Go Back  British Expats > Living & Moving Abroad > USA > The Trailer Park
Reload this Page >

Why do Americans think they won the War of 1812?

Why do Americans think they won the War of 1812?

Old Dec 27th 2017, 6:24 pm
  #1  
He/him
Thread Starter
 
kimilseung's Avatar
 
Joined: Dec 2006
Location: WA
Posts: 18,804
kimilseung has a reputation beyond reputekimilseung has a reputation beyond reputekimilseung has a reputation beyond reputekimilseung has a reputation beyond reputekimilseung has a reputation beyond reputekimilseung has a reputation beyond reputekimilseung has a reputation beyond reputekimilseung has a reputation beyond reputekimilseung has a reputation beyond reputekimilseung has a reputation beyond reputekimilseung has a reputation beyond repute
Default Why do Americans think they won the War of 1812?

Not all Americans of course, most dont have much of an opinion on the matter, but I have come across a few online and face to face that claim the War of 1812 was an American win! But I dont know what their reasoning was. I am still no expert, but previously I had no knowledge base to base any opinion on.

The general flow seems to be
Britons: Have never heard of it, if they have, it was just a side theater of the Napoleonic War and thus win/loss are irrelevant terms. Napoleon was defeated.
Canadians: A win, Canada stopped the American invasion of Canada.
Native Americans: A loss.
America: A win, but why?

What were Americas war goals?
Annexation of Canada (arguable): This failed.
Stop British restrictions of US sea trade with Europe: Britain backed down from this before military contact occurred.
Stop impressment: This was not mentioned in the Treat of Ghent that ended the war, the practice ended because the Napoleonic war ended.
It doesn't look like the US war goals were acheved through the war. Though the two stated goals were achieved.

What secondary goals may America have had?
Stop British interference in the then North West, stop British support for the Native Indians, open up the North West to European immigrants and settlement: This was achieved, but never seems to be mentioned as a war aim.
Stop Britain from taking back the French/Spanish lands along the West of the Mississippi?: This seems to have been a possible British plan developed late in the war, and based on nothing more then the Battle of New Orleans, no such threat existed before the war.

So........any one got anything to add, what arguments have you heard from Americans on why they think they won the war?

edit: Oops! 1813 in the thread title, can't edit. Should of course be 1812.

Last edited by kimilseung; Dec 27th 2017 at 6:34 pm.
kimilseung is online now  
Old Dec 28th 2017, 4:42 am
  #2  
Forum Regular
 
Joined: Mar 2014
Posts: 214
TheAwesomeMatt has a reputation beyond reputeTheAwesomeMatt has a reputation beyond reputeTheAwesomeMatt has a reputation beyond reputeTheAwesomeMatt has a reputation beyond reputeTheAwesomeMatt has a reputation beyond reputeTheAwesomeMatt has a reputation beyond reputeTheAwesomeMatt has a reputation beyond reputeTheAwesomeMatt has a reputation beyond reputeTheAwesomeMatt has a reputation beyond reputeTheAwesomeMatt has a reputation beyond reputeTheAwesomeMatt has a reputation beyond repute
Default re: Why do Americans think they won the War of 1812?

Is it even registered as an event in the states?

I know in Canada it's a big part of its history and it was fun to be around for the 200th anniversary, but there are much more important historic events for Americans.
TheAwesomeMatt is offline  
Old Dec 28th 2017, 7:38 am
  #3  
Heading for Poppyland
 
robin1234's Avatar
 
Joined: Jul 2007
Location: North Norfolk and northern New York State
Posts: 14,453
robin1234 has a reputation beyond reputerobin1234 has a reputation beyond reputerobin1234 has a reputation beyond reputerobin1234 has a reputation beyond reputerobin1234 has a reputation beyond reputerobin1234 has a reputation beyond reputerobin1234 has a reputation beyond reputerobin1234 has a reputation beyond reputerobin1234 has a reputation beyond reputerobin1234 has a reputation beyond reputerobin1234 has a reputation beyond repute
Default re: Why do Americans think they won the War of 1812?

i think there's one specific reason why many Americans think they won the war of 1812, and that's the Battle of New Orleans. Obviously, it was a decisive American victory. The British argument would be that it's irrelevant, it was a mistake, it doesn't count - because the war had ended weeks earlier. The United States and Britain were at peace when the Battle of New Orleans happened, it's just that the news had not reached the local participants. Due to subsequent US political history, New Orleans remained a big deal - it was the obnoxious, genocidal Andrew Jackson's foundation myth.

