James Donovan

Stuart Brook <[email protected] > wrote in message
news:<[email protected] da.ca>...

    > You make it sound like Canadians crossing the border are subject to no inspection
    > whatsoever. That has never been the case. In the last few years, even before Sep.
    > 11, the documentation requirement has been more rigidly enforced, although not
    > consistently, and one still meets, even today, "Citizenship?" "Canadian" "OK" ...

That should not be the end of it. They should say "May I see your documents please".
If you have no documents, they turn you back. By the way, try crossing the border at
2AM and you will see what I mean. You can just drive right through. I know of quite a
few illegal immigrants who have entered via Canada. And yes, some of them are
Canadian Citizens.

Ken Pisichko

In today's winnipeg Free press (our local paper here) there is an article dateline
Monpelier (Spelling) VT that indicates US National Guardsmen are being trained to
carry the US-issue 9mm pistol as a means of protecting folks at the US Border check
points. It also indicates that there are 5 states where US National Guardsmen are
serving along with US Customs, Border patrol and INS personnel.

If they are needed, then by all means have them present. I really hope the additional
troops will help. I wonder what the cost to the US taxpayer will be? Where will folks
in Canada and even in the USA be able to find out? Any ideas?

I sincerely hopes this situation will help foil any terrorists. If it does then it is
money well spent. I noticed in the article that drug and illicit goods seizures have
increased since the increased searches have begun on the US side of the border.
Naturally, this is a good thing, but the smugglers will merely become more
"inventive" in their activities.

Ken James Donovan wrote:

    > Ken Pisichko <[email protected]> wrote in message
    > news:<[email protected]>...
    > > Are you SURE that the "terrorists" came into the USA via Canada? Where, pray tell
    > > is this information available for casual observation? I have noticed retractions
    > > by US media and "other folks jumping on this bandwagon.
    >
    > Please note that I never said that I am sure they entered through Canada. What I am
    > saying is that Canada is one possible entry point. So is Mexico. We need to secure
    > both borders.
    >
    > >
    > > Besides, is not the US Border Patrol/ Customs/ INS responsible for who is allowed
    > > into the USA?
    >
    > Yes, I never said otherwise.
    >
    > > I understand that the Canadian government is responsible for who Canada lets into
    > > their "perimeter". Why should Canada worry about another country's immigration
    > > policy?
    >
    > I never said tha tthey should.

Ken Pisichko

James Donovan wrote:

    > Stuart Brook <[email protected] > wrote in message
    > news:<[email protected] da.ca>...
    >
    > > You make it sound like Canadians crossing the border are subject to no inspection
    > > whatsoever. That has never been the case. In the last few years, even before Sep.
    > > 11, the documentation requirement has been more rigidly enforced, although not
    > > consistently, and one still meets, even today, "Citizenship?" "Canadian" "OK" ...
    >
    > That should not be the end of it. They should say "May I see your documents
    > please". If you have no documents, they turn you back. By the way, try crossing the
    > border at 2AM and you will see what I mean. You can just drive right through. I
    > know of quite a few illegal immigrants who have entered via Canada. And yes, some
    > of them are Canadian Citizens.

The "no documents situation" is what i saw last fall at Emerson when 2 ladies in a
car with a Mn Indian reserve license plate were stopped by the sole canada Customs
type. He told one lady she could enter canada but denied entry to the other lady
stating that she had to show proof of citizenship before she could enter. Everyone
was quite polite, but I'll bet the two ladies were quite peeved.

No problem with asking for "documents" I carry them for myself, the boys and the dog.
My docs are the worst of all: picture ID (driver's license) birth certificate (no
picture) and medical cards. The boys have their pass ports (because they went to
Ukraine last year). The dog has vet papers (and they indicate his tattoo. The tattoo
idea is a good one in my opinion - but there still is a stigma from WW II regarding
tattoos for human IDs. Not much you can do to a tattoo, but then I guess someone
could copy the ID number. Retina scans perhaps? Now that is going to the edge of "big
brother" etc.

OTOH, I will face an incredible amount of paperwork when I move to the USA to start a
second career as a high school Chemistry/Physics and/or Math teacher, or as a teacher
at a post-secondary college/university.

Why should I bother doing this instead of just crossing the border and finding a job?
Easy - because of the pay and benefits. Not enough USCs to fill those kinds of jobs.
Not even with "Troops to Teachers" programs. Besides public education (and
University/Community College) systems are bureaucratic and thrive on paperwork.

Yes, I suppose I could "get a job" by just driving into the USA, but why bother? I
would not have any medical coverage or any other benefits would I? It is amazing how
desperate some folks can be, but not this guy. Fair working conditions and fair pay
get good work out of me.

As an aside, crossing the border after midnight at Noyes/Emerson will get you into
big doo-doo at the US side or Canadian side. Try it There is a LOT more
surveillance now than in years gone by.

Ken

Ken Pisichko

AftonOkla wrote:

    > >It is the business of our US national security. A terrorist can easily hide out in
    > >Canada and come to the US.
    > >
    > >Canadians are NOT US citizens. They are visitors like everyone else.
    >
    > Canadians are not terrorist either. They may look a bit scary at times but they
    > are really nice folks if you get to know them. And they are not visitors like
    > everybody else- which is why they do not need visas. They are every bit as
    > American as you are.

