12 Years on; more bad than good
Oct 6th 2014, 7:13 pm
#16
BE Enthusiast
Joined: Apr 2006
Location: Was Torbay, NZ now North Yorkshire UK
Posts: 813
Re: 12 Years on; more bad than good
Hi, and thanks for the replies. Its more that we feel responsible for bringing the kids here and that we would be abandoning them if we left. I know they want to stay but I'm sure you understand what we mean?
On the subject of Citizenship how does it help us if we get it as I thought as we had permanent residency we could come and go as we pleased? Also how would getting it affect us if we decided to go to NZ which we have considered as it seems so much closer to the kids?
We heard something about it was easy to get as we have been here over 10 years?
On the subject of Citizenship how does it help us if we get it as I thought as we had permanent residency we could come and go as we pleased? Also how would getting it affect us if we decided to go to NZ which we have considered as it seems so much closer to the kids?
We heard something about it was easy to get as we have been here over 10 years?
Our oldest returned alone and we waited 3 years, eventually for financial and education reasons we decided we had to leave. So after our daughter finished school we set her up for uni and left her in NZ. We didn't get citizenship but got it for her. We have indefinite returning residence visas.
We definitely made the right choice in leaving but miss our daughter every day. Hopefully after uni she will return, if not eventually we will go back.
Its not easy but it can work. Good Luck
Oct 7th 2014, 10:33 pm
#17
Almost more Oz than Pom
Joined: Aug 2010
Location: Brisbane northern suburbs
Posts: 1,154
Re: 12 Years on; more bad than good
Hindsighttoo, it would be interesting to know where you live - there are parts of your post which suggest to me that you are in a town like Gympie (lots of guns, racism, etc). I have been in Australia for over 30 years, my children grew up here and consider themselves Australian, and having lived in the suburbs of both Adelaide and Brisbane I have never found racism to be a dominant feature: sure you come across the odd one or two just like you do in the UK, but not that many.
I've also worked in the outback where the largest town for a few hundred kilometres has a population of 200 and in general I've found these places to be free from racism. Racism really only becomes dominant in areas where a high percentage of the population is living on social security payments.
I'm sorry you feel trapped, but I would not want anyone thinking of coming here to believe that your experiences are typical.
I've also worked in the outback where the largest town for a few hundred kilometres has a population of 200 and in general I've found these places to be free from racism. Racism really only becomes dominant in areas where a high percentage of the population is living on social security payments.
I'm sorry you feel trapped, but I would not want anyone thinking of coming here to believe that your experiences are typical.
Oct 10th 2014, 9:41 am
#18
Forum Regular
Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 104
Re: 12 Years on; more bad than good
I empathise with you. I was near Melbourne for 8 years and in the last few years always had that feeling of being marooned on the arse-end of the world (that is a quote from an ozzie friend!).
Add to that a year of unemployment and mounting debt, I decided to just have a go at applying for a role in UK. That was just 10 weeks ago and I am already back in the UK. It is home and I love it, warts and all. My children are both under 10 though.
I understand your dilemma - I can't imagine ever being too far from my kids. Being a parent is about sacrifice - I know in this day and age of selfishness and self-centredness - it is not a popular thing to say. This leads to a dilemma to the core of what you want.
To make a move back to the UK I guess it depends on your family dynamics. Do you have children who genuinely enjoy having you around and like your company - are you really close - or are you just there when they need you (like a vending machine). Sometimes moving away makes you closer as a family because you make effort to spend time together through skype or long vacations.
I had a friend whose parents would visit for 3 months at a time in Australia. The parents detested Australia, the 'dumbness of the people and superficial lifestyle' and couldn't fathom why their only child moved there! The parents clearly missed their child but they told me that they spent more time with him than before the move and they skyped every weekend.
Certainly your family don't want you to be a nervous wreck! I suggest an extended break in UK - even if it is expensive.
Add to that a year of unemployment and mounting debt, I decided to just have a go at applying for a role in UK. That was just 10 weeks ago and I am already back in the UK. It is home and I love it, warts and all. My children are both under 10 though.
I understand your dilemma - I can't imagine ever being too far from my kids. Being a parent is about sacrifice - I know in this day and age of selfishness and self-centredness - it is not a popular thing to say. This leads to a dilemma to the core of what you want.
