I

In




alt.computer.consultants,misc.immigration.usa,sci. research.careers,talk.politics.mis-
c,
Tim Keating wrote in message
...
    >On Fri, 18 Oct 2002 21:12:28 -0500, "John Jacobson"
    >posing with a fake ID of "Thus Spake Zarathustra"
    >wrote:
    >>"Tim Keating" wrote in message
    >>news711rucf3vivfj7qj55bng-
    >>[email protected]    ...
    >>> On Fri, 18 Oct 2002 17:49:00 -0400, alexy
    >>> wrote:
    >>> >Tim Keating wrote:
    >>> >
    >>> >
    >>> >>However.. Somewhere between 600,000 to 750,000 of H1-B's have recently
    >>> >>come from a country which around 7 million computers.
    >>> >>
    >>> >> So were did they get the flood of so-called experts??
    >>> >> Answer... They didn't, They're not experts.
    >>> >> Most of them can't even be classified as novices.
    >>> >>
    >>> >>
    >>> >>http://www.socio.dem-
    >>> >>on.co.uk/magazine/7/venky.html
    >>> >> (1.1 computers per 1000.. ~1.3 million computers, ~Jul 99).
    >>> >>
    >>> >>http://www.learnon.org/papers/I-
    >>> >>ndia.pdf
    >>> >>(3 million computers for a billion+ people, 2000.)
    >>> >>
    >>> >>ht-
    >>> >>tp://www.time.com/time/asia/digital/magazine/0,9754,107313,00.html
    >>> >>(less than 5 million computers for a billion+ people. apr30, 2001.
    >>> >That argument goes nowhere, IMHO, and just feeds the anti-imigrant
    >>> >image of the anti-H-1B forces.
    >By Apr 30, 2001.. approx 2/3 to 5/8's of all H1-B's already imported.
    >>> It demonstrates the wholesale fraud of the H1-B program!!.
    >>> They have provided more so-called experts, than computers.
    >> No Tim. 600,000-750,000 is LESS than five million, not more. Basic
    >> arithmetic, what a concept.
    >Looks like JJ, thinks less than a years of experience/work with a
    >computer makes them an EXPERT. Alex.. has also fallen for the same
    >dumb concept. Instant EXPERTS... .. NOT... !!!!

No Tim, it looks like you think the number of H-1B's or "experts" is
750,000 and the number of computers in India is 5 million, BUT that "They
have provided more so-called experts, than computers", thus implying that
750,000 > 5,000,000.

    > Also don't forget a very small fraction of computers is used for
    > development.. One of the computers primary functions is to be a
    > labor saving tool for some end user application (its final mission).
    > Thus one should expect less than 1 in 10, maybe 1 in 30 computers
    > would be used for in a development role. All of sudden 1 million
    > becomes 100,000.. or 3 million.. 300,000.. or less.. way less...
    > So much for JJ's 7 years of training in statistical analysis..
    > As the bear trap snaps shut.. JJ never saw it coming..

Most people don't see your hallucinations Tim.



--
***Posted by Jake's Custom Newsgroup Reader***

Thus Spake Zarathustra

"Tim Keating" wrote in message
news:vph1ruo9ud7ot270ifdoc5ro-
[email protected]...
    > On Fri, 18 Oct 2002 21:12:28 -0500, "John Jacobson"
    > posing with a fake ID of "Thus Spake Zarathustra"
    > wrote:
    > >"Tim Keating" wrote in message
    > >news711rucf3vivfj7qj55bn-
    > >[email protected]    ...
    > >> On Fri, 18 Oct 2002 17:49:00 -0400, alexy
    > >> wrote:
    > >>
    > >> >Tim Keating wrote:
    > >> >
    > >> >
    > >> >>However.. Somewhere between 600,000 to 750,000 of H1-B's have recently
    > >> >>come from a country which around 7 million computers.
    > >> >>
    > >> >> So were did they get the flood of so-called experts??
    > >> >> Answer... They didn't, They're not experts.
    > >> >> Most of them can't even be classified as novices.
    > >> >>
    > >> >>
    > >> >>http://www.socio.de-
    > >> >>mon.co.uk/magazine/7/venky.html
    > >> >> (1.1 computers per 1000.. ~1.3 million computers, ~Jul 99).
    > >> >>
    > >> >>http://www.learnon.org/papers/-
    > >> >>India.pdf
    > >> >>(3 million computers for a billion+ people, 2000.)
    > >> >>
    > >> >>h-
    > >> >>ttp://www.time.com/time/asia/digital/magazine/0,9754,107313,00.html
    > >> >>(less than 5 million computers for a billion+ people. apr30, 2001.
    > >> >That argument goes nowhere, IMHO, and just feeds the anti-imigrant
    > >> >image of the anti-H-1B forces.
    > By Apr 30, 2001.. approx 2/3 to 5/8's of all H1-B's already imported.
    > >>
    > >> It demonstrates the wholesale fraud of the H1-B program!!.
    > >>
    > >> They have provided more so-called experts, than computers.
    > >
    > > No Tim. 600,000-750,000 is LESS than five million, not more. Basic
    > > arithmetic, what a concept.
    > Looks like JJ, thinks less than a years of experience/work with a
    > computer makes them an EXPERT. Alex.. has also fallen for the same
    > dumb concept. Instant EXPERTS... .. NOT... !!!!

Tim, you said that India has provided more experts than they have
computers. They have five million computers, but according to you they
supplied 750,000 H-1B's. 750,000 is LESS than 5,000.000. Thus you were wrong.
Any second grader can see that. It is not a dumb concept, it is called
arithmetic.

    > Also don't forget a very small fraction of computers is used for
    > development.. One of the computers primary functions is to be a
    > labor saving tool for some end user application (its final mission).
    > Thus one should expect less than 1 in 10, maybe 1 in 30 computers
    > would be used for in a development role. All of sudden 1 million
    > becomes 100,000.. or 3 million.. 300,000.. or less.. way less...

Most computer science programs in the United States have far fewer
computers than students. By your "logic" ( to use a word loosely) they are
obviously churning out fake "experts".

What a genius. Please don't let anyone know you are an American. You are
embarrassing for us all.

    > So much for JJ's 7 years of training in statistical analysis..
    > As the bear trap snaps shut.. JJ never saw it coming..

I never see any of your hallucinations.

