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Old Sep 3rd 2008, 4:01 pm   #31
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Default Re: Re-Entry Despite Visa Waiver Overstay Years Ago?

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Originally Posted by uk_traveller View Post
I've advised her to go for it, but be aware it has a good chance of not working, meaning she won't get in and will be sent straight home. That said, I'm confident her leaving on a cancelled passport and coming back in on a new one, will put her in good stead.

I'll certainly report back on what happened, just for the record.

PS If she does go across, I'll let you know what happened. I hope she proves some of you wrong!
Will you take all the flak and expense if it goes tits up? By the way, have you really read what the visa waiver you sign actually says? Here are a couple of pertinent bits of it.

PS. I really hope she doesn't prove us wrong because it's a slap in the face to everyone who do things legally when people think they are above the law and can do whatever they want. Which she is doing regardless of what you think.
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Old Sep 3rd 2008, 4:33 pm   #32
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Default Re: Re-Entry Despite Visa Waiver Overstay Years Ago?

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Will you take all the flak and expense if it goes tits up? By the way, have you really read what the visa waiver you sign actually says? Here are a couple of pertinent bits of it.

PS. I really hope she doesn't prove us wrong because it's a slap in the face to everyone who do things legally when people think they are above the law and can do whatever they want. Which she is doing regardless of what you think.
I hope she gets caught.

People who seem to think it's fine to ignore the laws of another country, and stay there illegally just because they want to, and then get away with it again... not me.

I just wish you could be tossed in jail alongside her to share the experience.

I have lots of sympathy for people who've made mistakes, learned from them, and work within the system. Our system, or another country's. But those who think breaking the law is fine, repeatedly...
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Old Sep 3rd 2008, 4:34 pm   #33
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Default Re: Re-Entry Despite Visa Waiver Overstay Years Ago?

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Originally Posted by uk_traveller View Post
Well thanks for this. I was forewarned of the disproportionately hostile nature of some who like to pretend to be judge and jury on BritishExpats before I posted here, but considering that this has been a helpful exercise. Thanks again.

PS If she does go across, I'll let you know what happened. I hope she proves some of you wrong!
we can only give our opinions. She chose to do the deed a while ago and now must face the consequences. If she doesnt like our opinions thats fine - but they were asked for and honestly given. Id hope the integrity of the forum (ie advising anyone to stick within the law rather than bend rules) was a better thing than just saying ' sure - go for it - no worries - especially when its not us stuck in secondary or being deported etc.
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Old Sep 3rd 2008, 4:37 pm   #34
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Default Re: Re-Entry Despite Visa Waiver Overstay Years Ago?

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I hope she gets caught.

I just wish you could be tossed in jail alongside her to share the experience
Heh, well that brought a smile to my face, thanks!

She was young, she made a mistake, she's deliberately not gone back, even missing her brother's (I think) wedding and now she wants a ten day break, and you want her and her friends thrown in jail?!

Only in America

MsElui, thanks for your more rational response. I appreciate the responses, and while I'm bemused by the aggression from some, it's all helpful so thanks.
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Old Sep 3rd 2008, 4:38 pm   #35
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Default Re: Re-Entry Despite Visa Waiver Overstay Years Ago?

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Originally Posted by Duncan Roberts View Post
Will you take all the flak and expense if it goes tits up? By the way, have you really read what the visa waiver you sign actually says? Here are a couple of pertinent bits of it.

PS. I really hope she doesn't prove us wrong because it's a slap in the face to everyone who do things legally when people think they are above the law and can do whatever they want. Which she is doing regardless of what you think.
And I really hope she does because it would seem like even when you do things 'in their proper order' they dont work out with these people anyway,I'm sure that she would rather go the official route but the cold hard facts are that she almost certainly will NOT get in again EVER. so Good Luck to her and anybody else who 'bucks the system' until they revise their Draconian ways. Anyway if she clears immigration at Shannon or Dublin she need not worry about spending a night in the cells or extra expense of being returned
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Old Sep 3rd 2008, 4:40 pm   #36
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Default Re: Re-Entry Despite Visa Waiver Overstay Years Ago?

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Originally Posted by uk_traveller View Post
But you're not banned until you attempt to re-enter
The ban already exists. An overstay of more than a year is a 10 year bar. It's just a matter of if they recognize that the ban is in place or not when she gets to the border.
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Old Sep 3rd 2008, 4:41 pm   #37
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Default Re: Re-Entry Despite Visa Waiver Overstay Years Ago?

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Originally Posted by uk_traveller View Post


Heh, well that brought a smile to my face, thanks!

She was young, she made a mistake, she's deliberately not gone back, even missing her brother's (I think) wedding and now she wants a ten day break, and you want her and her friends thrown in jail?!

Only in America

MsElui, thanks for your more rational response. I appreciate the responses, and while I'm bemused by the aggression from some, it's all helpful so thanks.
You more than her frankly - advising her to break the law.

Perhaps you don't realise - she probably WILL be thrown in jail. That's where she will likely be detained, before she is deported. Did you think they'll just let her stroll around the airport and go shopping until she flies home? Most likely the next flight will be the next morning.

She made a mistake - fine. She has to pay the price of it. She wants a ten day break... well I want a million dollars. She can take a break anywhere she likes - except the country she's banned from for breaking the law.

If she can find a way to come back legally - then I welcome her. Not until then.
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Old Sep 3rd 2008, 4:54 pm   #38
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Default Re: Re-Entry Despite Visa Waiver Overstay Years Ago?

uk_traveller, I don't mind what you recommend to people. But I do wonder why you bothered asking if, regardless of what you were told, you're still going to recommend to try anyway.

