One Life

Understood, crg.
Then, even if I were successful in a land crossing, would it count against me in the future, like I did something illegal, even if I disclosed the visa and ESTA denials?

RICH

I am thinking, regardless of the op's situation, ESTA has provided seriously enhanced "vetting" of potential travellers. Authorities can now determine if one should even be allowed on the plane, as opposed to a few years ago filling in a form on the flight, claiming eligibility.

MarylandNed

DHS Trip is not for people who have been denied ESTA's. If an ESTA is denied and you still want to travel, the next step is a nonimmigrant visa application.

https://help.cbp.gov/app/answers/det...ication-denied

What should I do if I am not approved for travel through ESTA?
If an ESTA application is denied and you wish to continue with the trip, you will be required to apply for a nonimmigrant visa at a U.S. Embassy or Consulate.


http://www.dhs.gov/dhs-trip

Who Should Use DHS TRIP?
People who have been denied or delayed airline boarding; have been denied or delayed entry into or exit from the U.S. at a port of entry or border crossing; or have been repeatedly referred to additional (secondary) screening can file an inquiry to seek redress.

crg

That would be impossible to know. It would depend on how the attempt is perceived by the next consular officer.

One Life

Thanks again, crg; that makes sense.

Yeasser, do you know of other people who have tried to cross the border with a denied ESTA and/or visa, and if so, what was the outcome?

I know you had a ESTA denied and still went through at the Canadian border, but I don't know if that outcome is common, or if it was an exception to the rule.

Thanks!

ian-mstm

Respectfully, I submit that it doesn't matter. Even if it's common, you might still be stopped... and if it's an exception, you might still get through. You'll never know until you try... but if you don't try, you'll never know.

Ian

One Life

Ian, you're right. But my situation is perhaps worse than Yasser's, because he had a denied ESTA but no visa denied or approved, and I have a denied B2 visa under 214(b).
So, I'm trying to see if other people in the same situation tried to cross the border and what the outcome was. I know other people's outcome won't guarantee my outcome if I were to try it, but I'd have more information in which to base my decision.

I believe it was crg who warned about making decisions basely solely on one example, because apparently unusual/inconsistent things are known to happen at the border.

jeffreyhy

No, you wouldn't really have more inforamation. Not useful information, any way, because no other person is in the same situation except at the most superficial level. The devil is always in the details, and everyone always has their own, different, details.

My thought is that you might be better off trying to understand and overcome the reasons for the denial of your B-visa application.

Regards, JEff

Steve_

Can I just point out here that this whole idea of going through Canada or alternatively flagpoling in Canada for whatever reason is going to become a moot point soon because of the border deal signed between the US and Canada last year.

Canada will shortly introduce its own version of ESTA and the databases will be linked, so if you get denied for ESTA you will get denied for the Canadian equivalent, which last time I heard was going to be called CETA, the Canadian Electronic Travel Authorization programme.

Also currently there is an information sharing agreement between CBSA and CBP but this will be made more thorough, so they no longer need to ask each other questions, they will have direct access to each others entry records, so if you show up at a Canadian airport they can see CBP's notations and vice versa.

They haven't yet kept to any of the implementation dates for anything in the agreement so there's no point my quoting them, but it is coming in the relatively near future.

One Life

Thanks Steve_ for that information.

I've been denied a visa because of 214(b) and then denied ESTA because of the denied visa. According to what you wrote, I'd be ineligible to visit Canada because of this, even though I've never been to Canada, or have any connections there. It doesn't seem fair, but I guess it could happen.

markwm

Don't worry; simply fly to Mexico and walk across the border like the other 15 million illegals who live here quite happily.

Of course I don't really advocate this but I'm mentioning it to highlight some of the plainly ridiculous rules and regulations that stop perfectly legitimate travelers from entering even when they have no intention of staying past their alloted time and whose only desire is to top up the economy by buying lots of goods and services.

Hopefully, these issues will be addressed by lawmakers at some point though, sadly, that doesn't help you right now.

crg

What do you think the impact will be of this new agreement? Also, how do you define a "flagpole" and how is it going away? I know of at least two ways people define a flagpole.

Steve_

It's not as easy to do it through Mexico because of their crazy airline system, check ticket prices.

Steve_

I didn't say it was going away, I said it would be a moot point, what I meant was you're going to be subject to the same degree of checking, so you won't just be able to show up at a POE with some BS story as to why you're coming into Canada and if you're not Canadian or American you'll also have to be pre-approved for entry. I.e. it won't be any easier.

CBP and CBSA do check with each other now, for example if you're denied entry then that is automatically reported back to the other side so they can deal with it if you're a fugitive or whatever.

In the future though the entry records will be available without request, so if you're spinning one story on one side and another on the other, they'll know you're trying to game it.

E.g. you tell one side you're just visiting, you tell the other side all the tools in your car are from your job that you were doing and so they're exempt from duty. So you show up again and say you're visiting - er... says here you were working, where's your work authorization?

The whole idea of the agreement is to have a common standard for border controls, so you can't be a terrorist and enter Canada and then try and get into the US at a land border. So the US becomes more trusting and places less restrictions on movement of goods and people because they're pre-checked. For example cargo won't have to be inspected twice.

However I personally think it will become a bit of a double-edged sword because the border people will have more information they can make peoples lives a misery with. I suspect I will be reading a lot more stories like this: http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/britis...erblocked.html

markwm

Seriously? If you're planning to come here and ghost across the border to start your life in the dark underbelly of society with all of the other 'undocumented aliens' are you really going to be that bothered about a one way ticket and crappy airlines?

On the other hand, sounds like you have direct experience of the process. Where is the number for the border patrol when you need it?