GarethThomason673

Yes I have a return ticket. I just thought that as it was my own fault for trying to enter, i'd have to stump up the cost of the next return flight. Would that mean I'd have to sit around in a cell until my return flight is due?!

I will indeed take your advices and attempt to get over this. Like everyone has said I have not commited a CIMT, so why would or should I feel guilty about using the VWP?

Thanks for your time guys.

paulpur

forget about the arrest or whether it was CIMT or not(as is the case here) , you have a valid approved ESTA , KLM aint gonna care about anything else as long as you have that and your ticket, you dont even need to tell them anything about the arrest years ago, besides, they wont even ask
the CBP probably wont ask either, they will probably just give you the usual speil ,e.g
what is the purpose of your trip, how long are you staying etc etc
so as many others have said, relax, forget about it and enjoy your holiday hehe

scrubbedexpat099

You might want to make sure your flight gives enough time for there to be flights out.

From posters who have mentioned their stay in a holding cell overnight, does not sound very nice.

GarethThomason673

My return flight is 6 days later...

Sorry to come across as dumb, but the question regarding arrests on the ESTA form asks:

Have you ever been arrested or convicted for a offence or crime involving moral turpitude...

Is that question not asking:

- Have you ever been arrested or convicted for ANY offence? (note the any!)
- Have you ever been arrested or convicted for a CIMT?

Is it not two seperate questions thrown in there?

materialcontroller

The original phrase doesn't mention the word "any" at all. You have put that in yourself.

The only person creating confusion and doubt is you.

GarethThomason673

I know. I was just wondering if you think if the word any should be there, or is it 100% just about moral turpitude?

materialcontroller

As you seem to be worried so much about this, why didn't you just apply for a visa instead? That way you could have spoken to a real person at the embassy and had all your questions answered first-hand.

S Folinsky

The word "exactly" has almost no place in a discussion of moral turpitude. In 1991, the Board of Immigration Appeals issued a case, Matter of Goldeshtein regarding structuring currency transactions. In 1993, the 9th Circuit Court of Appeals disagreed -- Goldeshtein v. INS.

The discussions therein are interesting.

BTW, in a related area, the Supremes issued a case last month which was, shall we say, somewhat critical of the thought process of the Board of Immigration Appeals: see Judulang v. Holder. Many in the immigration bar actually consider Judulang to be a fun read.

ian-mstm

No, it isn't. How do I know? Because all immigration forms are written very simply. The questions are to be taken at face value... and you should never read into them something that isn't there.

Quite simply, there is no comma (,) after the word "convicted". That makes the entire statement a main (ordinate) clause, and not a subordinate clause.

Damn... I'm done with this thread. Your question has been answered a dozen times over.

If you're unsure what to do... apply for a visa... or just stay home.

Ian

GarethThomason673

I am worried yes, but I am attempting to reassure myself that my crimes are not moral turpitude and I should not feel guilty about ticking no. My minor incident is recorded on the police national computer, it would only show up on an enhanced criminal record check, it would apparently not be visible on a standard CRB check as it is not a recordable criminal record. I'm not worried about the border agent having access to our criminal records, as I would not be found on this (so my fine stated and the issuing officer), however, I am worried that when my fingerprints are scanned the border agent has access to the police national computer in which my fingerprints are stored for intelligence purposes (if I ever commit a serious crime, it's another fingerprinted person they can find) and my arrest information appears. Is this what the fingerprints are scanned for, to check for criminal records?

Unfortunately as I leave in 10 days I doubt I'd get a visa in time!

GarethThomason673

Ian,

I'm really sorry. This trip is likely to be my last to the US, which is why I'm so worried. I've been to the US for 24 years on the run before this arrest and as I'm moving home and hopefully starting a family this year, I doubt I would afford it again.

materialcontroller

If you really wanted to be fully and officially reassured about doing the right thing you should have applied for the visa.

S Folinsky

In one of the offices I consult with, there is a posting regarding the famous line:

Woman without her man is nothing

It is followed by alternative punctuations.

paulpur

Gareth, the fingerprints are taken for the cbp's own files, these have nothing to do with the UK or anything here in the slightest, at the POE they do not routinely have access to any files from the UK, so forget this whole thing and enjoy your holiday

GarethThomason673

Thanks Paul, pretty re-assuring. Don't want a petty little arrest years ago for being drunk flagging up and causing problems!