! That is how ****ing dumb the US
> government is! And, instead of requiring BRAINS for employees, Bush wants to
> inconvenicnce and violate the rights of millions of US and Canadian citizens at the
> border who have done nothing wrong and have no intent of doing anything wrong.
But doesn't it LOOK like something is being done to combat terrorism?
Rights? What rights? Canadians are visitors to the USA - and all US laws apply to
them as they are aliens. Representation? Of course - that is what Canadian Embassies
and Consular offices are for. If you are detained then it gets complicated.
Ditto for US citizens coming into Canada. Canadian laws apply and the same with
representation: US Embassy staff and US Consular offices have helped more than one
USC who has brought in a handgun without declaring it (legal in the USA, BUT must be
registered in Canada).
To the complement of the US and Canadian border types, both sides have taken their
jobs seriously. If someone acted out of ignorance it seems the border types were
less willing to throw "the full force of the law" at them. I am not sure of what
happened on the US side, but on the Canadian side when an older couple brought a
handgun in and it was found during an inspection they were eventually let go with no
court appearance. I also believe that Canada Customs put up bigger signs warning
people driving from the USA to declare firearms at Canada Customs...
Ken
Jun 9th 2002, 10:16 pm
#65
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: tracking canucks
AftonOkla wrote:
> >that indicates US National Guardsmen are being trained to carry the US-issue 9mm
> >pistol as a means of protecting folks at the US Border check points. It also
> >indicates that there
> You mean that the dumb ass National Guard has finally figured out that they do not
> need to scare little kids in the airports with M-16 rifles? That maybe a sidearm
> would suffice in an area full of innocent people? How enlighted they have become.
No, in close quarters a handgun is more appropriate and flexible to use as a
defensive weapon than a rifle. That is why police use handguns - for close
quarters defense.
> >that indicates US National Guardsmen are being trained to carry the US-issue 9mm
> >pistol as a means of protecting folks at the US Border check points. It also
> >indicates that there
> You mean that the dumb ass National Guard has finally figured out that they do not
> need to scare little kids in the airports with M-16 rifles? That maybe a sidearm
> would suffice in an area full of innocent people? How enlighted they have become.
No, in close quarters a handgun is more appropriate and flexible to use as a
defensive weapon than a rifle. That is why police use handguns - for close
quarters defense.
Jun 9th 2002, 10:20 pm
#66
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: tracking canucks
Wouldn't it be Canadas business?
"AftonOkla" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> >This "honor system" has been responsible for illegal aliens crossing the border.
> >We need to honor our own country only and start tracking entries and exits.
>
> They check your citizenship and ID and that is good enough. If they want
to
> track entry and exit for non citizens of either country, that is fine too
but
> as a citizen of the USA it is not anybodies business if I go to Canada or
how
> long I stay there.
"AftonOkla" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> >This "honor system" has been responsible for illegal aliens crossing the border.
> >We need to honor our own country only and start tracking entries and exits.
>
> They check your citizenship and ID and that is good enough. If they want
to
> track entry and exit for non citizens of either country, that is fine too
but
> as a citizen of the USA it is not anybodies business if I go to Canada or
how
> long I stay there.
Jun 9th 2002, 10:20 pm
#67
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: tracking canucks
Exactly, and they can be fingerprinted too.
"AftonOkla" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> >It's kinda like people from certain countries complaining about the new
> >fingerprinting and photographing of certain nationalities. If you don't like it
> >ie, if your' Canadian and you don't like being tracked, DON't
COME
> >HERE!
>
> They have as much a right to come here as your relatives do.
"AftonOkla" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> >It's kinda like people from certain countries complaining about the new
> >fingerprinting and photographing of certain nationalities. If you don't like it
> >ie, if your' Canadian and you don't like being tracked, DON't
COME
> >HERE!
>
> They have as much a right to come here as your relatives do.
Jun 9th 2002, 10:23 pm
#68
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: tracking canucks
AftonOkla wrote:
> >They should say "May I see your documents please". If you have no documents, they
> >turn you back. By the way, try crossing the border at 2AM and you will see what I
> >mean. You can just drive right through. I know of quite a few illegal immigrants
> >who have entered via Canada. And yes, some of them are Canadian Citizens.