To make a move back to the UK I guess it depends on your family dynamics. Do you have children who genuinely enjoy having you around and like your company - are you really close - or are you just there when they need you (like a vending machine). Sometimes moving away makes you closer as a family because you make effort to spend time together through skype or long vacations.
I had a friend whose parents would visit for 3 months at a time in Australia. The parents detested Australia, the 'dumbness of the people and superficial lifestyle' and couldn't fathom why their only child moved there! The parents clearly missed their child but they told me that they spent more time with him than before the move and they skyped every weekend.
Certainly your family don't want you to be a nervous wreck! I suggest an extended break in UK - even if it is expensive.
Oct 29th 2014, 7:21 am
#19
BE Enthusiast
Joined: Jun 2004
Location: North Wales > Manly, Brisbane > Gympie!
Posts: 530
Re: 12 Years on; more bad than good
Hindsighttoo, it would be interesting to know where you live - there are parts of your post which suggest to me that you are in a town like Gympie (lots of guns, racism, etc). I have been in Australia for over 30 years, my children grew up here and consider themselves Australian, and having lived in the suburbs of both Adelaide and Brisbane I have never found racism to be a dominant feature: sure you come across the odd one or two just like you do in the UK, but not that many.
I've also worked in the outback where the largest town for a few hundred kilometres has a population of 200 and in general I've found these places to be free from racism. Racism really only becomes dominant in areas where a high percentage of the population is living on social security payments.
I'm sorry you feel trapped, but I would not want anyone thinking of coming here to believe that your experiences are typical.
I've also worked in the outback where the largest town for a few hundred kilometres has a population of 200 and in general I've found these places to be free from racism. Racism really only becomes dominant in areas where a high percentage of the population is living on social security payments.
I'm sorry you feel trapped, but I would not want anyone thinking of coming here to believe that your experiences are typical.
Oct 30th 2014, 6:10 am
#21
'Made in Ulster' Member
Joined: Dec 2008
Location: Brisbane, QLD. (Though an Ulster girl through and through!)
Posts: 6,578
Re: 12 Years on; more bad than good
No idea where the gun thing comes from either? Can the OP explain further...
Oct 30th 2014, 2:59 pm
#23
Concierge
Joined: Jan 2013
Location: Western Australia
Posts: 21,137
Re: 12 Years on; more bad than good
I had a friend whose parents would visit for 3 months at a time in Australia. The parents detested Australia, the 'dumbness of the people and superficial lifestyle' and couldn't fathom why their only child moved there! The parents clearly missed their child but they told me that they spent more time with him than before the move and they skyped every weekend.
Oct 31st 2014, 12:03 am
#24
'Made in Ulster' Member
Joined: Dec 2008
Location: Brisbane, QLD. (Though an Ulster girl through and through!)
Posts: 6,578
Re: 12 Years on; more bad than good
Lurked, love it.
Nov 2nd 2014, 1:01 am
#25
BE Enthusiast
Joined: Jun 2004
Location: North Wales > Manly, Brisbane > Gympie!
Posts: 530
Re: 12 Years on; more bad than good
Most people who make the 'gun-toting, two-headed mutant, redneck, racist' comments about Gympie have never been or have only driven through and stopped at Maccas. You've got to live somewhere to find out what it's really like.
I've lived in Brisbane suburbs and in Gympie and I know which one I prefer!
Nov 3rd 2014, 10:39 pm
#27
Just Joined
Joined: Nov 2014
Location: United Kingdom
Posts: 17
Re: 12 Years on; more bad than good
Hi to all out there, this is my first post since we came here over 11 years ago and is one of those things I kept meaning to do but, well... you know...
As others have said it's more a matter of actually getting the emotions down in writing than anything else but maybe it will help someone (not everyone) thinking of coming to Aus, but it IS just MY views.
We are in SE Queensland and so everything is based on living here.
I don't want to write a long essay so I will just do a list of what we have found to be good and bad. Unfortunately I know that the bad list will be much longer than the good but again, this is just my/our experiences.
I might as well say this now, in hindsight we would NOT have come to Aus.
Ok, 1st the good but it's a short list...
The beaches. They really are wonderful, whether you want a patrolled one with safe swimming or somewhere you can be on your own, if you are near the east coast you are never far away.
The weather. Hot and sunny, in SE Qld it's usually like this for 8 or 9 months of the year. On the downside you can get tired of it and wish for a nice autumn day.
The traffic. We don't live in a major city and the traffic is definitely much less than England.
