zzrmark

As Mark Twain put it, 'there's lies, damn lies and statistics'.
Are you aware that the poverty rate is determined by using a formula that takes a basic food list that was compiled in 1960? Whilst the list is adjusted for inflation to keep the numbers correct the items consisting of a basic food list have not been updated. Critics of the figures point out that the weekly shop for basics in the 60's is long redundant and should be revised to take into account that which consists of a modern 'basic' shop. My sarcastic brain says that'd be a daily big Mac for many of the poorer folk but I don't think that's what they mean!

Hiro11

Just labeling the Census Bureau and ranks of welfare economists a bunch of liars and citing "critics" is too easy. Try harder.

Shard

As someone noted above, the US places a greater emphasis on 'self reliance'; the obverse of that is often less compassion. You do hear American commentators dismiss the poor as lazy
or morally failed far more frequently than you do in the UK. Evidence of this mindset is the destitution that blights certain American cities and regions.

mrken30

or not spent. It used to be that any school levy got passed. Recently some school levies are not being passed as purse strings get tighter.

What difference does it make if you don't have kids or send your kids to private school?

zzrmark

Here's one I took from your link, obviously I selected a paragraph that supports my argument. This one paragraph does not tell the whole story though, just as the use of statistics can be framed to suit an individuals argument.

I called no-one a liar. If you think Twain was saying that statistics are lies you have misunderstood him.

kimilseung

We often get told that Americans give more money to charity. I wonder if there are any stats on how that money gets broken down.
Money given to a church will be counted as a charitable gift, but how much of this money goes to what we will think of as real charity as opposed to church maintenance and keeping the preacher in the lifestyle that he has become accustomed.
Through my wife's professional work she often asks if people have resources in their community, they often say church and the Bible help them emotionally, but very few say they get any kind of material resources (things or time) from their church.
I know this is not true for all churches, as the church my MiL goes to, is very involved in the community and giving real support to people like food and shelter.
Keeping Joel Osteen at his 50 million dollar net worth and above should not count as charitable giving in my book, but it probably does to a bookkeeper.

zzrmark

Once upon a long time ago was bloke called Jesus who purportedly said 'it is easier for a camel to pass through the eye of a needle than for a rich man to enter the gates of heaven'.
I often wonder how it is that types like Osteen call themselves Christians and other people are happy to financially support that lifestyle knowing they are sending their 'leader' straight to hell...

kimilseung

It has taken me 12 years of living in America to fully realise just how unique Christianity in America is, and how tied to American culture it is.
Protestantism in America differs by a mile from the protestantism of the UK, I never really knew what Anglo-Catholic meant until I saw how far the Baptists are from the Church of England. (UK Methodists even are soft and cuddly compared to their US cousins). (Northern Ireland excluded)
American protestantism rejected the authority of Rome, and along with that came the questioning of all authority (England replaced one authority for another), this led to the continuing breaking apart of denominations as one after another had its authority brought in to question. It led to the birth of the idea of anti-intellectualism as authorities of all kinds became fair game for criticism.
The breaking away of the intermediaries between the individual and God that protestantism ushered in, brought the intense idea of individualism at the cost of community.
American culture, that of the individual free and independant against the central authority of Washington and government, is a direct result of the protestant revolution in Europe. Even gun rights can be traced to this idea, and the resistance to social safety nets from government.

mrken30

I can give charitable donations to my work, yet they can afford several million dollars a year to put their name on a stadium. Non-profits are sometimes just wasteful.

Wintersong

I believe these reports and rankings are generated based on self-reported charitable acts, so not necessarily the most trustworthy sources

Although, anecdotally, I'd have to say that I see much more charitable giving in the US than in the UK. A large part of that is probably that things which we have historically relied on to be government funded in the UK are not over here (healthcare being the most obvious - gofundmes for medical expenses are two a penny over here). However, there's also the natural disaster element. Hurricanes, wildfires etc. just don't really exist in the UK but they strike very regularly over here, and the response by the surrounding communities in terms of donating items, time, and money tends to be pretty incredible.

Lion in Winter

There is a major difference between social welfare that we all pay for through taxes and private charitable giving.. With the former, we are funding "common goods" that it might not be possible to deliver on without such funding - public education, health care, housing support, etc etc. If we depend on private charity, then only those deemed "deserving", or those who can get the attention by spending significant sums pitching their work to the public (I work for one of these charities in the US) get any support. It's hit and miss at best, and depends on the individual values and priorities of those contributing. Suppose your particular problem/disease/situation doesn't happen to be popular or popularised? Can you imagine the UK education system depending on private contributions? Or the NHS? They would probably shut up shop tomorrow.

morpeth

I find it interesting though that I read where the NHS is about 10% of the British GDP while health care in US is around 16%, yet medical coverage as a % of population les sin USA. Seems a rather illogical situation.

BritInParis

Unlike the NHS the US healthcare system has shareholders and dividends to pay. It would be interesting to know what the profit margin is.

mrken30

Not in all States, the biggest health providers in my state are both not-for-profit companies. It does not mean they are not wasteful and spend millions on advertising, but they don't publish accounts or pay shareholders.

BritInParis

Interesting, thanks. The NHS has the opposite problem - no competition and taxpayers' money to spend so vast sums are wasted on overpriced materials and labour.