Alexy

Tim Keating wrote:

    >On Fri, 18 Oct 2002 21:12:28 -0500, "John Jacobson"
    >posing with a fake ID of "Thus Spake Zarathustra"
    >wrote:
    >>"Tim Keating" wrote in message
    >>news711rucf3vivfj7qj55bng-
    >>[email protected]    ...
    >>> On Fri, 18 Oct 2002 17:49:00 -0400, alexy
    >>> wrote:
    >>> >Tim Keating wrote:
    >>> >
    >>> >
    >>> >>However.. Somewhere between 600,000 to 750,000 of H1-B's have recently
    >>> >>come from a country which around 7 million computers.
    >>> >>
    >>> >> So were did they get the flood of so-called experts??
    >>> >> Answer... They didn't, They're not experts.
    >>> >> Most of them can't even be classified as novices.
    >>> >>
    >>> >>
    >>> >>http://www.socio.dem-
    >>> >>on.co.uk/magazine/7/venky.html
    >>> >> (1.1 computers per 1000.. ~1.3 million computers, ~Jul 99).
    >>> >>
    >>> >>http://www.learnon.org/papers/I-
    >>> >>ndia.pdf
    >>> >>(3 million computers for a billion+ people, 2000.)
    >>> >>
    >>> >>ht-
    >>> >>tp://www.time.com/time/asia/digital/magazine/0,9754,107313,00.html
    >>> >>(less than 5 million computers for a billion+ people. apr30, 2001.
    >>> >That argument goes nowhere, IMHO, and just feeds the anti-imigrant
    >>> >image of the anti-H-1B forces.
    >By Apr 30, 2001.. approx 2/3 to 5/8's of all H1-B's already imported.
Relevance?
    >>> It demonstrates the wholesale fraud of the H1-B program!!.
    >>> They have provided more so-called experts, than computers.
    >> No Tim. 600,000-750,000 is LESS than five million, not more. Basic
    >> arithmetic, what a concept.
    >Looks like JJ, thinks less than a years of experience/work with a
    >computer makes them an EXPERT.

Huh? Where did he ever say that? YOU said that they had produced more
so-called experts than computers. YOU said that they had 5 million
computers. The question is: where are all the so-called experts (more
than 5 million, according to your numbers) you claim they had.

    > Alex.. has also fallen for the same dumb concept. Instant EXPERTS... ..
    > NOT... !!!!

What concept is that? I never said anything about instant experts. My
only question is since you have said that they have 5 million
computers and you have said that they have produced more so-called
experts than computers, where are all of those so-called experts? Even
if all H-1Bs were experts, that would still be far less than the
number of computers.

    > Also don't forget a very small fraction of computers is used for
    > development.. One of the computers primary functions is to be a
    > labor saving tool for some end user application (its final mission).
    > Thus one should expect less than 1 in 10, maybe 1 in 30 computers
    > would be used for in a development role. All of sudden 1 million
    > becomes 100,000.. or 3 million.. 300,000.. or less.. way less...
Valid point. What does that have to do with your comparison between
the number of computers and the number of so-called experts?

    > So much for JJ's 7 years of training in statistical analysis..
    > As the bear trap snaps shut.. JJ never saw it coming..
Probably because he was nowhere near it. I think you will find the
trap empty!

--
Alex
Make the obvious change in the return address to reply by email.

Tim Keating

On Fri, 18 Oct 2002 22:31:45 -0500, "John Jacobson"
posing with a fake ID of "Thus Spake Zarathustra"
wrote:

    >"Tim Keating" wrote in message
    >news:vph1ruo9ud7ot270ifdoc5r-
    >[email protected]    ...
    >> On Fri, 18 Oct 2002 21:12:28 -0500, "John Jacobson"
    >> posing with a fake ID of "Thus Spake Zarathustra"
    >> wrote:
    >> >"Tim Keating" wrote in message
    >> >news711rucf3vivfj7qj55b-
    >> >[email protected]    ...
    >> >> On Fri, 18 Oct 2002 17:49:00 -0400, alexy
    >> >> wrote:
    >> >>
    >> >> >Tim Keating wrote:
    >> >> >
    >> >> >
    >> >> >>However.. Somewhere between 600,000 to 750,000 of H1-B's have recently
    >> >> >>come from a country which around 7 million computers.
    >> >> >>
    >> >> >> So were did they get the flood of so-called experts??
    >> >> >> Answer... They didn't, They're not experts.
    >> >> >> Most of them can't even be classified as novices.
    >> >> >>
    >> >> >>
    >> >> >>http://www.socio.d-
    >> >> >>emon.co.uk/magazine/7/venky.html
    >> >> >> (1.1 computers per 1000.. ~1.3 million computers, ~Jul 99).
    >> >> >>
    >> >> >>http://www.learnon.org/papers-
    >> >> >>/India.pdf
    >> >> >>(3 million computers for a billion+ people, 2000.)
    >> >> >>
    >> >> >>-
    >> >> >>http://www.time.com/time/asia/digital/magazine/0,9754,107313,00.html
    >> >> >>(less than 5 million computers for a billion+ people. apr30, 2001.
    >> >> >That argument goes nowhere, IMHO, and just feeds the anti-imigrant
    >> >> >image of the anti-H-1B forces.
    >> By Apr 30, 2001.. approx 2/3 to 5/8's of all H1-B's already imported.
    >> >>
    >> >> It demonstrates the wholesale fraud of the H1-B program!!.
    >> >>
    >> >> They have provided more so-called experts, than computers.
    >> >
    >> > No Tim. 600,000-750,000 is LESS than five million, not more. Basic
    >> > arithmetic, what a concept.
    >> Looks like JJ, thinks less than a years of experience/work with a
    >> computer makes them an EXPERT. Alex.. has also fallen for the same
    >> dumb concept. Instant EXPERTS... .. NOT... !!!!
    > Tim, you said that India has provided more experts than they have
    > computers. They have five million computers, but according to you they
    > supplied 750,000 H-1B's. 750,000 is LESS than 5,000.000. Thus you were wrong.
    > Any second grader can see that. It is not a dumb concept, it is called
    > arithmetic.

JJ.. How long have they had those computers?

For Six months? One year?. two years? Three years?
Maybe 10 million computer/years?
Divide out by user to developer ratio? 10 to 1.. 30 to 1..

How about a similar number for the US.
Several billion computer/years?

So much for JJ's statistical abilities.. Alex in the same boat..