> A Canadian citizen should never be illegal in the USA and vice versa. The USA and
> Canada should have full residency rights for all citizens- meanning that if I wish
> to move to Toronto and work there, I should be able to do so without interference
> by either government. And if a Canadian wants to move here, the same should apply.
Unfortunately, what should happen and what happens in practice are two
different things.
> >They should say "May I see your documents please". If you have no documents, they
> >turn you back. By the way, try crossing the border at 2AM and you will see what I
> >mean. You can just drive right through. I know of quite a few illegal immigrants
> >who have entered via Canada. And yes, some of them are Canadian Citizens.
> A Canadian citizen should never be illegal in the USA and vice versa. The USA and
> Canada should have full residency rights for all citizens- meanning that if I wish
> to move to Toronto and work there, I should be able to do so without interference
> by either government. And if a Canadian wants to move here, the same should apply.
Unfortunately, what should happen and what happens in practice are two
different things.
Jun 9th 2002, 10:27 pm
#69
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: tracking canucks
AftonOkla wrote:
> >The "no documents situation" is what i saw last fall at Emerson when 2 ladies in a
> >car with a Mn Indian reserve license plate were stopped by the sole canada Customs
> >type. He
> The Injuns, under treaty, are citizens of both countries.
Yes, this is correct. However, it seems that the lady did not even have basic US
documentation. In Canada that would be something like a birth certificate or treaty
card number. Cannot say. The Canada Customs type did tell her (and i overheard this)
to please bring some proof to be admitted and there would be no difficulty.
In other words her word was not enough. Sounds like he was exercising due
diligence to me. That is what US border types do on a day-in day-out basis. same
thing for Canadian border types. Due diligence is part of their duty (to their
respective country)
> >The "no documents situation" is what i saw last fall at Emerson when 2 ladies in a
> >car with a Mn Indian reserve license plate were stopped by the sole canada Customs
> >type. He
> The Injuns, under treaty, are citizens of both countries.
Yes, this is correct. However, it seems that the lady did not even have basic US
documentation. In Canada that would be something like a birth certificate or treaty
card number. Cannot say. The Canada Customs type did tell her (and i overheard this)
to please bring some proof to be admitted and there would be no difficulty.
In other words her word was not enough. Sounds like he was exercising due
diligence to me. That is what US border types do on a day-in day-out basis. same
thing for Canadian border types. Due diligence is part of their duty (to their
respective country)
Jun 9th 2002, 10:30 pm
#70
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: tracking canucks
AftonOkla wrote:
> >Every soverign nation has the right to control it's borders. That's why.
> To a point they have that right. But they do not have any right invading the
> privacy of the public who travel between Canada and the USA which has long had
> mostly open borders.
Are you sure they do not have this right? The legislation (and enforcement
manuals) must indicate clearly what they can and cannot do - in spite of what the
citizens think.
> >Every soverign nation has the right to control it's borders. That's why.
> To a point they have that right. But they do not have any right invading the
> privacy of the public who travel between Canada and the USA which has long had
> mostly open borders.
Are you sure they do not have this right? The legislation (and enforcement
manuals) must indicate clearly what they can and cannot do - in spite of what the
citizens think.
Jun 9th 2002, 10:35 pm
#71
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: tracking canucks
[email protected] (AftonOkla) wrote in message
news:<[email protected]>...
> >They should say "May I see your documents please". If you have no documents, they
> >turn you back. By the way, try crossing the border at 2AM and you will see what I
> >mean. You can just drive right through. I know of quite a few illegal immigrants
> >who have entered via Canada. And yes, some of them are Canadian Citizens.
> A Canadian citizen should never be illegal in the USA and vice versa. The USA and
> Canada should have full residency rights for all citizens- meanning that if I wish
> to move to Toronto and work there, I should be able to do so without interference
> by either government. And if a Canadian wants to move here, the same should apply.
I don't think so. If that were the case, the traffic would only be one way and
Canada would be empty, as is happening now with easy to obtain TN visas. We hardly
have enough jobs for our own citizens in the USA you want canucks to come here?
Utter madness. Canadians should be treated as foreigners, PERIOD. If you are
Canadian, you are NOT American. You can come to visit for max 6 months at a time but
do not come to take our jobs.
news:<[email protected]>...