Another reason - we know that by definition, the war was a draw. The peace treaty said, status quo ante. But the devil was in the details. America ended up with the whole of Maine, and a very good deal from Lake of the Woods to the Pacific. Why? Their commissioners were on the spot, arguing for their own land. The British didn't care so much, were far from London, and basically sold Canada down the river. I believe one or more of the British commissioners was in the pay of the Americans.

My perception is that Americans have always been very aware of the war of 1812. Burning the White House, "Oh Say Can You See" etc is in all their school history texts. British folk generally, much less aware..
robin1234 is offline  
Old Dec 28th 2017, 8:49 am
  #4  
Lost in BE Cyberspace
 
Joined: Nov 2011
Location: Somewhere between Vancouver & St Johns
Posts: 19,840
Former Lancastrian has a reputation beyond reputeFormer Lancastrian has a reputation beyond reputeFormer Lancastrian has a reputation beyond reputeFormer Lancastrian has a reputation beyond reputeFormer Lancastrian has a reputation beyond reputeFormer Lancastrian has a reputation beyond reputeFormer Lancastrian has a reputation beyond reputeFormer Lancastrian has a reputation beyond reputeFormer Lancastrian has a reputation beyond reputeFormer Lancastrian has a reputation beyond reputeFormer Lancastrian has a reputation beyond repute
Default re: Why do Americans think they won the War of 1812?

Well being a Brit and living in Canada and working with my US counterparts it only becomes a topic when perhaps one of those Mericans says something like how freaking awesome the USA is etc etc and I gently remind them that we burnt your White House down once and if you piss us off too much we will do it again

The look on their faces is priceless. I threatened to bring in a cake celebrating the 200th anniversary needless to say its never mentioned anymore and less even so since The Great Cheeto became President.

Oh the joys of a close working relationship and detente in the office

I do congratulate them on the outstanding job they did in Grenada and how our intervention of the Falkland Islands was like a teddy bears picnic compared to theirs.
Former Lancastrian is offline  
Old Dec 28th 2017, 9:23 am
  #5  
BE Forum Addict
 
Joined: Jan 2017
Posts: 2,900
carcajou has a reputation beyond reputecarcajou has a reputation beyond reputecarcajou has a reputation beyond reputecarcajou has a reputation beyond reputecarcajou has a reputation beyond reputecarcajou has a reputation beyond reputecarcajou has a reputation beyond reputecarcajou has a reputation beyond reputecarcajou has a reputation beyond reputecarcajou has a reputation beyond reputecarcajou has a reputation beyond repute
Default re: Why do Americans think they won the War of 1812?

Well done Former Lancastrian.

Americans are extremely very well-versed in the War of 1812, consider it a nationally defining, historically significant conflict and no doubt their psyche was really hurt when you threatened to bring in that cake (and that can only be the reason why they don't bring it up anymore).

Also, today Americans fret and quake at the UK's military might and what might happen if the UK ever turns on the US. Especially now that the UK is sharing an aircraft carrier with France. If there is one thing I would say about Americans' view of the world, it's that they deeply respect the military strength of European allies.

Americans can also identify Grenada and the Falkland Islands on a map, and remember in detail what happened there a generation ago. Throwing that at them, surely silenced any effort by them to bring up World War II or World War I which of course they never usually do.

Oh, they also universally, including in the South, call it "Murica" and it's really clever of you to try and ridicule their accent this way.

Well done, you.
carcajou is offline  
Old Dec 28th 2017, 10:09 am
  #6  
Lost in BE Cyberspace
 
Joined: Nov 2011
Location: Somewhere between Vancouver & St Johns
Posts: 19,840
Former Lancastrian has a reputation beyond reputeFormer Lancastrian has a reputation beyond reputeFormer Lancastrian has a reputation beyond reputeFormer Lancastrian has a reputation beyond reputeFormer Lancastrian has a reputation beyond reputeFormer Lancastrian has a reputation beyond reputeFormer Lancastrian has a reputation beyond reputeFormer Lancastrian has a reputation beyond reputeFormer Lancastrian has a reputation beyond reputeFormer Lancastrian has a reputation beyond reputeFormer Lancastrian has a reputation beyond repute
Default re: Why do Americans think they won the War of 1812?