Thus Spake Zarathustra

"alexy" wrote in message
news:88k1rucfsa0771ivb1ggh2hg-
[email protected]...
    > > As the bear trap snaps shut.. JJ never saw it coming..
    > Probably because he was nowhere near it. I think you will find the
    > trap empty!

Obviously, since it is in his cranium.

Thus Spake Zarathustra

"Tim Keating" wrote in message
news:q3l1ruorkasifeopuvkg9gug-
[email protected]...
    > On Fri, 18 Oct 2002 22:31:45 -0500, "John Jacobson"
    > posing with a fake ID of "Thus Spake Zarathustra"
    > wrote:
    > >"Tim Keating" wrote in message
    > >news:vph1ruo9ud7ot270ifdoc-
    > >[email protected]    ...
    > >> On Fri, 18 Oct 2002 21:12:28 -0500, "John Jacobson"
    > >> posing with a fake ID of "Thus Spake Zarathustra"
    > >> wrote:
    > >>
    > >> >"Tim Keating" wrote in message
    > >> >news711rucf3vivfj7qj5-
    > >> >[email protected]    ...
    > >> >> On Fri, 18 Oct 2002 17:49:00 -0400, alexy
    > >> >> wrote:
    > >> >>
    > >> >> >Tim Keating wrote:
    > >> >> >
    > >> >> >
    > >> >> >>However.. Somewhere between 600,000 to 750,000 of H1-B's have
recently
    > >> >> >>come from a country which around 7 million computers.
    > >> >> >>
    > >> >> >> So were did they get the flood of so-called experts??
    > >> >> >> Answer... They didn't, They're not experts.
    > >> >> >> Most of them can't even be classified as novices.
    > >> >> >>
    > >> >> >>
    > >> >> >>http://www.socio-
    > >> >> >>.demon.co.uk/magazine/7/venky.html
    > >> >> >> (1.1 computers per 1000.. ~1.3 million computers, ~Jul 99).
    > >> >> >>
    > >> >> >>http://www.learnon.org/pape-
    > >> >> >>rs/India.pdf
    > >> >> >>(3 million computers for a billion+ people, 2000.)
    > >> >> >>
    > >> >> >>[url="http://www.time.com/time/asia/digital/magazine/0,9754,107313,00.html-[/q2]
[q2]> >> >> >>"]http://www.time.com/time/asia/digital/magazine/0,9754,107313,00.html[/ur-
    > >> >> >>l]
    > >> >> >>(less than 5 million computers for a billion+ people. apr30,
2001.
    > >> >> >That argument goes nowhere, IMHO, and just feeds the anti-imigrant
    > >> >> >image of the anti-H-1B forces.
    > >>
    > >> By Apr 30, 2001.. approx 2/3 to 5/8's of all H1-B's already imported.
    > >>
    > >> >>
    > >> >> It demonstrates the wholesale fraud of the H1-B program!!.
    > >> >>
    > >> >> They have provided more so-called experts, than computers.
    > >> >
    > >> > No Tim. 600,000-750,000 is LESS than five million, not more. Basic
    > >> > arithmetic, what a concept.
    > >>
    > >> Looks like JJ, thinks less than a years of experience/work with a
    > >> computer makes them an EXPERT. Alex.. has also fallen for the same
    > >> dumb concept. Instant EXPERTS... .. NOT... !!!!
    > >
    > > Tim, you said that India has provided more experts than they have
    > > computers. They have five million computers, but according to you they
    > > supplied 750,000 H-1B's. 750,000 is LESS than 5,000.000. Thus you were
wrong.
    > >Any second grader can see that. It is not a dumb concept, it is called
    > >arithmetic.
    > JJ.. How long have they had those computers?

LOL. You sure are desperate now. It doesn't matter how long they had those
computers, 5 million is still greater than 750,000. You said, quite simply and
plainly, that they had more experts than computers. Period.

I can see why you would want to backpedal from such a stupid statement.
However, instead you are digging yourself in even deeper.

    > For Six months? One year?. two years? Three years?
    > Maybe 10 million computer/years?
    > Divide out by user to developer ratio? 10 to 1.. 30 to 1..

Actually, since you have no idea what the user to developer ratio is and
are just pulling numbers out of your ass, that argument goes nowhere.

And if you actually knew anything about third-world countries you would
know that the PC to developer ratio actually is usually not too far from 1 to
1. Businesses in third world countries tend not to use PCs at all.

    > How about a similar number for the US.
    > Several billion computer/years?

You weren't talking about the United States. You were saying that INDIA had
more "experts" than PC's. That claim can never be proven or disproven by U.S.
stats. You see, Tim, the way a logical argument works is that you produce
evidence that relates directly to the objects of your statements, not just
random alternatives you think might distract people from your claim.

    > So much for JJ's statistical abilities.. Alex in the same boat..

A boat that has run over you several times now.

Tim Keating

On Fri, 18 Oct 2002 23:13:10 -0500, "John Jacobson"
posing with a fake ID of "Thus Spake Zarathustra"
wrote:

    >"Tim Keating" wrote in message
    >news:q3l1ruorkasifeopuvkg9gu-
    >[email protected]    ...
    >> On Fri, 18 Oct 2002 22:31:45 -0500, "John Jacobson"
    >> posing with a fake ID of "Thus Spake Zarathustra"
    >> wrote:
    >> >"Tim Keating" wrote in message
    >> >news:vph1ruo9ud7ot270ifdo-
    >> >[email protected]    ...
    >> >> On Fri, 18 Oct 2002 21:12:28 -0500, "John Jacobson"
    >> >> posing with a fake ID of "Thus Spake Zarathustra"
    >> >> wrote:
    >> >>
    >> >> >"Tim Keating" wrote in message
    >> >> >news711rucf3vivfj7qj-
    >> >> >[email protected]    ...
    >> >> >> On Fri, 18 Oct 2002 17:49:00 -0400, alexy
    >> >> >> wrote:
    >> >> >>
    >> >> >> >Tim Keating wrote:
    >> >> >> >
    >> >> >> >
    >> >> >> >>However.. Somewhere between 600,000 to 750,000 of H1-B's have
    >recently
    >> >> >> >>come from a country which around 7 million computers.
    >> >> >> >>
    >> >> >> >> So were did they get the flood of so-called experts??
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
    >> >> >> >> Answer... They didn't, They're not experts.
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
    >> >> >> >> Most of them can't even be classified as novices.
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

JJ.. remember these words.. Look below..

