Why do Americans think they won the War of 1812?
#1
Why do Americans think they won the War of 1812?
Not all Americans of course, most dont have much of an opinion on the matter, but I have come across a few online and face to face that claim the War of 1812 was an American win! But I dont know what their reasoning was. I am still no expert, but previously I had no knowledge base to base any opinion on.
The general flow seems to be
Britons: Have never heard of it, if they have, it was just a side theater of the Napoleonic War and thus win/loss are irrelevant terms. Napoleon was defeated.
Canadians: A win, Canada stopped the American invasion of Canada.
Native Americans: A loss.
America: A win, but why?
What were Americas war goals?
Annexation of Canada (arguable): This failed.
Stop British restrictions of US sea trade with Europe: Britain backed down from this before military contact occurred.
Stop impressment: This was not mentioned in the Treat of Ghent that ended the war, the practice ended because the Napoleonic war ended.
It doesn't look like the US war goals were acheved through the war. Though the two stated goals were achieved.
What secondary goals may America have had?
Stop British interference in the then North West, stop British support for the Native Indians, open up the North West to European immigrants and settlement: This was achieved, but never seems to be mentioned as a war aim.
Stop Britain from taking back the French/Spanish lands along the West of the Mississippi?: This seems to have been a possible British plan developed late in the war, and based on nothing more then the Battle of New Orleans, no such threat existed before the war.
So........any one got anything to add, what arguments have you heard from Americans on why they think they won the war?
edit: Oops! 1813 in the thread title, can't edit. Should of course be 1812.
The general flow seems to be
Britons: Have never heard of it, if they have, it was just a side theater of the Napoleonic War and thus win/loss are irrelevant terms. Napoleon was defeated.
Canadians: A win, Canada stopped the American invasion of Canada.
Native Americans: A loss.
America: A win, but why?
What were Americas war goals?
Annexation of Canada (arguable): This failed.
Stop British restrictions of US sea trade with Europe: Britain backed down from this before military contact occurred.
Stop impressment: This was not mentioned in the Treat of Ghent that ended the war, the practice ended because the Napoleonic war ended.
It doesn't look like the US war goals were acheved through the war. Though the two stated goals were achieved.
What secondary goals may America have had?
Stop British interference in the then North West, stop British support for the Native Indians, open up the North West to European immigrants and settlement: This was achieved, but never seems to be mentioned as a war aim.
Stop Britain from taking back the French/Spanish lands along the West of the Mississippi?: This seems to have been a possible British plan developed late in the war, and based on nothing more then the Battle of New Orleans, no such threat existed before the war.
So........any one got anything to add, what arguments have you heard from Americans on why they think they won the war?
edit: Oops! 1813 in the thread title, can't edit. Should of course be 1812.
Last edited by kimilseung; Dec 27th 2017 at 6:34 pm.
#2
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Joined: Mar 2014
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re: Why do Americans think they won the War of 1812?
Is it even registered as an event in the states?
I know in Canada it's a big part of its history and it was fun to be around for the 200th anniversary, but there are much more important historic events for Americans.
I know in Canada it's a big part of its history and it was fun to be around for the 200th anniversary, but there are much more important historic events for Americans.
#3
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re: Why do Americans think they won the War of 1812?
i think there's one specific reason why many Americans think they won the war of 1812, and that's the Battle of New Orleans. Obviously, it was a decisive American victory. The British argument would be that it's irrelevant, it was a mistake, it doesn't count - because the war had ended weeks earlier. The United States and Britain were at peace when the Battle of New Orleans happened, it's just that the news had not reached the local participants. Due to subsequent US political history, New Orleans remained a big deal - it was the obnoxious, genocidal Andrew Jackson's foundation myth.
Another reason - we know that by definition, the war was a draw. The peace treaty said, status quo ante. But the devil was in the details. America ended up with the whole of Maine, and a very good deal from Lake of the Woods to the Pacific. Why? Their commissioners were on the spot, arguing for their own land. The British didn't care so much, were far from London, and basically sold Canada down the river. I believe one or more of the British commissioners was in the pay of the Americans.
My perception is that Americans have always been very aware of the war of 1812. Burning the White House, "Oh Say Can You See" etc is in all their school history texts. British folk generally, much less aware..
Another reason - we know that by definition, the war was a draw. The peace treaty said, status quo ante. But the devil was in the details. America ended up with the whole of Maine, and a very good deal from Lake of the Woods to the Pacific. Why? Their commissioners were on the spot, arguing for their own land. The British didn't care so much, were far from London, and basically sold Canada down the river. I believe one or more of the British commissioners was in the pay of the Americans.
My perception is that Americans have always been very aware of the war of 1812. Burning the White House, "Oh Say Can You See" etc is in all their school history texts. British folk generally, much less aware..
#4
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re: Why do Americans think they won the War of 1812?
Well being a Brit and living in Canada and working with my US counterparts it only becomes a topic when perhaps one of those Mericans says something like how freaking awesome the USA is etc etc and I gently remind them that we burnt your White House down once and if you piss us off too much we will do it again
The look on their faces is priceless. I threatened to bring in a cake celebrating the 200th anniversary needless to say its never mentioned anymore and less even so since The Great Cheeto became President.