Agreed, but they are still Canadian citizens, not US citizens. Thankfully Canadian
citizens do not need visas for temporary visits to the USA. I did need a J-1 when I
went to Minnesota to do my Ph.D. Also, thanks to the bureaucracy for seeing to it
that US citizens do not require visas for temporary visits to Canada. They do need
them for jobs and study purposes - just like anyone does when coming to the USA for
those purposes. Neither Canadian nor US citizens are exempt from study and work visa
requirements - just the short term visits are exempt.

The visa exemption for short visits is extended mutually to both countries. However,
that DOES NOT preclude a search/seizure and or a refusal for entry IF something is
not appropriate or if a Customs.immigration official becomes suspicious.. I have seen
it on the Canadian side (both last fall and a couple of weeks ago), and 30 years ago
I was not allowed into the USA at Pembina North dakota because I was hitch hiking.
That was the only time I was ever denied entry into the USA. Since then I have
crossed countless times, worked in both countries legally and studied in both
countries. No problem if you go by the rules.

Ken

Aftonokla

    >They should say "May I see your documents please". If you have no documents, they
    >turn you back. By the way, try crossing the border at 2AM and you will see what I
    >mean. You can just drive right through. I know of quite a few illegal immigrants who
    >have entered via Canada. And yes, some of them are Canadian Citizens.

A Canadian citizen should never be illegal in the USA and vice versa. The USA and
Canada should have full residency rights for all citizens- meanning that if I wish to
move to Toronto and work there, I should be able to do so without interference by
either government. And if a Canadian wants to move here, the same should apply.

Aftonokla

    >The "no documents situation" is what i saw last fall at Emerson when 2 ladies in
    >a car with a Mn Indian reserve license plate were stopped by the sole canada
    >Customs type. He

The Injuns, under treaty, are citizens of both countries.

Aftonokla

    >If it is for the good of the USA, why pray tell, cannot it ALSO be for the good of
    >Canada, or England, or.... Just think of how many STAZI or KGB types of
    >alien-tracking policeniks it will keep employed in EACH country implementing this
    >system. And in each country (including the USA) that means the

Sooner or later the country will get over this mass parinoia being fed by George Bush
and the mass media. After a dozen "terrorist warnings" of imminet attack and nothing
happens, you would figure that people would wise up and quit letting Bush and the
media think for them. And quit trying to take out their unfounded fears on the poor
Canadians.

Aftonokla

    >It's kinda like people from certain countries complaining about the new
    >fingerprinting and photographing of certain nationalities. If you don't like it ie,
    >if your' Canadian and you don't like being tracked, DON't COME HERE!

They have as much a right to come here as your relatives do.

Aftonokla

    >It is quite OK for the fellow to be a taxpayer and citizen in Minneapolis with a
    >family. Unfortunately, his past indiscretion did not sit well outside of the USA.
    >The same will be true of many aliens when they arrive at the US border - they will
    >be subject to US legislation and if they are deemed as unfit for

I do not have a problem with Canadians or Americans checking my citizenship and even
if I am a criminal. What I have a big problem with is them keeping track of my
entries and exits. That I am a US citizen and have no criminal record IS their
business. Where I go and how long I stay is NOT their business.

Aftonokla

    >Every soverign nation has the right to control it's borders. That's why.

To a point they have that right. But they do not have any right invading the
privacy of the public who travel between Canada and the USA which has long had
mostly open borders.

Aftonokla

    >No. they could have came thru the SW border. That's why they both need to be more
    >tightly controlled.

The 9-11 terrorist came here through Miami on student visas. In fact the dumb ass INS
just sent two the dead terrorist visa renewals! That is how ****ing dumb the US
government is! And, instead of requiring BRAINS for employees, Bush wants to
inconvenicnce and violate the rights of millions of US and Canadian citizens at the
border who have done nothing wrong and have no intent of doing anything wrong.

Aftonokla

    >Please note that I never said that I am sure they entered through Canada. What I am
    >saying is that Canada is one possible entry point. So is Mexico. We need to secure
    >both borders.

The most likely entry point is Miami, Chicago, NYC or any of a dozen entry points
where even known dead terrorist can be issued a visa!

Aftonokla

    >that indicates US National Guardsmen are being trained to carry the US-issue 9mm
    >pistol as a means of protecting folks at the US Border check points. It also
    >indicates that there

You mean that the dumb ass National Guard has finally figured out that they do not
need to scare little kids in the airports with M-16 rifles? That maybe a sidearm
would suffice in an area full of innocent people? How enlighted they have become.

Stuart Brook

AftonOkla wrote:
    > >They should say "May I see your documents please". If you have no documents, they
    > >turn you back. By the way, try crossing the border at 2AM and you will see what I
    > >mean. You can just drive right through. I know of quite a few illegal immigrants
    > >who have entered via Canada. And yes, some of them are Canadian Citizens.
    > A Canadian citizen should never be illegal in the USA and vice versa. The USA and
    > Canada should have full residency rights for all citizens- meanning that if I wish
    > to move to Toronto and work there, I should be able to do so without interference
    > by either government. And if a Canadian wants to move here, the same should apply.

While the EU has job mobility like that, I doubt that it will happen here.

The fact that the US is the Elephant and Canada is the mouse will ensure things tend
to drain one way.

Aftonokla

    >While the EU has job mobility like that, I doubt that it will happen here.
    >The fact that the US is the Elephant and Canada is the mouse will ensure things tend
    >to drain one way.

That is why, in a few years, I predict that the EU will be a powerhouse while the USA
will wane. You already see it in some things like Airbuss Industrie vs Boeing, steel
and other things. Those countries recognize that their own best interest is in being
together. The USA and Canada would be better off working together instead of apart.