    >> >> >> >>
    >> >> >> >>
    >> >> >> >>http://www.soci-
    >> >> >> >>o.demon.co.uk/magazine/7/venky.html
    >> >> >> >> (1.1 computers per 1000.. ~1.3 million computers, ~Jul 99).
    >> >> >> >>
    >> >> >> >>http://www.learnon.org/pap-
    >> >> >> >>ers/India.pdf
    >> >> >> >>(3 million computers for a billion+ people, 2000.)
    >> >> >> >>
    >> >> >> >>[url="http://www.time.com/time/asia/digital/magazine/0,9754,107313,00.htm-[/q2]
[q2]>> >> >> >>l"]http://www.time.com/time/asia/digital/magazine/0,9754,107313,00.html[/-
    >> >> >> >>url]
    >> >> >> >>(less than 5 million computers for a billion+ people. apr30,
    >2001.
    >> >> >> >That argument goes nowhere, IMHO, and just feeds the anti-imigrant
    >> >> >> >image of the anti-H-1B forces.
    >> >>
    >> >> By Apr 30, 2001.. approx 2/3 to 5/8's of all H1-B's already imported.
    >> >>
    >> >> >>
    >> >> >> It demonstrates the wholesale fraud of the H1-B program!!.
    >> >> >>
    >> >> >> They have provided more so-called experts, than computers.
    >> >> >
    >> >> > No Tim. 600,000-750,000 is LESS than five million, not more. Basic
    >> >> > arithmetic, what a concept.
    >> >>
    >> >> Looks like JJ, thinks less than a years of experience/work with a
    >> >> computer makes them an EXPERT. Alex.. has also fallen for the same
    >> >> dumb concept. Instant EXPERTS... .. NOT... !!!!
    >> >
    >> > Tim, you said that India has provided more experts than they have
    >> > computers. They have five million computers, but according to you they
    >> > supplied 750,000 H-1B's. 750,000 is LESS than 5,000.000. Thus you were
    >wrong.
    >> >Any second grader can see that. It is not a dumb concept, it is called
    >> >arithmetic.
    >> JJ.. How long have they had those computers?
    > LOL. You sure are desperate now. It doesn't matter how long they had those
    > computers, 5 million is still greater than 750,000. You said, quite simply and
    > plainly, that they had more experts than computers. Period.

JJ what is an expert?? By the way..
Exactly, where did I say "more experts than computers. Period"??????

Answer: I didn't, JJ your smoking something again!!

    > I can see why you would want to backpedal from such a stupid statement.
    > However, instead you are digging yourself in even deeper.
    >> For Six months? One year?. two years? Three years?
    >> Maybe 10 million computer/years?
    >> Divide out by user to developer ratio? 10 to 1.. 30 to 1..
    > Actually, since you have no idea what the user to developer ratio is and
    > are just pulling numbers out of your ass, that argument goes nowhere.

Actually. There are some good fundamentals for those numbers.

What is the fiscal break even ratio between users and developers?

Answer: Where the end user productivity savings, pay for both
equipment and salary of developer/support.

In the US.. a good guess would be 80 to 1 range for support, a much
higher ratio for developers.

    > And if you actually knew anything about third-world countries you would
    > know that the PC to developer ratio actually is usually not too far from 1 to
    >1. Businesses in third world countries tend not to use PCs at all.
    >> How about a similar number for the US.
    >> Several billion computer/years?
    > You weren't talking about the United States. You were saying that INDIA had
    > more "experts" than PC's. That claim can never be proven or disproven by U.S.
    > stats. You see, Tim, the way a logical argument works is that you produce
    > evidence that relates directly to the objects of your statements, not just
    > random alternatives you think might distract people from your claim.

Given that their are probably less than 330,000(*) Indian developer
computers/years to divided by the 3 year relevant work experience
requirement.

Yields less than 110,000 H1-B's meeting the min work requirements..
out of ~ 500,000 H1-B's for the time period specified..

Tack in the inflated experience requirements we've been seeing in
job adverts.. All would indicate work experience requirement well
in-excess of the 3 year minimum requirements.

Care to guess, how many Indian 1-B's are coming to the states
presenting false resumes? My guess at least 90 to 95%.

*Note: I didn't even bother to subtract out the numbers for
educational and/or recreational use.

    >> So much for JJ's statistical abilities.. Alex in the same boat..

Tack onto that list, JJ's lack of consulting abilities.

Alexy

Tim Keating wrote:

    >On Fri, 18 Oct 2002 23:13:10 -0500, "John Jacobson"
    >posing with a fake ID of "Thus Spake Zarathustra"
    >wrote:
    >>"Tim Keating" wrote in message
    >>news:q3l1ruorkasifeopuvkg9g-
    >>[email protected]    ...
    >>> On Fri, 18 Oct 2002 22:31:45 -0500, "John Jacobson"
    >>> posing with a fake ID of "Thus Spake Zarathustra"
    >>> wrote:
    >>> >"Tim Keating" wrote in message
    >>> >news:vph1ruo9ud7ot270ifd-
    >>> >[email protected]    ...
    >>> >> On Fri, 18 Oct 2002 21:12:28 -0500, "John Jacobson"
    >>> >> posing with a fake ID of "Thus Spake Zarathustra"
    >>> >> wrote:
    >>> >>
    >>> >> >"Tim Keating" wrote in message
    >>> >> >news711rucf3vivfj7q-
    >>> >> >[email protected]    ...
    >>> >> >> On Fri, 18 Oct 2002 17:49:00 -0400, alexy
    >>> >> >> wrote:
    >>> >> >>
    >>> >> >> >Tim Keating wrote:
    >>> >> >> >
    >>> >> >> >
    >>> >> >> >>However.. Somewhere between 600,000 to 750,000 of H1-B's have
    >>recently
    >>> >> >> >>come from a country which around 7 million computers.
    >>> >> >> >>
    >>> >> >> >> So were did they get the flood of so-called experts??
    > ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
    >>> >> >> >> Answer... They didn't, They're not experts.
    > ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
    >>> >> >> >> Most of them can't even be classified as novices.
    > ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
    >JJ.. remember these words.. Look below..
    >>> >> >> >>
    >>> >> >> >>
    >>> >> >> >>http://www.soc-
    >>> >> >> >>io.demon.co.uk/magazine/7/venky.html
    >>> >> >> >> (1.1 computers per 1000.. ~1.3 million computers, ~Jul 99).
    >>> >> >> >>
    >>> >> >> >>http://www.learnon.org/pa-
    >>> >> >> >>pers/India.pdf
    >>> >> >> >>(3 million computers for a billion+ people, 2000.)
    >>> >> >> >>
    >>> >> >> >>http://www.time.com/time/asia/digital/magazine/0,9754,107313,00.html-
    >>> >> >> >>
    >>> >> >> >>(less than 5 million computers for a billion+ people. apr30,
    >>2001.
    >>> >> >> >That argument goes nowhere, IMHO, and just feeds the anti-imigrant
    >>> >> >> >image of the anti-H-1B forces.
    >>> >>
    >>> >> By Apr 30, 2001.. approx 2/3 to 5/8's of all H1-B's already imported.
    >>> >>
    >>> >> >>
    >>> >> >> It demonstrates the wholesale fraud of the H1-B program!!.
    >>> >> >>
    >>> >> >> They have provided more so-called experts, than computers.
    >>> >> >
    >>> >> > No Tim. 600,000-750,000 is LESS than five million, not more. Basic
    >>> >> > arithmetic, what a concept.
    >>> >>
    >>> >> Looks like JJ, thinks less than a years of experience/work with a
    >>> >> computer makes them an EXPERT. Alex.. has also fallen for the same
    >>> >> dumb concept. Instant EXPERTS... .. NOT... !!!!
    >>> >
    >>> > Tim, you said that India has provided more experts than they have
    >>> > computers. They have five million computers, but according to you they
    >>> > supplied 750,000 H-1B's. 750,000 is LESS than 5,000.000. Thus you were
    >>wrong.
    >>> >Any second grader can see that. It is not a dumb concept, it is called
    >>> >arithmetic.
    >>> JJ.. How long have they had those computers?
    >> LOL. You sure are desperate now. It doesn't matter how long they had those
    >> computers, 5 million is still greater than 750,000. You said, quite simply and
    >> plainly, that they had more experts than computers. Period.
    >JJ what is an expert?? By the way..
    >Exactly, where did I say "more experts than computers. Period"??????
    > Answer: I didn't, JJ your smoking something again!!
    >> I can see why you would want to backpedal from such a stupid statement.
    >> However, instead you are digging yourself in even deeper.
    >>> For Six months? One year?. two years? Three years?
    >>> Maybe 10 million computer/years?
    >>> Divide out by user to developer ratio? 10 to 1.. 30 to 1..
    >> Actually, since you have no idea what the user to developer ratio is and
    >> are just pulling numbers out of your ass, that argument goes nowhere.
    >Actually. There are some good fundamentals for those numbers.
    > What is the fiscal break even ratio between users and developers?
    > Answer: Where the end user productivity savings, pay for both
    > equipment and salary of developer/support.
    > In the US.. a good guess would be 80 to 1 range for support, a much
    > higher ratio for developers.
    >> And if you actually knew anything about third-world countries you would
    >> know that the PC to developer ratio actually is usually not too far from 1 to
    >>1. Businesses in third world countries tend not to use PCs at all.
    >>> How about a similar number for the US.
    >>> Several billion computer/years?
    >> You weren't talking about the United States. You were saying that INDIA had
    >> more "experts" than PC's. That claim can never be proven or disproven by U.S.
    >> stats. You see, Tim, the way a logical argument works is that you produce
    >> evidence that relates directly to the objects of your statements, not just
    >> random alternatives you think might distract people from your claim.
    >Given that their are probably less than 330,000(*) Indian developer
    >computers/years to divided by the 3 year relevant work experience
    >requirement.
    >Yields less than 110,000 H1-B's meeting the min work requirements..
    >out of ~ 500,000 H1-B's for the time period specified..
    > Tack in the inflated experience requirements we've been seeing in
    > job adverts.. All would indicate work experience requirement well
    > in-excess of the 3 year minimum requirements.
    > Care to guess, how many Indian 1-B's are coming to the states
    > presenting false resumes? My guess at least 90 to 95%.
    >*Note: I didn't even bother to subtract out the numbers for
    >educational and/or recreational use.
    >>> So much for JJ's statistical abilities.. Alex in the same boat..
    >Tack onto that list, JJ's lack of consulting abilities.

What evidence has been provided for JJ's consulting abilities? I
certainly haven't seen him in a consulting situation. Have you.

Otherwise, all of the above is well and good, but still leaves open
the question: What do these statements of yours mean?

TK: "However.. Somewhere between 600,000 to 750,000 of H1-B's have
recently come from a country which around 7 million computers."
This seems to say that computercount = 7,000,000

TK: "They have provided more so-called experts, than computers."
This seems to say socalledexpertcount > computercount

So the simple question is, did you not mean what you said in one of
the above two statements, or are there more than 7,000,000 so-called
experts? And if so, where are they? We thought you were talking about
H-1Bs as the so-called experts.
--
Alex
Make the obvious change in the return address to reply by email.

Tim Keating

On Sat, 19 Oct 2002 01:44:53 -0400, alexy
wrote:

