Playing the Constitution card.
Apr 7th 2017, 3:46 pm
#16
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Re: Playing the Constitution card.
I understand that you, like many others, believe that social and peer pressure should be applied to children to engage in political rituals, I get that, and we will have to agree to disagree on that, as we are not going to change each others minds on that issue here.
Apr 7th 2017, 3:46 pm
#17
Concierge
Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 46,391
Re: Playing the Constitution card.
[/QUOTE=kimilseung;12223812] Her reasons are:
1. She doesnt believe in God[/QUOTE]
Not many people do but a great many do believe in god but not in organized religion, i.e. my husband and one of my two daughters.
And you or she know of a country where is true? Please tell us where so we may all aspire to emigrate there.
But she is the exception?
I respect her belief but do not accept it as my own. I'm so glad that both she and you can speak for all Americans and their values. Please do not speak for me or my family as Americans who have the same values. We do not share them. She is free not to believe as "we" do and to voice her child's opinion. I am just as free to think differently. At the very least I have had 6 decades to form my opinions, instead of just one.
1. She doesnt believe in God[/QUOTE]
Not many people do but a great many do believe in god but not in organized religion, i.e. my husband and one of my two daughters.
2. People are not equal in America, there is not justice for all.
3. People of her age are too young to make such decisions and commitments of allegiance to nation states.
Now it is true that she may have heard these sentiments expressed in her household in one way or another at times, but she came up with them unprompted and passionately. She researched law independently. For an eleven year old, I am impressed. I accept them as her believe and position, as much as an eleven year old can have such. She is an American, these are her values. Ergo, they are American values. In fact, what she talked about is generally and widely accepted as American values.
But I am sure she will appreciate you adultsplaining to her that she should be following what you do and believe.
But I am sure she will appreciate you adultsplaining to her that she should be following what you do and believe.
Last edited by Rete; Apr 7th 2017 at 3:55 pm.
Apr 7th 2017, 3:46 pm
#18
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Joined: Dec 2015
Location: california
Posts: 6,035
Re: Playing the Constitution card.
After years of becoming increasingly sick of hearing about the Constitution, I may get my own opportunity to play the Constitution card in my favour.
My eleven year old has decided that it is time to up her activism from not saying the Pledge of Allegiance at school, to choosing to sit during the time that other chose to participate in the Pledge.
Her teacher has now sent her out of the room on at least three occasions for her choice. I sent the teacher an email today stating my expectations that I be informed if my child is being disruptive during the Pledge, and if she isnt that she not be removed from the classroom. We will see what happens tomorrow. But if she is removed again tomorrow, then my next email will be up the chain and explaining that my expectations are modest in that they only require that the school abide by the law and safeguard students Constitutionally protected rights under the First Amendment.
I cant decide if I want the teacher to see the error of her ways, or give me the chance to spout off about the Constitution, First Amendment, and Freedums in general!
My eleven year old has decided that it is time to up her activism from not saying the Pledge of Allegiance at school, to choosing to sit during the time that other chose to participate in the Pledge.
Her teacher has now sent her out of the room on at least three occasions for her choice. I sent the teacher an email today stating my expectations that I be informed if my child is being disruptive during the Pledge, and if she isnt that she not be removed from the classroom. We will see what happens tomorrow. But if she is removed again tomorrow, then my next email will be up the chain and explaining that my expectations are modest in that they only require that the school abide by the law and safeguard students Constitutionally protected rights under the First Amendment.
I cant decide if I want the teacher to see the error of her ways, or give me the chance to spout off about the Constitution, First Amendment, and Freedums in general!
Apr 7th 2017, 3:47 pm
#19
Lost in BE Cyberspace
Joined: Jan 2006
Location: San Francisco
Posts: 12,865
Re: Playing the Constitution card.
Declining to pledge allegiance to the US every day doesn't indicate that one dislikes and abhors the US. Personally, I think daily recitation of a pledge is the antithesis of respect for the US in that it's a forced ritual - something the US has in common with a number of notably authoritarian states.
Last edited by Giantaxe; Apr 7th 2017 at 3:52 pm.
