Gremmie

Now this girl talks sense

spockil

also be warned that the new licence that has the black and white photo only lasts i think 5 years so if planning moving need to renew so check the expiry date.

16wheeler

This is now a bigger problem than you think guys, if you will still physically hold a UK HGV/LGV on September 10th 2009 then you will automatically be given 'ACQUIRED RIGHTS' to your 'DRIVER CPC' until 2014, by which time you will be required to have undertaken 35 hours of set periodic training by Sept 2014 in order to keep it valid. (which most employers intend to organise for their staff)

I have spoken to VOSA (vehicle operator services agency) and this is what I have been officially told, so if I go before Sept this year then I in effect give up my rights to my HGV/LGV and if I wish to return to UK Truck driving will have to first sit my Driver CPC and then retake my test simply because I will not fulfill the requirement of holding a valid vocational LGV licence on September 10th this year. Incidentely this has already come into force for Bus/Coach drivers in Sept 2008.

It would appear that this is simply black & white and there are no exceptions. So in effect no UK LGV held on 10th Sept '09 the your HGV/LGV will be worthless.

If you wish to confirm all this just phone the VOSA no on their website, would you believe it is also premium rate call.

marcustandy

One of two things has happened here, 16wheeler;

1. Some numpty at VOSA has given you duff info (wouldn't surprise me!).

2. You have misunderstood or misinterpreted the info you have been given.

The requirement to which you refer is the CPC for Drivers, not to be confused with the (unfortunately) very similarly named CPC that is relevant to transport managers.

It is not a requirement to complete the CPC for Drivers before acquiring a vocational licence, however, it is a requirement to have completed the 35 hours training (as you correctly alluded to) before commencing employment as a vocational driver.

It will become common place in the future that when you are interviewed, and subsequently employed by a transport company, that they will spend the first week of your employment putting you through the CPC for Drivers syllabus.

The CPC (for Drivers) is a double-edged sword and to be honest, it's introduction can be attributed to 'the voice of drivers' over the years, albeit usually via the mouthpiece that is the Unions. Drivers often complained that we were/are doing a professional job that entails a lot of training and thereafter, a lot of responsibility and yet the complaint was that the wages did not reflect this.

At the same time there were countless 'cowboys' running trucks up and down the country. Although they were a relatively small percentage of (professional/vocational) drivers, that's all it takes to get the industry a bad name. Hence the reason for introducing some way to prove/measure a professional drivers competence and professionalism; the CPC for Drivers.

Now, if this had been properly thought-out with correct consultation with the industry as a whole (not the 'full of self-importance' Unions who are only looking after themselves) the concept of the CPC could have been a real winner.

The harsh reality is that those moaning drivers who wanted more money because they were 'underpaid professionals' often turn out to be some of the drivers that the industry would be better without. Some of those same drivers know that they are going to struggle with the theory side of the syllabus and yet, if we are all doing our driving jobs in a fully professional manner, there is a lot of 'theory' and administration involved, hence the reason for it to be included in the CPC. Having a full and total understanding of European Drivers Hours Legislation, Working Time Directive, Health & Safety, the theory of correct & safe loading & restraint, daily pre & post checks, fault reporting etc etc etc does require a person of professional ability. Vocational driving is no longer a job for a 'all brawn & no brain' type of person.

If the CPC is going to lead to some kind of natural wastage of those that aren't up to it, good! The shortage of drivers will eventually push the rates/wages up and so the moaning drivers of yesteryear' will get what they wanted - an increase of pay, relevant to a 'professional'.

I know that there will be drivers out there who disagree because they have always done a good job, based on years of experience etc, but the point is that those of you who are doing a 'professional job' will have been learning on the job as your career progressed. Well, the difference now is that this learning is going to be accountable (i.e. in a structured training environment) and for those who are capable it will be, at worst, a boring week 'back at school'. The good drivers amongst us have nothing to fear.

Those that are going to feel the pain the most (apart from the real dross in our industry) are agency drivers. It is yet to be seen how these individuals will accomplish the training requirements. Will an agency put them through the training? I doubt it unless they are 'contracted agency drivers'. I have already heard of a few agency drivers enquiring as to the costs of putting themselves through this training and depending on actual costs, this may well be the better option so as to ensure the 'freedom' that most agency drivers prefer.

As an example of 'licence first, CPC second', don't forget there are certain exemptions from this requirement; the MoD is one example. Military drivers are not required (by law) to complete any CPC prior to being let loose in a truck. Having said that, it has been standard procedure for a long time now (certainly before the CPC was ever dreamed of!) that military drivers complete vehicle specific familiarisation training prior to being let loose. When compared to the CPC syllabus, the military training package not only meets the CPC standards (except in one TO* [training objective]) but it exceeds them! The MoD is now looking at getting this training mapped across so that it is recognised and that their personnel will have another qualification for civi-street, as and when needed. The consultation is now at the 'train the trainer' stage so it isn't far off.