Office banter and taking the piss was never my forte I should just stick to doing my job.
Former Lancastrian is offline  
Old Dec 28th 2017, 3:26 pm
  #7  
Forum Regular
 
Joined: Aug 2011
Posts: 211
HDWill has a reputation beyond reputeHDWill has a reputation beyond reputeHDWill has a reputation beyond reputeHDWill has a reputation beyond reputeHDWill has a reputation beyond reputeHDWill has a reputation beyond reputeHDWill has a reputation beyond reputeHDWill has a reputation beyond reputeHDWill has a reputation beyond reputeHDWill has a reputation beyond reputeHDWill has a reputation beyond repute
Default re: Why do Americans think they won the War of 1812?

As I recall, all my American history school texts and teachers concluded, "it was a draw."

I once met two guys from Ghent while travelling through Europe. I told them that all American schoolchildren learn about the Treaty of Ghent of 1814. They had never heard of it.
HDWill is offline  
Old Dec 28th 2017, 5:40 pm
  #8  
He/him
Thread Starter
 
kimilseung's Avatar
 
Joined: Dec 2006
Location: WA
Posts: 18,804
kimilseung has a reputation beyond reputekimilseung has a reputation beyond reputekimilseung has a reputation beyond reputekimilseung has a reputation beyond reputekimilseung has a reputation beyond reputekimilseung has a reputation beyond reputekimilseung has a reputation beyond reputekimilseung has a reputation beyond reputekimilseung has a reputation beyond reputekimilseung has a reputation beyond reputekimilseung has a reputation beyond repute
Default re: Why do Americans think they won the War of 1812?

Originally Posted by robin1234
i think there's one specific reason why many Americans think they won the war of 1812, and that's the Battle of New Orleans. ....
This week I asked my FIL what he knew of the war, "Something about the British forgetting to bring ladders" which is a reference to British failure at New Orleans, so you might be right. There is a terrible book I read recently, claimed to be authored by Fox host Brian Kilmeade "Andrew Jackson and the Miracle of New Orleans". It is nothing but a eulogy to Jackson. It certainly tries to extract New Orleans apart from the rest of the war and place Jackson as a national redeemer.
kimilseung is online now  
Old Dec 28th 2017, 9:48 pm
  #9  
BE Forum Addict
 
Joined: Dec 2005
Location: Colorado Springs
Posts: 1,213
neill has a reputation beyond reputeneill has a reputation beyond reputeneill has a reputation beyond reputeneill has a reputation beyond reputeneill has a reputation beyond reputeneill has a reputation beyond reputeneill has a reputation beyond reputeneill has a reputation beyond reputeneill has a reputation beyond reputeneill has a reputation beyond reputeneill has a reputation beyond repute
Default re: Why do Americans think they won the War of 1812?

One thing Canadians and Brits, and anyone outside America should know, is that Americans really don't care about any of their previous wars unless they were in them (i.e. veterans).

Yes, an average American can tell you that their country is great, but will be hard pressed to tell you in a factual/historical manner why they think their country is great.

In fact, most of the conversations of late have been fairly paranoid about being bombed by North Korea.
neill is offline  
Old Dec 28th 2017, 9:51 pm
  #10  
Peace onion
 
Joined: Jul 2006
Location: Denver
Posts: 5,686
Octang Frye has a reputation beyond reputeOctang Frye has a reputation beyond reputeOctang Frye has a reputation beyond reputeOctang Frye has a reputation beyond reputeOctang Frye has a reputation beyond reputeOctang Frye has a reputation beyond reputeOctang Frye has a reputation beyond reputeOctang Frye has a reputation beyond reputeOctang Frye has a reputation beyond reputeOctang Frye has a reputation beyond reputeOctang Frye has a reputation beyond repute
Default re: Why do Americans think they won the War of 1812?

What happened in 1812 other than an overture?
Octang Frye is offline  
Old Dec 29th 2017, 7:40 am
  #11  
Heading for Poppyland
 
robin1234's Avatar
 
Joined: Jul 2007
Location: North Norfolk and northern New York State
Posts: 14,453
robin1234 has a reputation beyond reputerobin1234 has a reputation beyond reputerobin1234 has a reputation beyond reputerobin1234 has a reputation beyond reputerobin1234 has a reputation beyond reputerobin1234 has a reputation beyond reputerobin1234 has a reputation beyond reputerobin1234 has a reputation beyond reputerobin1234 has a reputation beyond reputerobin1234 has a reputation beyond reputerobin1234 has a reputation beyond repute
Default re: Why do Americans think they won the War of 1812?