    >Tim Keating wrote:
    >>On Fri, 18 Oct 2002 23:13:10 -0500, "John Jacobson"
    >>posing with a fake ID of "Thus Spake Zarathustra"
    >>wrote:
    >>>"Tim Keating" wrote in message
    >>>news:q3l1ruorkasifeopuvkg9-
    >>>[email protected]    ...
    >>>> On Fri, 18 Oct 2002 22:31:45 -0500, "John Jacobson"
    >>>> posing with a fake ID of "Thus Spake Zarathustra"
    >>>> wrote:
    >>>> >"Tim Keating" wrote in message
    >>>> >news:vph1ruo9ud7ot270if-
    >>>> >[email protected]    ...
    >>>> >> On Fri, 18 Oct 2002 21:12:28 -0500, "John Jacobson"
    >>>> >> posing with a fake ID of "Thus Spake Zarathustra"
    >>>> >> wrote:
    >>>> >>
    >>>> >> >"Tim Keating" wrote in message
    >>>> >> >news711rucf3vivfj7-
    >>>> >> >[email protected]    ...
    >>>> >> >> On Fri, 18 Oct 2002 17:49:00 -0400, alexy
    >>>> >> >> wrote:
    >>>> >> >>
    >>>> >> >> >Tim Keating wrote:
    >>>> >> >> >
    >>>> >> >> >
    >>>> >> >> >>However.. Somewhere between 600,000 to 750,000 of H1-B's have
    >>>recently
    >>>> >> >> >>come from a country which around 7 million computers.
    >>>> >> >> >>
    >>>> >> >> >> So were did they get the flood of so-called experts??
    >> ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
    >>>> >> >> >> Answer... They didn't, They're not experts.
    >> ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
    >>>> >> >> >> Most of them can't even be classified as novices.
    >> ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
    >>JJ.. remember these words.. Look below..
    >>>> >> >> >>
    >>>> >> >> >>
    >>>> >> >> >>http://www.so-
    >>>> >> >> >>cio.demon.co.uk/magazine/7/venky.html
    >>>> >> >> >> (1.1 computers per 1000.. ~1.3 million computers, ~Jul 99).
    >>>> >> >> >>
    >>>> >> >> >>http://www.learnon.org/p-
    >>>> >> >> >>apers/India.pdf
    >>>> >> >> >>(3 million computers for a billion+ people, 2000.)
    >>>> >> >> >>
    >>>> >> >> >>http://www.time.com/time/asia/digital/magazine/0,9754,107313,00.ht-
    >>>> >> >> >>ml
    >>>> >> >> >>(less than 5 million computers for a billion+ people. apr30,
    >>>2001.
    >>>> >> >> >That argument goes nowhere, IMHO, and just feeds the anti-imigrant
    >>>> >> >> >image of the anti-H-1B forces.
    >>>> >>
    >>>> >> By Apr 30, 2001.. approx 2/3 to 5/8's of all H1-B's already imported.
    >>>> >>
    >>>> >> >>
    >>>> >> >> It demonstrates the wholesale fraud of the H1-B program!!.
    >>>> >> >>
    >>>> >> >> They have provided more so-called experts, than computers.
    >>>> >> >
    >>>> >> > No Tim. 600,000-750,000 is LESS than five million, not more. Basic
    >>>> >> > arithmetic, what a concept.
    >>>> >>
    >>>> >> Looks like JJ, thinks less than a years of experience/work with a
    >>>> >> computer makes them an EXPERT. Alex.. has also fallen for the same
    >>>> >> dumb concept. Instant EXPERTS... .. NOT... !!!!
    >>>> >
    >>>> > Tim, you said that India has provided more experts than they have
    >>>> > computers. They have five million computers, but according to you they
    >>>> > supplied 750,000 H-1B's. 750,000 is LESS than 5,000.000. Thus you were
    >>>wrong.
    >>>> >Any second grader can see that. It is not a dumb concept, it is called
    >>>> >arithmetic.
    >>>> JJ.. How long have they had those computers?
    >>> LOL. You sure are desperate now. It doesn't matter how long they had those
    >>> computers, 5 million is still greater than 750,000. You said, quite simply and
    >>> plainly, that they had more experts than computers. Period.
    >>JJ what is an expert?? By the way..
    >>Exactly, where did I say "more experts than computers. Period"??????
    >> Answer: I didn't, JJ your smoking something again!!
    >>> I can see why you would want to backpedal from such a stupid statement.
    >>> However, instead you are digging yourself in even deeper.
    >>>> For Six months? One year?. two years? Three years?
    >>>> Maybe 10 million computer/years?
    >>>> Divide out by user to developer ratio? 10 to 1.. 30 to 1..
    >>> Actually, since you have no idea what the user to developer ratio is and
    >>> are just pulling numbers out of your ass, that argument goes nowhere.
    >>Actually. There are some good fundamentals for those numbers.
    >> What is the fiscal break even ratio between users and developers?
    >> Answer: Where the end user productivity savings, pay for both
    >> equipment and salary of developer/support.
    >> In the US.. a good guess would be 80 to 1 range for support, a much
    >> higher ratio for developers.
    >>> And if you actually knew anything about third-world countries you would
    >>> know that the PC to developer ratio actually is usually not too far from 1 to
    >>>1. Businesses in third world countries tend not to use PCs at all.
    >>>> How about a similar number for the US.
    >>>> Several billion computer/years?
    >>> You weren't talking about the United States. You were saying that INDIA had
    >>> more "experts" than PC's. That claim can never be proven or disproven by U.S.
    >>> stats. You see, Tim, the way a logical argument works is that you produce
    >>> evidence that relates directly to the objects of your statements, not just
    >>> random alternatives you think might distract people from your claim.
    >>Given that their are probably less than 330,000(*) Indian developer
    >>computers/years to divided by the 3 year relevant work experience
    >>requirement.
    >>Yields less than 110,000 H1-B's meeting the min work requirements..
    >>out of ~ 500,000 H1-B's for the time period specified..
    >> Tack in the inflated experience requirements we've been seeing in
    >> job adverts.. All would indicate work experience requirement well
    >> in-excess of the 3 year minimum requirements.
    >> Care to guess, how many Indian 1-B's are coming to the states
    >> presenting false resumes? My guess at least 90 to 95%.
    >>*Note: I didn't even bother to subtract out the numbers for
    >>educational and/or recreational use.
    >>>> So much for JJ's statistical abilities.. Alex in the same boat..
    >>Tack onto that list, JJ's lack of consulting abilities.
    >What evidence has been provided for JJ's consulting abilities? I
    >certainly haven't seen him in a consulting situation. Have you.
    >Otherwise, all of the above is well and good, but still leaves open
    >the question: What do these statements of yours mean?
    >TK: "However.. Somewhere between 600,000 to 750,000 of H1-B's have
    >recently come from a country which around 7 million computers."
    >This seems to say that computercount = 7,000,000

But, then I adjusted the data to fit the April 2001 url. ~500,0000
H1-B's.

    >TK: "They have provided more so-called experts, than computers."
    >This seems to say socalledexpertcount > computercount

In the structural terms, yes..
You can't have experts without the appropriate ratio of users.

    >So the simple question is, did you not mean what you said in one of
    >the above two statements, or are there more than 7,000,000 so-called
    >experts? And if so, where are they? We thought you were talking about
    >H-1Bs as the so-called experts.

Alex Yeilding you're ignorance/trollisms are showing again.
Bad move for someone who supposedly sells actuarial services.
Do you paying clients get the same level of service?