Oh the joys of a close working relationship and detente in the office
I do congratulate them on the outstanding job they did in Grenada and how our intervention of the Falkland Islands was like a teddy bears picnic compared to theirs.
The look on their faces is priceless. I threatened to bring in a cake celebrating the 200th anniversary needless to say its never mentioned anymore and less even so since The Great Cheeto became President.
Oh the joys of a close working relationship and detente in the office
I do congratulate them on the outstanding job they did in Grenada and how our intervention of the Falkland Islands was like a teddy bears picnic compared to theirs.
#5
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re: Why do Americans think they won the War of 1812?
Well done Former Lancastrian.
Americans are extremely very well-versed in the War of 1812, consider it a nationally defining, historically significant conflict and no doubt their psyche was really hurt when you threatened to bring in that cake (and that can only be the reason why they don't bring it up anymore).
Also, today Americans fret and quake at the UK's military might and what might happen if the UK ever turns on the US. Especially now that the UK is sharing an aircraft carrier with France. If there is one thing I would say about Americans' view of the world, it's that they deeply respect the military strength of European allies.
Americans can also identify Grenada and the Falkland Islands on a map, and remember in detail what happened there a generation ago. Throwing that at them, surely silenced any effort by them to bring up World War II or World War I which of course they never usually do.
Oh, they also universally, including in the South, call it "Murica" and it's really clever of you to try and ridicule their accent this way.
Well done, you.
Americans are extremely very well-versed in the War of 1812, consider it a nationally defining, historically significant conflict and no doubt their psyche was really hurt when you threatened to bring in that cake (and that can only be the reason why they don't bring it up anymore).
Also, today Americans fret and quake at the UK's military might and what might happen if the UK ever turns on the US. Especially now that the UK is sharing an aircraft carrier with France. If there is one thing I would say about Americans' view of the world, it's that they deeply respect the military strength of European allies.
Americans can also identify Grenada and the Falkland Islands on a map, and remember in detail what happened there a generation ago. Throwing that at them, surely silenced any effort by them to bring up World War II or World War I which of course they never usually do.
Oh, they also universally, including in the South, call it "Murica" and it's really clever of you to try and ridicule their accent this way.
Well done, you.
#6
Lost in BE Cyberspace
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re: Why do Americans think they won the War of 1812?
Office banter and taking the piss was never my forte I should just stick to doing my job.
#7
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re: Why do Americans think they won the War of 1812?
As I recall, all my American history school texts and teachers concluded, "it was a draw."
I once met two guys from Ghent while travelling through Europe. I told them that all American schoolchildren learn about the Treaty of Ghent of 1814. They had never heard of it.
I once met two guys from Ghent while travelling through Europe. I told them that all American schoolchildren learn about the Treaty of Ghent of 1814. They had never heard of it.
#8
re: Why do Americans think they won the War of 1812?
This week I asked my FIL what he knew of the war, "Something about the British forgetting to bring ladders" which is a reference to British failure at New Orleans, so you might be right. There is a terrible book I read recently, claimed to be authored by Fox host Brian Kilmeade "Andrew Jackson and the Miracle of New Orleans". It is nothing but a eulogy to Jackson. It certainly tries to extract New Orleans apart from the rest of the war and place Jackson as a national redeemer.
#9
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re: Why do Americans think they won the War of 1812?
One thing Canadians and Brits, and anyone outside America should know, is that Americans really don't care about any of their previous wars unless they were in them (i.e. veterans).
Yes, an average American can tell you that their country is great, but will be hard pressed to tell you in a factual/historical manner why they think their country is great.
In fact, most of the conversations of late have been fairly paranoid about being bombed by North Korea.
Yes, an average American can tell you that their country is great, but will be hard pressed to tell you in a factual/historical manner why they think their country is great.
In fact, most of the conversations of late have been fairly paranoid about being bombed by North Korea.
#10
Peace onion
Joined: Jul 2006
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re: Why do Americans think they won the War of 1812?
What happened in 1812 other than an overture?
#11
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re: Why do Americans think they won the War of 1812?
I don't think this is the case at all. I find there's a great interest in military history in the United States. This includes French and Indian War, 1812, US Civil War, Spanish - American War. I'm guessing those who read about these wars, visit museums and battlefields etc. didn't serve in those wars.
#12
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#13
re: Why do Americans think they won the War of 1812?
Is it true that Americans believe that the US won the war of 1812 ?
My opinion, if that's what Americans are saying, is probably because we didn't lose any territories and the fledgling government remained intact.
History buffs would probably say it was a draw.
My opinion, if that's what Americans are saying, is probably because we didn't lose any territories and the fledgling government remained intact.
History buffs would probably say it was a draw.
#14
I have a comma problem
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re: Why do Americans think they won the War of 1812?
That can't be true. If it was a draw, it would have gone to penalties, and the English would have lost that, as is tradition.
#15
I still dont believe it..
Joined: Oct 2013
Location: 12 degrees north
Posts: 2,775
re: Why do Americans think they won the War of 1812?
And of course vietnam was fake news.