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Old Oct 4th 2006, 3:24 pm   #1
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Default Social security and giving up US citizenship

If you renounce US citizenship does it affect your social security benefits?
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Old Oct 4th 2006, 9:44 pm   #2
 
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Default Re: Social security and giving up US citizenship

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Originally Posted by nun
If you renounce US citizenship does it affect your social security benefits?
Depends on the country of citizenship you pick up. If you are a citizen of some countries your Social Security benefits will stop after you have been outside the U.S. for 6 months and will not begin again until you have been in the U.S. for a month.

You also have alien tax withholding from your Social Security benefits if you are not a U.S. citizen and live outside the U.S.

https://s044a90.ssa.gov/apps10/poms.nsf/lnx/0200303200
GN 00303.200 Loss of U.S. Citizenship or Nationality

http://www.ssa.gov/pubs/10137.html
Your Payments While You Are Outside The United States
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Old Oct 5th 2006, 3:49 am   #3
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Default Re: Social security and giving up US citizenship

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Originally Posted by nun
If you renounce US citizenship does it affect your social security benefits?
Why would you want to do that?
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Old Oct 5th 2006, 3:55 am   #4
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Default Re: Social security and giving up US citizenship

Quote:
Originally Posted by JAJ
Why would you want to do that?
might have had a windfall abroad from a tax free country and not want to pay uncle Sam?

want security clearance abroad?

want citizenship from another country that doesn't allow dual citizenship?
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Old Oct 5th 2006, 5:22 am   #5
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Default Re: Social security and giving up US citizenship

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob
might have had a windfall abroad from a tax free country and not want to pay uncle Sam?

want security clearance abroad?

want citizenship from another country that doesn't allow dual citizenship?
a. Probably too late to avoid tax.
b. Would probably still be "suspect" even after renunciation (and if job was ever lost, citizenship couldn't be reclaimed)
c. May not be a very good bargain.
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Old Oct 5th 2006, 4:06 pm   #6
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Default Re: Social security and giving up US citizenship

Bob wrote:
    >> Why would you want to do that?
    >
    > might have had a windfall abroad from a tax free country and not want to
    > pay uncle Sam?
    >
    > want security clearance abroad?
    >
    > want citizenship from another country that doesn't allow dual
    > citizenship?
    >

Seems a rather drastic step. It's renunciation of US citizenship
irreversible?
 
Old Oct 5th 2006, 5:44 pm   #7
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Default Re: Social security and giving up US citizenship

Quote:
Originally Posted by L D Jones

Seems a rather drastic step. It's renunciation of US citizenship
irreversible?
Don't think it is, and if you do it for tax purposes you won't be allowed into the US or something in the future.
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Old Oct 5th 2006, 5:58 pm   #8
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Default Re: Social security and giving up US citizenship

L D Jones wrote:
    > Bob wrote:
    > >> Why would you want to do that?
    > >
    > > might have had a windfall abroad from a tax free country and not want to
    > > pay uncle Sam?
    > >
    > > want security clearance abroad?
    > >
    > > want citizenship from another country that doesn't allow dual
    > > citizenship?
    > >
    > Seems a rather drastic step. It's renunciation of US citizenship
    > irreversible?

It is irreversible. Additionally, if the government believes that the
renunciation is done to avoid US taxation, the person is barred from
ever entering the US, even as a visitor.
 
Old Oct 6th 2006, 11:05 pm   #9
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Default Re: Social security and giving up US citizenship

<Why would you want to do that?

"JAJ" <member23519@british_expats.com> wrote in message
news:34$400319$3980851$1160016546@britishexpats.co m...

maybe he doesn't walk around wearing rose coloured glasses like many of the
other fools here.
 
Old Oct 6th 2006, 11:11 pm   #10
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Default Re: Social security and giving up US citizenship

The whole thing is bizarre.

If I wanted Dutch citizenship (my husband's nationality) I would be required to renounce my American citizenship.

Say we lived in the Netherlands and my husband died, and I wanted to live in the US with my daughters.

Could they petition for me, as their mother and an immediate relative, or would I be barred?
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Old Oct 7th 2006, 4:25 am   #11
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Default Re: Social security and giving up US citizenship

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Originally Posted by snowbunny
The whole thing is bizarre.