> >They should say "May I see your documents please". If you have no documents, they
> >turn you back. By the way, try crossing the border at 2AM and you will see what I
> >mean. You can just drive right through. I know of quite a few illegal immigrants
> >who have entered via Canada. And yes, some of them are Canadian Citizens.
> A Canadian citizen should never be illegal in the USA and vice versa. The USA and
> Canada should have full residency rights for all citizens- meanning that if I wish
> to move to Toronto and work there, I should be able to do so without interference
> by either government. And if a Canadian wants to move here, the same should apply.
I don't think so. If that were the case, the traffic would only be one way and
Canada would be empty, as is happening now with easy to obtain TN visas. We hardly
have enough jobs for our own citizens in the USA you want canucks to come here?
Utter madness. Canadians should be treated as foreigners, PERIOD. If you are
Canadian, you are NOT American. You can come to visit for max 6 months at a time but
do not come to take our jobs.
Jun 9th 2002, 10:40 pm
#72
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: tracking canucks
[email protected] (AftonOkla) wrote in message
news:<[email protected]>...
> >But you are missing my point. It is so easy to cross the border from Canada,
> >citizen or not. We NEED to check people coming into our country so that at least
> >we reduce the possibility of a terrorist sneaking in via Canada.
> If a terrorist wants in he will get in. He can just as easily sneak in from Mexico.
> Hell, about 6 million Mexicans have managed to sneak in so what are his chances of
> getting caught? Also there are many crossings from Canada to the USA that are
> completely open and people in those rural areas cross back and forth all the time.
Then we need to restrict ALL borders. I am not in favour of mexicans or people of
ANY country coming here and staying beyond their allowed invitation. If you are
coming here, for whatever purpose, you need to be inspected and we need to ensure
that you are not coming here to kill us or stay illegally and become a burden on our
society. As much as people say that illegals are benefitting the economy that is
totally wrong. They are lowering the cost of labor so that many Americans who need
jobs are forced to compete with these illegals, to which there are NO regulations
governing which wages they are paid.
news:<[email protected]>...
> >But you are missing my point. It is so easy to cross the border from Canada,
> >citizen or not. We NEED to check people coming into our country so that at least
> >we reduce the possibility of a terrorist sneaking in via Canada.
> If a terrorist wants in he will get in. He can just as easily sneak in from Mexico.
> Hell, about 6 million Mexicans have managed to sneak in so what are his chances of
> getting caught? Also there are many crossings from Canada to the USA that are
> completely open and people in those rural areas cross back and forth all the time.
Then we need to restrict ALL borders. I am not in favour of mexicans or people of
ANY country coming here and staying beyond their allowed invitation. If you are
coming here, for whatever purpose, you need to be inspected and we need to ensure
that you are not coming here to kill us or stay illegally and become a burden on our
society. As much as people say that illegals are benefitting the economy that is
totally wrong. They are lowering the cost of labor so that many Americans who need
jobs are forced to compete with these illegals, to which there are NO regulations
governing which wages they are paid.
Jun 9th 2002, 10:40 pm
#73
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: tracking canucks
Ken Pisichko wrote:
> But doesn't it LOOK like something is being done to combat terrorism?
> Rights? What rights? Canadians are visitors to the USA - and all US laws apply to
> them as they are aliens. Representation? Of course - that is what Canadian
> Embassies and Consular offices are for. If you are detained then it gets
> complicated.
A Canadian has no *right* to enter the US ... none at all. It is a privilege, and
has been made a more generous privilege by the lack of need for a visa, and lack of
need for a passport.
Stuart
> But doesn't it LOOK like something is being done to combat terrorism?
> Rights? What rights? Canadians are visitors to the USA - and all US laws apply to
> them as they are aliens. Representation? Of course - that is what Canadian
> Embassies and Consular offices are for. If you are detained then it gets
> complicated.
A Canadian has no *right* to enter the US ... none at all. It is a privilege, and
has been made a more generous privilege by the lack of need for a visa, and lack of
need for a passport.
Stuart
Jun 9th 2002, 11:20 pm
#74
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: tracking canucks
BM wrote:
> Wouldn't it be Canadas business?
>
Naturally. That is why Canada Customs and the other Canadian government types control
our borders - regardless what an "alien" thinks of themselves and their nationality.
