Crime Involving Moral Turpitude - foreign country
#1
Just Joined
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Joined: Nov 2017
Posts: 24
Crime Involving Moral Turpitude - foreign country
Ok, I think I may have a situation with applying for a greencard
14 years ago (I was over 18) I lived in a foreign country and unknowingly committed "fraud" (long story, dont ask). It was minor, all I had to do was pay a small fine in the station and give the money back. It was over so quickly, I honestly completely forget that it happened.
I have travelled to and from the states in the meantime, using the visa waiver and ESTA thing, I've never marked on there that I have been convicted of a crime (I'm honestly still not sure if it's recorded as a conviction of any kind).
I'm now applying for my spouse visa/green card and I'm worried about it beig an issue.
Fraud is technically a Crime Involving Moral Turpitude and I've applied to the country for a criminal record certificate to see if it comes up. I'm worried that it will show and then when I fill out my form, I will mention it and it becomes a problem. The problem is that if I mention it now, I've already technically said on my ESTAs that I've not been arrested, so I'm kinda stuck. My UK criminal record is clean and I have the certificate to show that
Am I in a catch 22 situation? I'm not even sure it will appear on the foreign record.
14 years ago (I was over 18) I lived in a foreign country and unknowingly committed "fraud" (long story, dont ask). It was minor, all I had to do was pay a small fine in the station and give the money back. It was over so quickly, I honestly completely forget that it happened.
I have travelled to and from the states in the meantime, using the visa waiver and ESTA thing, I've never marked on there that I have been convicted of a crime (I'm honestly still not sure if it's recorded as a conviction of any kind).
I'm now applying for my spouse visa/green card and I'm worried about it beig an issue.
Fraud is technically a Crime Involving Moral Turpitude and I've applied to the country for a criminal record certificate to see if it comes up. I'm worried that it will show and then when I fill out my form, I will mention it and it becomes a problem. The problem is that if I mention it now, I've already technically said on my ESTAs that I've not been arrested, so I'm kinda stuck. My UK criminal record is clean and I have the certificate to show that
Am I in a catch 22 situation? I'm not even sure it will appear on the foreign record.
#2
Lost in BE Cyberspace
Joined: Nov 2011
Location: Somewhere between Vancouver & St Johns
Posts: 19,840
Re: Crime Involving Moral Turpitude - foreign country
I would wait for the foreign police certificate to come back and see what it says.
So in your OP you state you committed fraud but unknowingly.
You had to pay a small fine and that was it.
Just based on that I would have several questions to ask. Your decision to answer them or not.
Q. What was the fraud? What happened?
Q. Did you voluntarily go to the station or were you taken there by the authorities?
Q. How much was the small fine?
Q. Are you sure it was a fine and not paying off a bribe to the authorities?
Q. Did you receive any paperwork regarding this?
Q. Which country was this?
So in your OP you state you committed fraud but unknowingly.
You had to pay a small fine and that was it.
Just based on that I would have several questions to ask. Your decision to answer them or not.
Q. What was the fraud? What happened?
Q. Did you voluntarily go to the station or were you taken there by the authorities?
Q. How much was the small fine?
Q. Are you sure it was a fine and not paying off a bribe to the authorities?
Q. Did you receive any paperwork regarding this?
Q. Which country was this?
#3
Just Joined
Thread Starter
Joined: Nov 2017
Posts: 24
Re: Crime Involving Moral Turpitude - foreign country
I would wait for the foreign police certificate to come back and see what it says.
So in your OP you state you committed fraud but unknowingly.
You had to pay a small fine and that was it.
Just based on that I would have several questions to ask. Your decision to answer them or not.
Q. What was the fraud? What happened?
Q. Did you voluntarily go to the station or were you taken there by the authorities?
Q. How much was the small fine?
Q. Are you sure it was a fine and not paying off a bribe to the authorities?
Q. Did you receive any paperwork regarding this?
Q. Which country was this?
So in your OP you state you committed fraud but unknowingly.
You had to pay a small fine and that was it.
Just based on that I would have several questions to ask. Your decision to answer them or not.
Q. What was the fraud? What happened?
Q. Did you voluntarily go to the station or were you taken there by the authorities?
Q. How much was the small fine?
Q. Are you sure it was a fine and not paying off a bribe to the authorities?
Q. Did you receive any paperwork regarding this?
Q. Which country was this?
2. taken there
3. about £50
4. It seemed to be a fine, it had paperwork for it
5. a sheet of paper, I don't have it any more
6. Sweden
#4
Lost in BE Cyberspace
Joined: Nov 2011
Location: Somewhere between Vancouver & St Johns
Posts: 19,840
Re: Crime Involving Moral Turpitude - foreign country
If you bought something on a credit card without sufficient funds then wouldn't the card have been declined therefore no transaction therefore no crime.
So are you suggesting the store completed the transaction?
How did the authorities know or get told of this?
Was it actually a card in your name used for the transaction?
Seems a bit strange to me how this unfolded.
So are you suggesting the store completed the transaction?
How did the authorities know or get told of this?
Was it actually a card in your name used for the transaction?
Seems a bit strange to me how this unfolded.
#5
Just Joined
Thread Starter
Joined: Nov 2017
Posts: 24
Re: Crime Involving Moral Turpitude - foreign country
If you bought something on a credit card without sufficient funds then wouldn't the card have been declined therefore no transaction therefore no crime.
So are you suggesting the store completed the transaction?
How did the authorities know or get told of this?
Was it actually a card in your name used for the transaction?
Seems a bit strange to me how this unfolded.
So are you suggesting the store completed the transaction?
How did the authorities know or get told of this?
Was it actually a card in your name used for the transaction?
Seems a bit strange to me how this unfolded.
#6
Lost in BE Cyberspace
Joined: Nov 2011
Location: Somewhere between Vancouver & St Johns
Posts: 19,840
Re: Crime Involving Moral Turpitude - foreign country
Be interesting to see if anything shows up on the Swedish Police Certificate.
My suggestion is wait until it arrives before submitting an application as I cant say how the US would look at this.
I know that if entering Canada and no actual conviction for this offence then you wouldn't be found inadmissible. You are dealing with the US though and not Canada.
My suggestion is wait until it arrives before submitting an application as I cant say how the US would look at this.
I know that if entering Canada and no actual conviction for this offence then you wouldn't be found inadmissible. You are dealing with the US though and not Canada.
#7
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Joined: Dec 2015
Location: TX
Posts: 346
Re: Crime Involving Moral Turpitude - foreign country
Sometimes if it is low enough on the scale (despite the scary word 'fraud') it isn't considered serious enough to make its way on to the bigger reporting systems so may not show up.