Cleaner; In general it is cleaner here, less litter etc but then most of the areas are newer...
Outdoor activities; Lots of sports you can do outside because of the weather, in particular swimming which is taught from an early age.
Illness/flu; We would usually gets colds or flu every year in England but very rarely get them here.
Now the bad...
The 1st bad point is something we never considered before coming here and the one I will write most about; we are TRAPPED here. We are a middle aged couple with grown up children (late teens/early 20's) who have their own lives here and really have nothing to go back to in England. They have boyfriends/girlfriends, friends & jobs here and see this as their home for good or bad. So even though we may want to go back, how can we split up the family and leave them here? Someday we will have grandkids, son or daughter in laws etc. ITS a HUGE dilemma with no solution we can see. We have permanent visas so in theory can live here or in NZ and anywhere in Europe yet in reality we can't. When you don't want to be here it's a horrible feeling. Also the fact that families split up when they have to get work hundreds of klms away is a big problem.
Racism. Being white ordinary working people we never considered it but in fact we discovered that many Aussies don't want anyone else here. They reserve a particular dislike for the English and anyone with a suntan, from the middle eastern countries right through to the Aborigines. Most racism is below the surface but there are plenty who will call you Pommie to your face. It seems to be worse in the older men and women.
The other bad points I will just list only briefly otherwise we will be here forever...
Courtesy; In general, most Australians are rude, selfish and have no idea what courtesy is.
Education; The education standard here is terrible.
Driving; The driving standard here is the same as the education standard but throw in the courtesy aspect as well.
Dangerous vehicles; In Qld there is no annual M.O.T test or similar unless you sell your vehicle and even then its a basic thing. This means you can buy a car and run it for 20 or 30 years or more and never have it checked by a mechanic. There are 10's of thousands of dangerous vehicles on the roads.
Healthcare; Unless you are in a major city it is poor and very expensive, lots of poorly trained doctors from other countries and they constantly move about so you can never have a doctor who knows you personally for long. And unless you live in a major city many services are unavailable and you will have to travel (a long way).
Expensive; Everything here is expensive, from food to cars (new and especially used) through to houses.
Insects; Mosquitoes and Sandflies can be a big problem.
Pets; Dogs are considered to be only good for living outside and throwing on the back on the ute (pick up) and leaving there in the hot sun all day. Try and get a rental with a dog that lives inside.
Guns; 100's of thousands of guns here and gun crime is far more than England. There are many private people who own more than 100 guns EACH.
TV; Mostly terrible and what makes it worse is the CONSTANT adverts. There is no way you can watch a film properly because of the ads; they drive you nuts. They are mainly about beer and burgers and seem to be produced by people who think that the viewing public have an IQ the same as the burger.
Well there is a load more things I am sure but that's it for now.
Again this is just my views/findings, some people will agree with some of the points, some with none of them.
If anyone I knew was thinking of coming here I would tell them DON'T which is probably a case of better the devil you know...
Good luck whatever you choose...
As others have said it's more a matter of actually getting the emotions down in writing than anything else but maybe it will help someone (not everyone) thinking of coming to Aus, but it IS just MY views.
We are in SE Queensland and so everything is based on living here.
I don't want to write a long essay so I will just do a list of what we have found to be good and bad. Unfortunately I know that the bad list will be much longer than the good but again, this is just my/our experiences.
I might as well say this now, in hindsight we would NOT have come to Aus.
Ok, 1st the good but it's a short list...
The beaches. They really are wonderful, whether you want a patrolled one with safe swimming or somewhere you can be on your own, if you are near the east coast you are never far away.
The weather. Hot and sunny, in SE Qld it's usually like this for 8 or 9 months of the year. On the downside you can get tired of it and wish for a nice autumn day.
The traffic. We don't live in a major city and the traffic is definitely much less than England.
Cleaner; In general it is cleaner here, less litter etc but then most of the areas are newer...
Outdoor activities; Lots of sports you can do outside because of the weather, in particular swimming which is taught from an early age.
Illness/flu; We would usually gets colds or flu every year in England but very rarely get them here.
Now the bad...
