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Patient in Dallas confirmed to have Ebola.

Patient in Dallas confirmed to have Ebola.

Old Oct 14th 2014, 4:21 am
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Default Re: Patient in Dallas confirmed to have Ebola.

Originally Posted by Pulaski
Well that's not happening, not even close. From what I have seen the numbers are still growing rapidly, and the pledged support is going to take until the end of November to deliver, but would be inadequate even if delivered instantly given the numbers of cases today.

The figures show that 5% of fatalities are medical workers, so unless you find a larger number of trained doctors and nurses willing to play Russian roulette with a disease with a 60-70% mortality rate, the bigger issue is going to be finding enough people to deliver hands-on aid.

For these reasons I predict it is going to get worse, a lot worse, and spread to most other countries in Africa, and will likely lead to some sort of coordinated restriction on flights from any country in Africa.
The response has certainly been less than optimal. But regardless, a travel ban will make things worse.

Driving people underground is a large part of the problem. The virus spreads because the communities in Africa don't trust their governments and therefore aren't forthcoming with information. Hopefully, they can find enough personnel to do it.
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Old Oct 14th 2014, 4:34 am
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Default Re: Patient in Dallas confirmed to have Ebola.

Originally Posted by RoadWarriorFromLP
The travel bans would backfire. That's just security theater in action: something that sounds like a good idea to laymen who know nothing, but makes little sense in the real world.

The way to deal with this is to get aid in country ASAP. It's not as if there are large numbers of them holding US-bound airline tickets, anyway. But what you shouldn't want are West Africans who try to get around the travel ban by traveling elsewhere within Africa, where they can spread the disease even further.

In any case, there are zero direct flights between the US and Liberia. How exactly would you propose to reduce that to a figure less than zero?
First, no one suggests that we shouldn't get aid INTO those countries ASAP. That's why we're exposing 3,000 of our military folks there for that purpose. As for preventing people from flying to the US via Brussels or another point, a second spokesman for the CDC has assured a national audience that we have sophisticated and virtually fool-proof methods to identify passengers who are attempting to enter this country via connecting flights and could prevent their entry.

As a self-confessed non-layman, would you please explain how a travel ban on commercial flights involving people coming from the Ebola hotspots would be less effective at preventing the spread of Ebola into the US than keeping the doors open and relying on the new screening procedures that most experts are telling us are useless?

The Screening: What we've heard about the screening is that people coming here will be asked if they've been exposed to Ebola (and hope they don't lie like Mr. Duncan ), their temperatures will be taken with a device that doesn't touch them (and which we've been told is inaccurate and ineffective - especially if they chug Tylenol beforehand to bring their temperature down) - then they're told to monitor their condition if they do have a temperature, after which they're free to mingle with you and your kids if that's where fate takes them.

That's more effective than trying our level best to keep them out? Just asking.

Originally Posted by RoadWarriorFromLP
...the communities in Africa don't trust their governments...
The communities in this country don't trust their government, either.

Last edited by FlaviusAetius; Oct 14th 2014 at 4:48 am.
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Old Oct 14th 2014, 5:36 am
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Default Re: Patient in Dallas confirmed to have Ebola.

Originally Posted by FlaviusAetius
First, no one suggests that we shouldn't get aid INTO those countries ASAP. That's why we're exposing 3,000 of our military folks there for that purpose. As for preventing people from flying to the US via Brussels or another point, a second spokesman for the CDC has assured a national audience that we have sophisticated and virtually fool-proof methods to identify passengers who are attempting to enter this country via connecting flights and could prevent their entry.

As a self-confessed non-layman, would you please explain how a travel ban on commercial flights involving people coming from the Ebola hotspots would be less effective at preventing the spread of Ebola into the US than keeping the doors open and relying on the new screening procedures that most experts are telling us are useless?

The Screening: What we've heard about the screening is that people coming here will be asked if they've been exposed to Ebola (and hope they don't lie like Mr. Duncan ), their temperatures will be taken with a device that doesn't touch them (and which we've been told is inaccurate and ineffective - especially if they chug Tylenol beforehand to bring their temperature down) - then they're told to monitor their condition if they do have a temperature, after which they're free to mingle with you and your kids if that's where fate takes them.

