mrken30

This seems a bit of a weird site, but I think there is some truth in this article.

Russia Moving Away From US Payment Systems in Response to Sanctions - RedTea News

Gordon Barlow

I've read the same report on other websites. It's a wholly plausible one, I think. China and Russia both fear the US's rampaging expansionism, and would dearly love to get out from under.

amideislas

Welcome back, Gordon.

US raging expansionism? As it enters the most isolationist phase in modern history? You do remember your special "conspiracy theory" thread, don't you?

Anyway, there's a trend away from most things USA at the moment. Britain too. Both are embracing the same isolationism. But there's a key difference: Trump will be out eventually (by force or by vote), Britain will simply have to live with it.

Britain and America suffer from similar delusions on trade

uk_grenada

Well, i think they are, but supported by most of the world.

China stopped buying american debt years ago. They own enough to destroy the dollar if they are true communists, but as they are capitalists at heart [imho] they wont, but they would prefer to own markets.

The house of saud truly wants to move oil settlement to another currency, preferrably chinese i believe, and the russians appear to concur. They are half way through their low oil price move to starve competitors, which appears to be working, but wont impact americas vast internal market i believe.

America also appears to have a gold problem - They defaulted a german requirement to return all physical gold at a huge paper cost, it appears either they havent got it any more, or they have it but have used it in bomb maintenance [its radioactive, plutonium in weapons has to be gold coated and in reprocessing you get the gold back but its hot] or the americans have decided to keep it strategically because its worth repeatedly paying out huge penalties [personally im with option 2]

So the world appears to support american isolationist moves.

amideislas

I characterise it this way; it seems the world is recognising the shift toward isolationism by the US (and Britain), and pulling back from them.

In fact, I suspect that if in the unlikely event that the Trump mess continues, Europe will become the new "leader of the free world" by default. Merkel has already been labelled that by some.

Britain, well, it's headed for isolation anyway, but Britain alone is just too small to have significant future impact on the overall landscape. Isolation of the US would be far more significant. But again, that's unlikely. Trump will be lucky to make it to 2020, and by that time, the isolationist rhetoric will probably be very out of fashion with voters (and the rest of the world too).

uk_grenada

LOL the eu as leader of the free world... I would put more credence in the chinese in that role, the russians even. The europeans would just fiddle while the world burns, the chinese would sabre rattle but with effect, the russians would nuke first and then argue it wasnt them...

amideislas

Erm, right now, I'd say the Europeans are burning some of the brightest candles in terms of freedom. Look around you. The US is (under Trump) is quite obviously seeking to shift more toward a pseudo-democratic autocracy like Russia. China and Russia hardly qualify as beacons of the free world. And Britain... well, obviously is struggling to cope with the consequences of its ideological anomalies, often compared with what's happening in America (and again, Britain certainly is not powerful enough to assume that role anyway).

No, I think it's far from LOL. From a macro view (and dismissing the unlikelihood of the US [ultimately] losing its way), it's really quite plausible.

uk_grenada

Not a snowballs chance in hell that an eu army or a german army is going to war with anyone.

I dont believe there is a 'free' world, there are just different sets of imposed limitations. Right now im on a caribbean island in uncle sams back yard. The biggest influence on the islands is China, who are building their own holiday resorts and we now see as tourists, though of course donations from all countries gratefully accepted. The currency is pegged to the dollar which is fine for now but guess whose knocking at that door. The russians would like to explore for oil but the americans said niet cause its too close to home [what a load of rubbish.]

When north korea or the phillipines kicks off, trump or successor will be in like flynn, the chinese will be inscrutible but will manage the rebuild then gain even more influence.

In europe russia will expand again and the eu will talk tough as the locals have a takeover with a little help from - not us Putin will say...

Little isolationist britain - same as now but with a little more agility and more opportunity to take a global advantage. Of course the eu would like brexit to be seen to fail to discourage other leavers, but as their biggest market and as we have no requirement to rely on them, i put my money on the uk.

amideislas

So, being "leader of the free world" means going to war?

I'm curious where you get the rest of your information. It sounds like you're being fed a steady diet of it from somewhere. British tabloids? Fox news?

uk_grenada

The only news I read is from the BBC and apple news, im ugly and experienced enough to make up my own cynical mind. Though i know Mr Fox i certainly dont listen to his media outlets, he himself has more than enough to do at his age with his new wife, surprised he's still with us really.

Imagine Merkel and Corbyn in say 2 years - shall we or shall we not invade hungary as they seem to have an internal coup. Better not, its all sort of democratic...

amideislas

WTF? Merkel and Corbyn? Huh? Hungary? WTF are you talking about?

Nevermind. I get it.

penguinsix

China has already purchased $29 billion US in 2017 and is still buying, as is Russia which increased their debt holdings $13.5 billion in May 2017 alone.

China's RMB is effectively pegged to the USD through the mandatory exchanges they enforce on their businesses. Wholesale liquidation would result in the destruction of the RMB and mass unemployment across the country, followed by political unrest.

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/artic...sign-for-bonds

https://www.thebalance.com/u-s-debt-...it-own-3306355

uk_grenada

Duh - thats why i said they wouldnt do it, if they were true communists they wouldnt care about the value of their currency externally if they could use it to crush the imperialist dogs.

Dont believe journalists, examine the data, but i cant see them increasing holdings like the japanese are

http://ticdata.treasury.gov/Publish/mfhhis01.txt

anotherlimey

The Chinese dumping their bonds would be a blip. It's not as serious of a problem as the some people think.

And no, no one is going to ditch the USD completely, it's still the safest by a considerable amount. The Euro probably comes second. The suggestion of China's or Russia's as a competing currency is laughable.

uk_grenada

Are you aware of the american fiasco regarding german physical gold - thats quite interesting... The american default has already and will again cost them dear i suspect.