*The MoD is exempt from European Drivers Hours Legislation, however, it has self-imposed military regulations that ensure that MoD drivers 'comply with the spirit of the law'. Realistically, military drivers do/should know about drivers hours but in the event of 'war' etc they can do what they need to to achieve the mission i.e. get the bad guys!!

In summary, the CPC will be an inconvenience until everyone gets used to it. There is a lot of 'drama' and scaremongering on this subject but let's not forget who originally wanted this; the drivers!! Now they've got it, they're complaining!!

Kinda fits with what I've said for a while; "A driver is only happy when he's unhappy!"

"If he's got nowt to moan about . . . . . . he'll moan about that!!"

or

"If he got nowt to moan about. . . . . . he'll find something!! Damn sight quicker than he'll find some work to do!!


Anyway, what do I care? I'm off to Canada!!

16wheeler

Thats exactly what I said my friend, you will be issued with a DQC (driver qualification card) which without one is an offence to drive for commercial gain.

So if you go after 10th Sept you will have attained aquired rights, and if you go before then you won't and as you rightly say you would have to take the relevant examinations. No missunderstanding at all thats the way it was clearly put to myself by the very helpful vosa person.

Has for the rest of it I cannot disagree with what you say, im not moaning just joined in to put a point across on some info that I had already looked into in depth, but looks like I'll be gone by then anyway so there you go, if I come back then I'll have to suffer the consequences, Never mind eh.


Extract from vosa info site.........
From September 2009, it will be an offence for LGV drivers
to work professionally without a Driver CPC unless they are
covered by one of the exemptions. The main exemptions from
having to hold a Driver CPC are: driving a vehicle with a
maximum authorised speed not exceeding 45 km per hour;
driving a vehicle used by, or under the control of, the armed
forces, a police force, or a fire and rescue authority; driving a
vehicle undergoing road tests for technical development, repair
or maintenance purposes.

coritani

I think what 16 wheeler means is that we would be classed as new starters if we go away and come back once the CPC has come in. As we already hold our licences, as you say, we have grandfather rights and dont need to do the initial highly expensive course and just have to attend the refresher (35hrs within 5 years).......but if our licence is not current when the CPC comes in because we are in Canada, then we dont get grandfather rights and are treated as a new starter and then must pass our CPC before re-gaining our C and C+E entitlements on our licence, in the same way someone new to the industry would.

As for the CPC itself, I think its a load of rubbsh just to make those drivers you mentioned feel more important after they finish their 10 hour shift at Tesco or TDG or any other such like company typically inhabitted by union-mined drivers who think working over a 10 hour day is a crime and a nightout is an injustice to humanity. Meanwhile the rest of us who go away all week or two/thee weeks just want to get on with the job and I for one can claim my main reason for wanting to leave the UK is the petty minded regulation we face as drivers and the CPC is just another extension to all that. I know there are drivers hours rules in North America, but atleast I wont be criminalised for moving forward 5 meters in he middle of the night off card so someone can get their truck out because the guy next to me has blocked him in etc. Something which I'm sure would be even more serious an offence in the EU when we're all educated CPC holders and hence liable for even more legal enforcement for petty technicalities. Thats my opinion anyway!

alandoug

My sentiments exactly. Ever tried one of the new digitachs? Bloody enforcement gone mad.

coritani

Luckily my 06 reg Actros came mere weeks before the introduction and the lease has been extended by two years! I'm hoping to get to Canada before ever needing to use my digital tacho and before having to even think about the silly cpc. I dont run bent but we all need to cross into gray areas now and then, moving off card for example, that doesn't make us cowboys, we're just humans, not robots.

bigwheels241

What - Another PMG

(PMG)

Public Money Grabber

bigwheels241

Now thats more £££££ from your weekly pay packet headding to the PMG

marcustandy

Although you could use on these numbers instead!

DAVIE_MAC

ERE Yas Go

0870 6060440

VOSA 0113 2543216 This is VOSA at their Leeds HQ

VOSA 0113 254 3295 VOSA Hillcrest House Leeds, for all CPC & vehicle operator queries.

CurtNIR

I'm just trying to get my class1 in the uk before september, so i dont have to worry about this CPC for a while lol

coritani

Have you already got your class 2? If so you'll be fine and need not worry.

CurtNIR

Yes i do!