If I wanted Dutch citizenship (my husband's nationality) I would be required to renounce my American citizenship.
Are you sure about that? Since 2003, the Netherlands has made an exception to its rules restricting dual citizenship for spouses of Dutch citizens.
http://www.mfa.nl/ott/visas_and_cons...ch_nationality

And for information on naturalisation as Dutch, it's suggested to look at http://www.ind.nl
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Old Oct 7th 2006, 6:44 am   #12
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Default Re: Social security and giving up US citizenship

Quote:
Originally Posted by JAJ
Are you sure about that? Since 2003, the Netherlands has made an exception to its rules restricting dual citizenship for spouses of Dutch citizens.
http://www.mfa.nl/ott/visas_and_cons...ch_nationality
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dutch_n...ship_by_option

This is murky. You are in theory allowed to retain your original citizenship if married to a Dutch citizen but if you try to do so the government may object and refuse to grant you citizenship. The trend is to try and bar dual nationals -- even if born there, you automatically lose citizenship if you live outside the Netherlands for a continuous 10 year period. There are hoops to jump through to get it back or to keep it.... but these laws are likely to continue to change.

And unless I live in NL for 15 years, I have to pass the language test!

I still want the "Good Citizen Of Any Country" passport.
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Old Oct 7th 2006, 5:42 pm   #13
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Default Re: Social security and giving up US citizenship

Quote:
Originally Posted by snowbunny
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dutch_n...ship_by_option

This is murky. You are in theory allowed to retain your original citizenship if married to a Dutch citizen but if you try to do so the government may object and refuse to grant you citizenship.
You'd need to see a Dutch lawyer in that case. There is both the option procedure and naturalisation to consider.

Quote:
The trend is to try and bar dual nationals
These rules only date from 2003. Prior to then it was stricter.

Quote:
-- even if born there, you automatically lose citizenship if you live outside the Netherlands for a continuous 10 year period.
Not if you keep renewing your Dutch passport on time.

Should your husband become a U.S. citizen he may be allowed to keep Dutch citizenship. From the Ministry of Foreign Affairs website:

"I am a Dutch citizen and would like to acquire another nationality. What are the consequences for my Dutch nationality?

If you acquired another nationality voluntarily before 1 April 2003, you automatically lost your Dutch nationality.

If you voluntarily acquired another nationality on or after 1 April 2003, under the amended Act you still lost your Dutch nationality, but the following exceptions apply since that date.

You will not lose your Dutch nationality:

a) if you were born in the country of your other nationality and have your principal residence there when you acquire the nationality of that country;

b) if, before you turned 18, you had your principal residence in the country of your other nationality for an uninterrupted period of five years;

c) if you are married to a person who possesses the nationality you wish to acquire."
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Old Oct 11th 2006, 3:02 pm   #14
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Default Re: Social security and giving up US citizenship

Quote:
Originally Posted by JAJ
a. Probably too late to avoid tax.
b. Would probably still be "suspect" even after renunciation (and if job was ever lost, citizenship couldn't be reclaimed)
c. May not be a very good bargain.
There was a recent change in the US expatriation law so that if your net worth is under $2M you can give up US citizenship and its assumed you did NOT do it for tax purposes - so you don't have to do US taxes anymore.

My basic position is I'm a UK/US dual citizen with most of my assets in the UK. However, the US tax laws make it difficult for me to invest in the UK, UK unit trusts and REITs have crippling US taxation, and my taxes are pretty complicated. I'm just looking into my options.
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Old Oct 12th 2006, 5:55 am   #15
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Default Re: Social security and giving up US citizenship

Quote:
Originally Posted by nun
My basic position is I'm a UK/US dual citizen with most of my assets in the UK. However, the US tax laws make it difficult for me to invest in the UK, UK unit trusts and REITs have crippling US taxation, and my taxes are pretty complicated. I'm just looking into my options.
Giving up U.S. citizenship is a pretty drastic step. Especially as there's no way to get it back later on should you change your mind.

Why not just stick to simpler investments : eg buy shares and real estate directly rather than through unit trusts. Avoids the financial company charges too.
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