Apr 7th 2017, 3:50 pm
#21
I have a comma problem
Joined: Feb 2009
Location: Fox Lake, IL (from Carrickfergus NI)
Posts: 49,598
Re: Playing the Constitution card.
Interestingly, Bellamy was also a socialist
All else aside, I'm more impressed by the level of maturity being developed by an 11 year old who is self-aware enough to know what she believes in and is able to research her rights and how they apply by herself. That should be celebrated, rather than something the school sees as a reason to give her a hard time, especially at such a 'transitional' age.
Pick your battles, etc. Nobody was hurt by what she did.
Apr 7th 2017, 3:57 pm
#23
Concierge
Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 46,391
Re: Playing the Constitution card.
I fixed it and yes, I did read it with care. She is all of 11 years old and has formulated her opinion based on those of her parents. Quite a simple read. And actually it is how most children form opinions, likes and dislikes. They wish to emulate their parents and be loved and liked.
Last edited by Rete; Apr 7th 2017 at 4:02 pm.
Apr 7th 2017, 4:00 pm
#24
I have a comma problem
Joined: Feb 2009
Location: Fox Lake, IL (from Carrickfergus NI)
Posts: 49,598
Re: Playing the Constitution card.
I fixed it and yes, I did read it with care. She is all of 11 years old and has formulated her opinion based on those of her parents. Quite a simple read. And actually it is how most children form opinions, likes and dislikes. It wish to emulate their parents and be loved and liked.
Apr 7th 2017, 4:01 pm
#25
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Re: Playing the Constitution card.
You are conflating her words with my sentiments. You can not conflate the words of two distinct people and assume they are from the same mouth
I respect her belief but do not accept it as my own. I'm so glad that both she and you can speak for all Americans and their values. Please do not speak for me or my family as Americans who have the same values. We do not share them. She is free not to believe as "we" do and to voice her child's opinion. I am just as free to think differently.
Grow up, you are actually having a go at an eleven year old with this one, not me.
Last edited by kimilseung; Apr 7th 2017 at 4:08 pm.
Apr 7th 2017, 4:07 pm
#26
Lost in BE Cyberspace
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Re: Playing the Constitution card.
Indeed. I went to a religious primary school and remember being pressured to subscribe to some church magazine. I stood my ground and refused. My mother felt I should just subscribe just to keep the peace, but when she saw I felt strongly about it, she fought my corner with the school and they dropped the issue. I admired her for that.
Apr 7th 2017, 4:10 pm
#27
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Location: california
Posts: 6,035
Re: Playing the Constitution card.
Not believing in God IMO is not a reason for refusing to say the Pledge of Allegiance
Tell me of any country or society on this earth where complete and absolute equality is a state of existence ? When it comes to fairness, justice and democracy America comes very close to the top on all three counts. Naïve idealism is not constructive in any way.
A child is never too young to prepare for the responsibilities of citizenship in later years.
Tell me of any country or society on this earth where complete and absolute equality is a state of existence ? When it comes to fairness, justice and democracy America comes very close to the top on all three counts. Naïve idealism is not constructive in any way.
A child is never too young to prepare for the responsibilities of citizenship in later years.
Apr 7th 2017, 4:12 pm
#28
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Re: Playing the Constitution card.
I agree, thats why I am supporting her.
Apr 7th 2017, 4:19 pm
#29
I have a comma problem
Joined: Feb 2009
Location: Fox Lake, IL (from Carrickfergus NI)
Posts: 49,598
Re: Playing the Constitution card.
Indeed. I went to a religious primary school and remember being pressured to subscribe to some church magazine. I stood my ground and refused. My mother felt I should just subscribe just to keep the peace, but when she saw I felt strongly about it, she fought my corner with the school and they dropped the issue. I admired her for that.
There's no need for a group of adults to have a go an 11 year old for having a mind of her own though, is there?
I think she's got that well under control.
Apr 7th 2017, 4:23 pm
#30
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Re: Playing the Constitution card.
I was prepared for some to have a go at me, but I am completely shocked that some are having a go at the child involved here. (Which is making me think that resistance to such adult pressure is a good thing for children to have)