That's more effective than trying our level best to keep them out? Just asking.



The communities in this country don't trust their government, either.
You presume wrongly that a travel ban will simply result in a cessation of travel.

Instead, a travel ban would have spillover effects such as economic decline and a reduction in foreign aid (since those who are traveling there to help don't want to get stuck there), which will motivate more people to want to leave.

Some of them will not be able to circumvent the ban. But those who try will go to great lengths to do it and will expose themselves to more people in the process, which only spreads the disease even more than it otherwise would. If the goal is to contain the disease at the source, then you've just made achieving that goal that much more difficult.

It's all about unintended consequences. A travel ban is loaded with them.
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Old Oct 14th 2014, 8:41 am
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Default Re: Patient in Dallas confirmed to have Ebola.

More about the nurse infected in Dallas. Authorities don't seem to be rushing to kill her dog as they did in Spain either.

More than a nurse: Who is Ebola patient Nina Pham? - CNN.com


Medical worker who was flown to Germany for treatment has died

http://globalnews.ca/news/1612749/un...rman-hospital/

Last edited by scrubbedexpat091; Oct 14th 2014 at 8:52 am.
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Old Oct 14th 2014, 3:46 pm
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Default Re: Patient in Dallas confirmed to have Ebola.

I am sure I am not the only one to remember the peanut butter thread.

Ebola seems more important.
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Old Oct 15th 2014, 1:54 am
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Default Re: Patient in Dallas confirmed to have Ebola.

Texas nurses: 'There were no protocols' about Ebola - CNN.com

In this article nurses treating patient zero were told to wrap their necks with medical tape as the protective clothing they had didn't cover their necks.

I am tired of seeing cleaners in hazmat suits going to clear the belongings of ebola victims and the people taking care of ebola victims get paper or plastic gowns and medical tape.

I wish that the hospital had fessed up to begin with about their lack of proper personal protective equipment and not had the public believe that ebola was Being transmitted through the proper attire.

I wish the CDC had not deemed the second Ebola victim as having breached protocol without knowing what happened or what she was wearing.

Appropriate use of medical tape is for bandages. And possibly taping up CDC and hospital spokespeoples mouths.
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Old Oct 15th 2014, 2:28 am
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Default Re: Patient in Dallas confirmed to have Ebola.

Originally Posted by Mrs Danvers
Texas nurses: 'There were no protocols' about Ebola - CNN.com

In this article nurses treating patient zero were told to wrap their necks with medical tape as the protective clothing they had didn't cover their necks.

I am tired of seeing cleaners in hazmat suits going to clear the belongings of ebola victims and the people taking care of ebola victims get paper or plastic gowns and medical tape.

I wish that the hospital had fessed up to begin with about their lack of proper personal protective equipment and not had the public believe that ebola was Being transmitted through the proper attire.

I wish the CDC had not deemed the second Ebola victim as having breached protocol without knowing what happened or what she was wearing.

Appropriate use of medical tape is for bandages. And possibly taping up CDC and hospital spokespeoples mouths.
This hospital in Texas seems to be a cluster muck from the start with no planning on this sort of infectious disease.

There is a small city in Ontario, Canada nowhere near the size of Dallas, and have a potential patient (waiting on test) who was part of the crew who took supplies from Canada to Africa, and they spent the summer planning how to deal with an Ebola patient, and trained staff and so on. From the time this patient walked into the hospital to being in isolation was 4 minutes.

We haven't had a case in Canada yet, but there have been a fair number of possible patients placed into isolation right away, not released until the test came back negative.

Seems Canada is doing a more proactive job and taking precautions to be on the safe side.
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Old Oct 15th 2014, 10:04 am
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Default Re: Patient in Dallas confirmed to have Ebola.

Second Texas health care worker tests positive for Ebola - National | Globalnews.ca

Another healthcare worker in Texas who treated Duncan has tested positive for Ebola and placed into isolation.