The 1st bad point is something we never considered before coming here and the one I will write most about; we are TRAPPED here. We are a middle aged couple with grown up children (late teens/early 20's) who have their own lives here and really have nothing to go back to in England. They have boyfriends/girlfriends, friends & jobs here and see this as their home for good or bad. So even though we may want to go back, how can we split up the family and leave them here? Someday we will have grandkids, son or daughter in laws etc. ITS a HUGE dilemma with no solution we can see. We have permanent visas so in theory can live here or in NZ and anywhere in Europe yet in reality we can't. When you don't want to be here it's a horrible feeling. Also the fact that families split up when they have to get work hundreds of klms away is a big problem.
Racism. Being white ordinary working people we never considered it but in fact we discovered that many Aussies don't want anyone else here. They reserve a particular dislike for the English and anyone with a suntan, from the middle eastern countries right through to the Aborigines. Most racism is below the surface but there are plenty who will call you Pommie to your face. It seems to be worse in the older men and women.
The other bad points I will just list only briefly otherwise we will be here forever...
Courtesy; In general, most Australians are rude, selfish and have no idea what courtesy is.
Education; The education standard here is terrible.
Driving; The driving standard here is the same as the education standard but throw in the courtesy aspect as well.
Dangerous vehicles; In Qld there is no annual M.O.T test or similar unless you sell your vehicle and even then its a basic thing. This means you can buy a car and run it for 20 or 30 years or more and never have it checked by a mechanic. There are 10's of thousands of dangerous vehicles on the roads.
Healthcare; Unless you are in a major city it is poor and very expensive, lots of poorly trained doctors from other countries and they constantly move about so you can never have a doctor who knows you personally for long. And unless you live in a major city many services are unavailable and you will have to travel (a long way).
Expensive; Everything here is expensive, from food to cars (new and especially used) through to houses.
Insects; Mosquitoes and Sandflies can be a big problem.
Pets; Dogs are considered to be only good for living outside and throwing on the back on the ute (pick up) and leaving there in the hot sun all day. Try and get a rental with a dog that lives inside.
Guns; 100's of thousands of guns here and gun crime is far more than England. There are many private people who own more than 100 guns EACH.
TV; Mostly terrible and what makes it worse is the CONSTANT adverts. There is no way you can watch a film properly because of the ads; they drive you nuts. They are mainly about beer and burgers and seem to be produced by people who think that the viewing public have an IQ the same as the burger.
Well there is a load more things I am sure but that's it for now.
Again this is just my views/findings, some people will agree with some of the points, some with none of them.
If anyone I knew was thinking of coming here I would tell them DON'T which is probably a case of better the devil you know...
Good luck whatever you choose...
Nov 7th 2014, 10:55 am
#28
Lost in BE Cyberspace
Joined: Oct 2005
Location: Hill overlooking the SE Melbourne suburbs
Posts: 16,622
Re: 12 Years on; more bad than good
Guns...
hmmm...
it is strict here - probably as strict as the UK. In fact I had access to the Fire Arms license data so had some idea.
Lots of primary producers have them for vermin control I believe. And others who are not so primary...(a safe and a .22 is not unusual)
I would also be interested where the OP was living and whether he got into a part of life that wasn't so great perhaps.
As a matter of fact I am looking into a license of sorts - for heritage reasons.
It all depends on your mileage.
hmmm...
it is strict here - probably as strict as the UK. In fact I had access to the Fire Arms license data so had some idea.
Lots of primary producers have them for vermin control I believe. And others who are not so primary...(a safe and a .22 is not unusual)
I would also be interested where the OP was living and whether he got into a part of life that wasn't so great perhaps.
As a matter of fact I am looking into a license of sorts - for heritage reasons.
It all depends on your mileage.
Nov 8th 2014, 8:45 am
#29
Crazy Cat Lady
Joined: Apr 2004
Posts: 65,493
Re: 12 Years on; more bad than good
The husband decided to sell his guns before we left. The paperwork to get a licence here seemed like way too much hard work.
Nov 8th 2014, 9:59 am
#30
Home and Happy
Joined: Dec 2002
Location: Keep true friends and puppets close, trust no-one else...
Posts: 93,803
Re: 12 Years on; more bad than good
Aussie gun laws were tightened up a lot after Martin Bryant ran wild at Port Arthur back in 1996, killing tourists and locals with several different weapons. From talking to people at work it seems that once you are in the Outback possession of guns is more widespread, fits more with the way of life out there. In QUeensland its also more common to own firearms in the far north, up towards the Cape, again its just part of life, but the guns are generally used for hunting. The frequent mass shootings that occur in the US aren't part of Aussie life, thank goodness.