Tim Keating

On Sat, 19 Oct 2002 01:44:53 -0400, alexy
wrote:

    >Tim Keating wrote:
    >>On Fri, 18 Oct 2002 23:13:10 -0500, "John Jacobson"
    >>posing with a fake ID of "Thus Spake Zarathustra"
    >>wrote:
    >>>"Tim Keating" wrote in message
    >>>news:q3l1ruorkasifeopuvkg9-
    >>>[email protected]    ...
    >>>> On Fri, 18 Oct 2002 22:31:45 -0500, "John Jacobson"
    >>>> posing with a fake ID of "Thus Spake Zarathustra"
    >>>> wrote:
    >>>> >"Tim Keating" wrote in message
    >>>> >news:vph1ruo9ud7ot270if-
    >>>> >[email protected]    ...
    >>>> >> On Fri, 18 Oct 2002 21:12:28 -0500, "John Jacobson"
    >>>> >> posing with a fake ID of "Thus Spake Zarathustra"
    >>>> >> wrote:
    >>>> >>
    >>>> >> >"Tim Keating" wrote in message
    >>>> >> >news711rucf3vivfj7-
    >>>> >> >[email protected]    ...
    >>>> >> >> On Fri, 18 Oct 2002 17:49:00 -0400, alexy
    >>>> >> >> wrote:
    >>>> >> >>
    >>>> >> >> >Tim Keating wrote:
    >>>> >> >> >
    >>>> >> >> >
    >>>> >> >> >>However.. Somewhere between 600,000 to 750,000 of H1-B's have
    >>>recently
    >>>> >> >> >>come from a country which around 7 million computers.
    >>>> >> >> >>
    >>>> >> >> >> So were did they get the flood of so-called experts??
    >> ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
    >>>> >> >> >> Answer... They didn't, They're not experts.
    >> ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
    >>>> >> >> >> Most of them can't even be classified as novices.
    >> ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
    >>JJ.. remember these words.. Look below..
    >>>> >> >> >>
    >>>> >> >> >>
    >>>> >> >> >>http://www.so-
    >>>> >> >> >>cio.demon.co.uk/magazine/7/venky.html
    >>>> >> >> >> (1.1 computers per 1000.. ~1.3 million computers, ~Jul 99).
    >>>> >> >> >>
    >>>> >> >> >>http://www.learnon.org/p-
    >>>> >> >> >>apers/India.pdf
    >>>> >> >> >>(3 million computers for a billion+ people, 2000.)
    >>>> >> >> >>
    >>>> >> >> >>http://www.time.com/time/asia/digital/magazine/0,9754,107313,00.ht-
    >>>> >> >> >>ml
    >>>> >> >> >>(less than 5 million computers for a billion+ people. apr30,

Here is a lsimple test for you, Alex Yielding.

Given these URL data points stated above and assuming a minmum 30
to 1 user to developer ratio.

Calculate the number of Indian computer experts with ten years of
full time industry experience? How about five years?

Ingo Pakleppa

On Fri, 18 Oct 2002 09:54:43 -0700, Tim Keating wrote:

    > On 18 Oct 2002 09:14:57 -0700, [email protected] (Kamal R. Prasad)
    > wrote:
    >>> Learn how the H-1B technical visa program is costing American jobs
    >>it is costing American jobs because it costs more to employ an American
    >>worker.
    >>IEEE has a survey posted on its website which shows that unemployment
    >>fell and the no. of jobs also fell (indicating that the jobs have been
    >>moved to overseas locations). You sure can expect this in times of
    >>recession when companies are trying to save pennies whereever possible.
    >>> and
    >>> undercutting your wages.
    >>the H1-B visa is restrictive and that forces engineers to accept lower
    >>wages in return for a green card. the fact that an engineer is on an
    >>H1-B does not mean that he is less-qualified or that he has a vested
    >>interest in driving down labor costs. regards
    > However.. Somewhere between 600,000 to 750,000 of H1-B's have recently
    > come from a country which around 7 million computers.

Where do you get your numbers? The number you mention here is the
approximately the total number of H-1Bs admitted in the last ten years
from the whole world.

Which country are you referring to?

Alexy

Tim Keating wrote:

    >On Sat, 19 Oct 2002 01:44:53 -0400, alexy
    >wrote:

    >>Otherwise, all of the above is well and good, but still leaves open
    >>the question: What do these statements of yours mean?
    >>TK: "However.. Somewhere between 600,000 to 750,000 of H1-B's have
    >>recently come from a country which around 7 million computers."
    >>This seems to say that computercount = 7,000,000
    > But, then I adjusted the data to fit the April 2001 url. ~500,0000
    > H1-B's.
    >>TK: "They have provided more so-called experts, than computers."
    >>This seems to say socalledexpertcount > computercount
    >In the structural terms, yes..
    >You can't have experts without the appropriate ratio of users.
But the above says nothing about ratios. You said that there were more
so-called experts than computers. Not that there were more so-called
experts than would be predicted based on the number of computers and
typical ratios of developers to computers.
    >>So the simple question is, did you not mean what you said in one of
    >>the above two statements, or are there more than 7,000,000 so-called
    >>experts? And if so, where are they? We thought you were talking about
    >>H-1Bs as the so-called experts.
    >Alex Yeilding you're ignorance/trollisms are showing again.
    >Bad move for someone who supposedly sells actuarial services.
    >Do you paying clients get the same level of service?

Sounds like you are finally beginning to recognize what you said!
Concession accepted. Actually, you were out of facts and logic on this
one a long time ago. I'm surprised you waited this long to go
personal. Guess it took a while to sink in!
--
Alex
Make the obvious change in the return address to reply by email.

Ingo Pakleppa

On Fri, 18 Oct 2002 09:39:45 -0700, No One wrote:

    > Foreigners are not required to register with Selective Service; so, why
    > should they have access to our job market?

That's not true; foreigners are required to register with Selective
Service. There is an exception for non-immigrants, but both immigrants
and undocumented aliens ARE indeed required to register.