Originally Posted by neill
One thing Canadians and Brits, and anyone outside America should know, is that Americans really don't care about any of their previous wars unless they were in them (i.e. veterans).

.
I don't think this is the case at all. I find there's a great interest in military history in the United States. This includes French and Indian War, 1812, US Civil War, Spanish - American War. I'm guessing those who read about these wars, visit museums and battlefields etc. didn't serve in those wars.
robin1234 is offline  
Old Dec 29th 2017, 1:55 pm
  #12  
I have a comma problem
 
SultanOfSwing's Avatar
 
Joined: Feb 2009
Location: Fox Lake, IL (from Carrickfergus NI)
Posts: 49,598
SultanOfSwing has a reputation beyond reputeSultanOfSwing has a reputation beyond reputeSultanOfSwing has a reputation beyond reputeSultanOfSwing has a reputation beyond reputeSultanOfSwing has a reputation beyond reputeSultanOfSwing has a reputation beyond reputeSultanOfSwing has a reputation beyond reputeSultanOfSwing has a reputation beyond reputeSultanOfSwing has a reputation beyond reputeSultanOfSwing has a reputation beyond reputeSultanOfSwing has a reputation beyond repute
Default re: Why do Americans think they won the War of 1812?

Originally Posted by Octang Frye
What happened in 1812 other than an overture?
1811 ended.
SultanOfSwing is offline  
Old Dec 29th 2017, 3:25 pm
  #13  
WTF?
 
Leslie's Avatar
 
Joined: Aug 2003
Location: Homeostasis
Posts: 79,352
Leslie has a reputation beyond reputeLeslie has a reputation beyond reputeLeslie has a reputation beyond reputeLeslie has a reputation beyond reputeLeslie has a reputation beyond reputeLeslie has a reputation beyond reputeLeslie has a reputation beyond reputeLeslie has a reputation beyond reputeLeslie has a reputation beyond reputeLeslie has a reputation beyond reputeLeslie has a reputation beyond repute
Default re: Why do Americans think they won the War of 1812?

Is it true that Americans believe that the US won the war of 1812 ?

My opinion, if that's what Americans are saying, is probably because we didn't lose any territories and the fledgling government remained intact.

History buffs would probably say it was a draw.
Leslie is offline  
Old Dec 29th 2017, 3:28 pm
  #14  
I have a comma problem
 
SultanOfSwing's Avatar
 
Joined: Feb 2009
Location: Fox Lake, IL (from Carrickfergus NI)
Posts: 49,598
SultanOfSwing has a reputation beyond reputeSultanOfSwing has a reputation beyond reputeSultanOfSwing has a reputation beyond reputeSultanOfSwing has a reputation beyond reputeSultanOfSwing has a reputation beyond reputeSultanOfSwing has a reputation beyond reputeSultanOfSwing has a reputation beyond reputeSultanOfSwing has a reputation beyond reputeSultanOfSwing has a reputation beyond reputeSultanOfSwing has a reputation beyond reputeSultanOfSwing has a reputation beyond repute
Default re: Why do Americans think they won the War of 1812?

Originally Posted by Leslie
Is it true that Americans believe that the US won the war of 1812 ?

My opinion, if that's what Americans are saying, is probably because we didn't lose any territories and the fledgling government remained intact.
This is something I can say with confidence has never, ever come up in conversation in all the time I have lived here

Originally Posted by Leslie
History buffs would probably say it was a draw.
That can't be true. If it was a draw, it would have gone to penalties, and the English would have lost that, as is tradition.
SultanOfSwing is offline  
Old Dec 29th 2017, 3:31 pm
  #15  
I still dont believe it..
 
Joined: Oct 2013
Location: 12 degrees north
Posts: 2,775
uk_grenada has a reputation beyond reputeuk_grenada has a reputation beyond reputeuk_grenada has a reputation beyond reputeuk_grenada has a reputation beyond reputeuk_grenada has a reputation beyond reputeuk_grenada has a reputation beyond reputeuk_grenada has a reputation beyond reputeuk_grenada has a reputation beyond reputeuk_grenada has a reputation beyond reputeuk_grenada has a reputation beyond reputeuk_grenada has a reputation beyond repute
Default re: Why do Americans think they won the War of 1812?

And of course vietnam was fake news.
uk_grenada is offline  

Contact Us - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service -

Copyright © 2024 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.