Seems to me that this hospital really botched this from the start, and I don't have much faith in the CDC at the moment either since they don't seem to know what's going on either.

I hope they can stop the spread before it infects more people.
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Old Oct 15th 2014, 12:19 pm
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Default Re: Patient in Dallas confirmed to have Ebola.

Erm, yeah. This shit is about get real.
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Old Oct 15th 2014, 1:01 pm
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Default Re: Patient in Dallas confirmed to have Ebola.

Originally Posted by Leslie
Erm, yeah. This shit is about get real.


Stay safe.
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Old Oct 15th 2014, 1:09 pm
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Default Re: Patient in Dallas confirmed to have Ebola.

Originally Posted by Jsmth321
Second Texas health care worker tests positive for Ebola - National | Globalnews.ca

Another healthcare worker in Texas who treated Duncan has tested positive for Ebola and placed into isolation.


Seems to me that this hospital really botched this from the start, and I don't have much faith in the CDC at the moment either since they don't seem to know what's going on either.

I hope they can stop the spread before it infects more people.
I saw that in the three countries in Africa with the largest numbers of cases, the rates at which an ebola victim passed on the disease has been estimated at 1:1.1 - 1.5 IIRC , (a different rate in each country). So every 10 victims pass the disease on to between 11 and 15 other people. The result is that the number of cases in those countries is doubling every 2-4 weeks!

Therefore it's not surprising that one victim in Dallas has infected two other people, except that medical workers in the US should have better protective clothing and equipment.

Last edited by Pulaski; Oct 15th 2014 at 1:50 pm.
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Old Oct 15th 2014, 1:46 pm
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Default Re: Patient in Dallas confirmed to have Ebola.

Originally Posted by Jerseygirl
Stay safe.
She'll be fine as long as she stays away from the bodily fluids....
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Old Oct 15th 2014, 1:53 pm
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Default Re: Patient in Dallas confirmed to have Ebola.

Originally Posted by Lion in Winter
She'll be fine as long as she stays away from the bodily fluids....
At the time, we all laughed at the communist plot to pollute America's precious bodily fluids. And for that plot now to come out of the dark continent is poignant.
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Old Oct 15th 2014, 2:45 pm
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Default Re: Patient in Dallas confirmed to have Ebola.

Originally Posted by Pulaski

Therefore it's not surprising that one victim in Dallas has infected two other people, except that medical workers in the US should have better protective clothing and equipment.
Was just listening to an interview with a Medecins Sans Frontier lady who was saying that they haven't had a single staff member infected in Africa in the current outbreak. She reckoned it was down to developing rigid protocols over years of dealing with Ebola in Africa, and wasn't surprised that staff without the benefit of that experience were becoming infected, even with the "right" equipment, because the equipment without the training is next to useless, and the training and experience doesn't happen overnight.
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Old Oct 15th 2014, 3:07 pm
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Default Re: Patient in Dallas confirmed to have Ebola.

Originally Posted by Yorkieabroad
Was just listening to an interview with a Medecins Sans Frontier lady who was saying that they haven't had a single staff member infected in Africa in the current outbreak. She reckoned it was down to developing rigid protocols over years of dealing with Ebola in Africa, and wasn't surprised that staff without the benefit of that experience were becoming infected, even with the "right" equipment, because the equipment without the training is next to useless, and the training and experience doesn't happen overnight.
Last night on PBS Frontline, there was a documentary "The Trouble With Antibiotics" about superbugs resistant to antibiotics where a person got a bacterial infection that couldn't be treated with antibiotics was sent to a hospital that specializes in the treatment of superbugs. The patient was put in an isolation ward and he was cured and released but later other patients became infected with the superbug. Then the infection spread throughout the hospital and about 15 patients got the infection with about a 50% mortality rate. They were considering closing down the hospital but eventually got it under control.

The Trouble with Antibiotics | FRONTLINE | PBS

So Ebola is not the first highly infectious disease that hospitals didn't know the proper protocol to handle the disease.
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