No one gets exemption from scruteny - not even Canadians re-entering. Diplomats might
be exempt from the scruteny that we ordinary mortals are subject to.
From observation the same holds true for US control of the US perimeter.
Ken
>
> "AftonOkla" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
> > >This "honor system" has been responsible for illegal aliens crossing the border.
> > >We need to honor our own country only and start tracking entries and exits.
> >
> > They check your citizenship and ID and that is good enough. If they want
> to
> > track entry and exit for non citizens of either country, that is fine too
> but
> > as a citizen of the USA it is not anybodies business if I go to Canada or
> how
> > long I stay there.
> >
> >
> Wouldn't it be Canadas business?
>
Naturally. That is why Canada Customs and the other Canadian government types control
our borders - regardless what an "alien" thinks of themselves and their nationality.
No one gets exemption from scruteny - not even Canadians re-entering. Diplomats might
be exempt from the scruteny that we ordinary mortals are subject to.
From observation the same holds true for US control of the US perimeter.
Ken
>
> "AftonOkla" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
> > >This "honor system" has been responsible for illegal aliens crossing the border.
> > >We need to honor our own country only and start tracking entries and exits.
> >
> > They check your citizenship and ID and that is good enough. If they want
> to
> > track entry and exit for non citizens of either country, that is fine too
> but
> > as a citizen of the USA it is not anybodies business if I go to Canada or
> how
> > long I stay there.
> >
> >
Jun 10th 2002, 1:08 am
#75
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: tracking canucks
James Donovan wrote:
> [email protected] (AftonOkla) wrote in message
> news:<[email protected]>...
> > >They should say "May I see your documents please". If you have no documents,
> > >they turn you back. By the way, try crossing the border at 2AM and you will see
> > >what I mean. You can just drive right through. I know of quite a few illegal
> > >immigrants who have entered via Canada. And yes, some of them are Canadian
> > >Citizens.
> >
> > A Canadian citizen should never be illegal in the USA and vice versa. The USA and
> > Canada should have full residency rights for all citizens- meanning that if I
> > wish to move to Toronto and work there, I should be able to do so without
> > interference by either government. And if a Canadian wants to move here, the same
> > should apply.
> I don't think so. If that were the case, the traffic would only be one way and
> Canada would be empty, as is happening now with easy to obtain TN visas. We hardly
> have enough jobs for our own citizens in the USA you want canucks to come here?
> Utter madness. Canadians should be treated as foreigners, PERIOD. If you are
> Canadian, you are NOT American. You can come to visit for max 6 months at a time
> but do not come to take our jobs.
And what do you think business will do when "your " jobs cannot be filled by USCs? I
guess we all know the answer to that one - another nation with expertise will take up
that particular niche in the global economy. Microsoft has been doing that for years
- farming "your" jobs to offshore people. No problem for Microsoft is it? Look at
their stock prices in the last few years.
Ken
> [email protected] (AftonOkla) wrote in message
> news:<[email protected]>...
> > >They should say "May I see your documents please". If you have no documents,
> > >they turn you back. By the way, try crossing the border at 2AM and you will see
> > >what I mean. You can just drive right through. I know of quite a few illegal
> > >immigrants who have entered via Canada. And yes, some of them are Canadian
> > >Citizens.
> >
> > A Canadian citizen should never be illegal in the USA and vice versa. The USA and
> > Canada should have full residency rights for all citizens- meanning that if I
> > wish to move to Toronto and work there, I should be able to do so without
> > interference by either government. And if a Canadian wants to move here, the same
> > should apply.
> I don't think so. If that were the case, the traffic would only be one way and
> Canada would be empty, as is happening now with easy to obtain TN visas. We hardly
> have enough jobs for our own citizens in the USA you want canucks to come here?
> Utter madness. Canadians should be treated as foreigners, PERIOD. If you are
> Canadian, you are NOT American. You can come to visit for max 6 months at a time
> but do not come to take our jobs.
And what do you think business will do when "your " jobs cannot be filled by USCs? I
guess we all know the answer to that one - another nation with expertise will take up
that particular niche in the global economy. Microsoft has been doing that for years
- farming "your" jobs to offshore people. No problem for Microsoft is it? Look at
their stock prices in the last few years.
Ken