Alexy

Tim Keating wrote:

    >On Sat, 19 Oct 2002 01:44:53 -0400, alexy
    >wrote:
    >>Tim Keating wrote:
    >>>On Fri, 18 Oct 2002 23:13:10 -0500, "John Jacobson"
    >>>posing with a fake ID of "Thus Spake Zarathustra"
    >>>wrote:
    >>>>"Tim Keating" wrote in message
    >>>>news:q3l1ruorkasifeopuvkg-
    >>>>[email protected]    ...
    >>>>> On Fri, 18 Oct 2002 22:31:45 -0500, "John Jacobson"
    >>>>> posing with a fake ID of "Thus Spake Zarathustra"
    >>>>> wrote:
    >>>>> >"Tim Keating" wrote in message
    >>>>> >news:vph1ruo9ud7ot270i-
    >>>>> >[email protected]    ...
    >>>>> >> On Fri, 18 Oct 2002 21:12:28 -0500, "John Jacobson"
    >>>>> >> posing with a fake ID of "Thus Spake Zarathustra"
    >>>>> >> wrote:
    >>>>> >>
    >>>>> >> >"Tim Keating" wrote in message
    >>>>> >> >news711rucf3vivfj-
    >>>>> >> >[email protected]    ...
    >>>>> >> >> On Fri, 18 Oct 2002 17:49:00 -0400, alexy
    >>>>> >> >> wrote:
    >>>>> >> >>
    >>>>> >> >> >Tim Keating wrote:

    >>>>> > Tim, you said that India has provided more experts than they have
    >>>>> > computers. They have five million computers, but according to you they
    >>>>> > supplied 750,000 H-1B's. 750,000 is LESS than 5,000.000. Thus you were
    >>>>wrong.
    >>>>> >Any second grader can see that. It is not a dumb concept, it is called
    >>>>> >arithmetic.


    >>Otherwise, all of the above is well and good, but still leaves open
    >>the question: What do these statements of yours mean?
    >>TK: "However.. Somewhere between 600,000 to 750,000 of H1-B's have
    >>recently come from a country which around 7 million computers."
    >>This seems to say that computercount = 7,000,000
    > But, then I adjusted the data to fit the April 2001 url. ~500,0000
    > H1-B's.
    >>TK: "They have provided more so-called experts, than computers."
    >>This seems to say socalledexpertcount > computercount
    >In the structural terms, yes..
    >You can't have experts without the appropriate ratio of users.
    >>So the simple question is, did you not mean what you said in one of
    >>the above two statements, or are there more than 7,000,000 so-called
    >>experts? And if so, where are they? We thought you were talking about
    >>H-1Bs as the so-called experts.

You know, this whole subthread is a brilliant illustration of the
point I made at the beginning. This kind of argument goes nowhere.
Besides making it look like the anti-H-1B cause is anti-immigrant, it
associates that argument with the kind of person who would make this
kind of absurd argument, and then stick with it for as long as you
did. You had a valid point about the unlikelihood of a need for H-1B,
but rather than riding with that, made the kind of foolish statement
and "analysis" that leads to this kind of thread. BTW, is this one of
your analyses that is more accurate than the work done at the Fed,
DOL, etc? LOL
--
Alex
Make the obvious change in the return address to reply by email.

Alexy

Tim Keating wrote:

    >On Sat, 19 Oct 2002 01:44:53 -0400, alexy
    >wrote:
    >>Tim Keating wrote:
    >>>On Fri, 18 Oct 2002 23:13:10 -0500, "John Jacobson"
    >>>posing with a fake ID of "Thus Spake Zarathustra"
    >>>wrote:
    >>>>"Tim Keating" wrote in message
    >>>>news:q3l1ruorkasifeopuvkg-
    >>>>[email protected]    ...
    >>>>> On Fri, 18 Oct 2002 22:31:45 -0500, "John Jacobson"
    >>>>> posing with a fake ID of "Thus Spake Zarathustra"
    >>>>> wrote:
    >>>>> >"Tim Keating" wrote in message
    >>>>> >news:vph1ruo9ud7ot270i-
    >>>>> >[email protected]    ...
    >>>>> >> On Fri, 18 Oct 2002 21:12:28 -0500, "John Jacobson"
    >>>>> >> posing with a fake ID of "Thus Spake Zarathustra"
    >>>>> >> wrote:
    >>>>> >>
    >>>>> >> >"Tim Keating" wrote in message
    >>>>> >> >news711rucf3vivfj-
    >>>>> >> >[email protected]    ...
    >>>>> >> >> On Fri, 18 Oct 2002 17:49:00 -0400, alexy
    >>>>> >> >> wrote:
    >>>>> >> >>
    >>>>> >> >> >Tim Keating wrote:
    >>>>> >> >> >
    >>>>> >> >> >
    >>>>> >> >> >>However.. Somewhere between 600,000 to 750,000 of H1-B's have
    >>>>recently
    >>>>> >> >> >>come from a country which around 7 million computers.
    >>>>> >> >> >>
    >>>>> >> >> >> So were did they get the flood of so-called experts??
    >>> ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
    >>>>> >> >> >> Answer... They didn't, They're not experts.
    >>> ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
    >>>>> >> >> >> Most of them can't even be classified as novices.
    >>> ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
    >>>JJ.. remember these words.. Look below..
    >>>>> >> >> >>
    >>>>> >> >> >>
    >>>>> >> >> >>http://www.s-
    >>>>> >> >> >>ocio.demon.co.uk/magazine/7/venky.html
    >>>>> >> >> >> (1.1 computers per 1000.. ~1.3 million computers, ~Jul 99).
    >>>>> >> >> >>
    >>>>> >> >> >>http://www.learnon.org/-
    >>>>> >> >> >>papers/India.pdf
    >>>>> >> >> >>(3 million computers for a billion+ people, 2000.)
    >>>>> >> >> >>
    >>>>> >> >> >>http://www.time.com/time/asia/digital/magazine/0,9754,107313,00.-
    >>>>> >> >> >>html
    >>>>> >> >> >>(less than 5 million computers for a billion+ people. apr30,
    >Here is a lsimple test for you, Alex Yielding.
    > Given these URL data points stated above and assuming a minmum 30
    > to 1 user to developer ratio.
    > Calculate the number of Indian computer experts with ten years of
    > full time industry experience? How about five years?

Neither of those can be determined with the data given. But I'll play
along, and state other assumptions needed to calculate such a number.

Assume the 1.3 million computers for July '99 was constant for the
last ten years.
That means that at a 30-to-1 user to developer ratio for computer use,
that there were 41,935 computers in use by developers.
Assume a 10% turnover rate for developers.
Assume no re-entrants.
Assume the industry started 20 years ago, and built from 0 to the 1.3
million computer level linearly over 10 years.
Plus LOTS of other assumptions that need to be made for such a
calculation, but that I will not confuse you with, since you think
this is a simple test.
That would give you 14,622 with ten+ years of experience and 22,286
with 5+ years' experience.

Now a test for you: Johnny has 750,000 apples and 7,000,000 oranges.
Linda says Johnny has more apples than oranges. Is Linda right?
--
Alex
Make the obvious change in the return address to reply by email.