If I decide to drive at 40mph in a 30 limit on the way home today, that's my choice. I don't go on forums asking "do ya fink it'll be alright?".

If your friend wants to risk deportation, that's her choice. But don't expect people on here to say that's great, no more than I should expect people to tell me driving 10mph over the speed limit is a fantastic idea.
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Old Sep 3rd 2008, 4:59 pm   #39
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Default Re: Re-Entry Despite Visa Waiver Overstay Years Ago?

Without telling us when she's traveling or through which POE (I'm sure you wouldn't), when will you be able to let us know, give or take a week? So we can keep an eye out for your post.

All the best...
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Old Sep 3rd 2008, 5:36 pm   #40
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Default Re: Re-Entry Despite Visa Waiver Overstay Years Ago?

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Originally Posted by uk_traveller View Post
I've advised her to go for it, but be aware it has a good chance of not working, meaning she won't get in and will be sent straight home. That said, I'm confident her leaving on a cancelled passport and coming back in on a new one, will put her in good stead.

I'll certainly report back on what happened, just for the record.
You're saying her attempting to gain entry has a 'good chance' of NOT working, but you are 'confident' that the cancelled passport business will save her ? I'm confused here.

FWIW I am fairly certain that the fact that she has a new passport will not, in and of itself, be a way to hide her previous overstay. If it was that easy everyone who had a ban could just 'lose' their passport and side step the ban. I'll grant you that the US Dept of Homeland Security is a creaky and inefficient bureaucracy in many ways, but they are not quite that dumb. I strongly suspect that they match people uniquely in their system by using name, date of birth and place of birth together, rather than the passport number. The fact that all three id's appear in one's passport makes it much harder to get around the system by changing one of them. Have you ever wondered why you have to enter your place of birth on every visa application, regardless of the country ?

If your friend does go ahead she might want to arrange to arrive on an early flight to minimize the very real possibility she will be put in a holding cell for at least one night to await the flight home. Also she should expect, if caught, to be subjected to some fairly serious questioning by CBP. One year overstay + immigration fraud is not a very nice combination as far as they are concerned.

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Old Sep 3rd 2008, 5:52 pm   #41
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Default Re: Re-Entry Despite Visa Waiver Overstay Years Ago?

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Originally Posted by newXgate View Post
You're saying her attempting to gain entry has a 'good chance' of NOT working, but you are 'confident' that the cancelled passport business will save her ? I'm confused here.

FWIW I am fairly certain that the fact that she has a new passport will not, in and of itself, be a way to hide her previous overstay. If it was that easy everyone who had a ban could just 'lose' their passport and side step the ban. I'll grant you that the US Dept of Homeland Security is a creaky and inefficient bureaucracy in many ways, but they are not quite that dumb. I strongly suspect that they match people uniquely in their system by using name, date of birth and place of birth together, rather than the passport number. The fact that all three id's appear in one's passport makes it much harder to get around the system by changing one of them. Have you ever wondered why you have to enter your place of birth on every visa application, regardless of the country ?

If your friend does go ahead she might want to arrange to arrive on an early flight to minimize the very real possibility she will be put in a holding cell for at least one night to await the flight home. Also she should expect, if caught, to be subjected to some fairly serious questioning by CBP. One year overstay + immigration fraud is not a very nice combination as far as they are concerned.
I wonder, as it is intentional, if it could be fraud and a criminal offense? Subject to worse than just being sent home?
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Old Sep 3rd 2008, 5:57 pm   #42
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Default Re: Re-Entry Despite Visa Waiver Overstay Years Ago?

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I wonder, as it is intentional, if it could be fraud and a criminal offense? Subject to worse than just being sent home?
It possibly could, but impossible to prove. I wonder if the OP has also warned about the potential airline and long term immigration issues that could arise should they be sent back
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Old Sep 3rd 2008, 6:00 pm   #43
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Default Re: Re-Entry Despite Visa Waiver Overstay Years Ago?

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I wonder, as it is intentional, if it could be fraud and a criminal offense? Subject to worse than just being sent home?
Actually, I just looked at the I94-W form and realized that it does not ask about previous overstays, just removal/deportation. So although you cannot use the VW scheme to enter with a prior overstay, the mere act of attempting to enter using the VW might not in fact amount to fraud, so what I said about immigration fraud in my prior post may not hold.

With that said, an attempt to enter and break the 10 year ban after a 1 year overstay is likely to be taken quite seriously by the CBP. I would expect some pretty aggressive questioning to take place before she leaves, not to mention possibility of being held in a cell if a flight can't be found the same day.
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Old Sep 3rd 2008, 6:29 pm   #44
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Default Re: Re-Entry Despite Visa Waiver Overstay Years Ago?

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Well thanks for this. I was forewarned of the disproportionately hostile nature of some who like to pretend to be judge and jury on BritishExpats before I posted here, but considering that this has been a helpful exercise. Thanks again.
Who forewarned you of this? Where?
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Old Sep 3rd 2008, 6:40 pm   #45
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Default Re: Re-Entry Despite Visa Waiver Overstay Years Ago?

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I was forewarned of the disproportionately hostile nature of some...
WTF? Are you suggesting that you honestly thought that anyone here would actually support your friend's attempt to break the law? You can advise your friend to do whatever you want... it certainly doesn't mean that we agree with or support those actions.

We are trying to keep her out of prison... you are suggesting she thumb her nose at US law. Who's got the moral high ground here? You need a bit of an attitude adjustment!

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