DavidLemon

Trouble is people usually seek advice after the fact, so it could be here in HUGE BOLD RED letters but it will make no odds as they will never see it until it is too late.

Should have paid attention, this has all ready been said several times.

Michael

I just sent the following email to my senator and we will see if it does any good.

On a web site that I frequently visit, there seems to be a serious problem for people from countries in the visa waiver program (mostly European). Many want to visit the US and apply for a B2 visa either because they don't realize that they are eligible for the visa waiver program, want to visit the US for more than 90 days, or have been told by the POE officer after frequent visits to apply for a B2 visa. When they apply for a B2 visa, the vast majority of time the visa is denied. Typically the reason given is the applicant did not show strong ties to his/her country of residence even if he/she demonstrates that they own property, have a lease on a home or apartment, have a job to return to, show documentation indicating that they are enrolled in a university, or just about anything else that would indicate strong ties.

That person then uses the ESTA web site to try to get approval for the visa waiver program and indicates that they had a visa denial and then are denied by ESTA. Then they wait about 6 to 12 months and try the ESTA web site again and are approved.

Some have pre-booked non refundable flights and are out thousands of dollars. They also paid fees for the B2 visa application as well as the ESTA denial and many have to travel great distances to get to the embassy at a significant expense and time.

I'm not sure what the issue is but it seems that our embassies in visa waiver program countries are wasting a large amount of manpower processing requests that will most likely be denied. Why doesn't the staff at our embassies notify the person making an appointment for a B2 visa that he/she will likely be denied a B2 visa (unless they are elderly snowbirds) since he/she is eligible for the visa waiver program and therefore not waste everybody's time and money?

I suspect the problem may be that the embassies and ESTA are using different databases and until the ESTA database is updated with information from the embassies, ESTA will be denied since the person was truthful indicating that they had a visa denial but the ESTA database can't find any information about the visa or denial. Once the ESTA database is updated after several months, the B2 visa denial is found and since it does not indicate that the denial was due to criminal activity or any undesirable reason, it approves the request.

A temporary quick solution would be to change the ESTA web site so that when it asks if the person had a visa denial, it should indicate "not B2 visa denials that were denied for lack of strong ties". This would allow people that have already scheduled trips to the US to make those trips.

A more permanent solution would be to train embassy personal that are scheduling appointments for B2 visas to inform people that a B2 visa would likely be denied.

Finally the databases should be in sync so that people should have to wait months to get ESTA approval.

As a natural born American, it is embarrassing that we have such a poorly designed system. Besides that, why are we turning away possibly tens of thousands of visitors annually that are willing to spend their money in the US for no apparent valid reason?

Noorah101

.... should *not* have to wait months...

Rene

Jerseygirl

Now you've gone and done it Michael...you've may have extended the delay.

Michael

Like most web sites, she has a small message box to send an email. If that is the only mistake I made, someone must be watching over me.

jeffreyhy

Not enough. Being asked by your empployer to travel to Spain to work for a few months has no relevance to whether or not you'll leave the USA once you gain entry. Are you and this US Congressman personally acquainted? Even if you are, the Congressman does not have the ability to detain you and put you on a plane out of the USA when it's time for you to leave. His recommendation is worthless.

Regards, JEff

crg

You forget about all of the people who seek B2 visas because they want to game the system. I'm sure the consular officers hear the "I want to tour in a big RV and see the whole US!" and then once they issue it, the person starts their shady E or L business or plays house with their new LPR spouse until their priority date is current.

"A temporary quick solution would be to change the ESTA web site so that when it asks if the person had a visa denial, it should indicate "not B2 visa denials that were denied for lack of strong ties". This would allow people that have already scheduled trips to the US to make those trips."

The consular officers review the applicant, make a decision and take notes. It is my understanding that those notes are available to the people who handle ESTA.

Michael

They could do the same thing on the visa waiver program except they would be overstaying the 90 days allowed instead of the 6 months allowed.

ESTA may possibly get that information but if they did get that information quickly and the application is denied, what changed in 6 months when the same person enters the same information? What is the logic behind that?

Therefore something is not working the way it should.

lifehouse51

I do agree with Michael that it should be more clear to those who are about to apply for B-2 visa that their chances won't be high if they're otherwise eligible for VWP, and that a B-2 denial will affect their subsequent chances of ESTA approval. Such warning can be posted on the part of U.S. consulate website that everyone applying for visa will have to reach before continuing. If people chose not to read the warning or ignore, that'll be their own problem.

Michael

I'll also bet that if the London Embassy were not processing all those B2 visas that would likely be denied, many other visa processing times would likely be significantly reduced.

crg

VWP people cannot extend or change status within the US and file appeal after appeal to stay. B2 people can. That's the difference and why they don't want to give out as many B2 visas to VWP travelers.

Some get an approval after 6 months. Some do not. That means they evaluate each application when someone indicates a prior visa denial.

The consulate is absolutely not allowed to discourage people from applying, or reapplying for a visa.

As a side note, I'm skeptical of the OP's claim they didn't know they could use the VWP.

Michael

People from VWP countries have a low probability of over staying and that is one of the main reasons those countries obtain VWP status but people from those countries have a very difficult time getting a B2 visa. People visiting the US from countries not on the VWP list generally have a higher probability of over staying and therefore must apply for B2 visas but seem to have a higher percentage approved for B2 visas than people from VWP countries. In fact nearly 50% of the illegal immigrants currently in the US entered the country legally and I doubt that more than a few percent are from VWP countries.

To me, that logic doesn't make much sense.

In fact it makes about as much sense as republicans passing laws requiring voter ID's to try to stop less than 0.0001% of population from voting illegally but won't pass laws to try to reduce gun violence.
I've seen very few on BE that didn't eventually get ESTA approval. Some may take a month, some 6 months, and some even a year but we don't know how often the ETSA database is updated. The few that I have seen that had problems were generally from third world countries that had a B2 visa denial and then eventually became a citizen of a VWP country.
I'm not saying that they should discourage them but they should inform them.

crg

You don't seem to be aware of how many people violate their status. 90 days is more than enough time for 99% of legitimate visitors. Once someone decides they need more than 90 days, you get a spike in intended behavior that is contrary to the immigration laws. So if someone wants more than 90 days, they better be able to prove they will comply with the laws. The burden of proof is on them.

It's a misnomer that the ~12 million undocumented people in the US all jumped the fence. There is a significant percentage that entered VWP, or with a visa and overstayed and another significant percentage of people who work illegally, yet come and go every 89 days or 179 days.

As for VWP people being low risk, the VWP country must have a low visa denial rate and not a low overstay rate. Furthermore, just because someone is UK today doesn't mean they didn't just become a UKC after claiming asylum or refugee status. They upgraded their surroundings once, they may do it again.

The visa issuance process and immigration policy has always been a balancing act between enforcement and facilitating legitimate trade and travel.

scrubbedexpat099

At least the voting law is the more effective.

Duncan Roberts

You see the post titled "Read Me: REALLY, READ ME: Want to Live & Work in the US?"

That's been posted for years and almost every day people are posting about wanting to live in the US but don't know where to start or asking if they can get a visa for themselves because they are a skilled bricklayer, their hairdresser wife and their three kids because they went to Disney Land and now want to move to Florida.