OT: life is tougher for bachelors in US
Dec 9th 2001, 2:58 pm
#1
Guest
Posts: n/a
The Wall Street Journal has an article on the Web today that confirms what people in
this group already knew: men who are 40 and older no longer have an easy time finding
a wife. Demographics have changed and in the age group around 40, there are now more
men than women. Men generally seek wives younger than they are and they aren't
finding them anymore. So, now we know why this group just gets busier and busier. If
you can't find them at home, look abroad!
Here is the link to the article:
http://www.msnbc.com/news/669526.asp
this group already knew: men who are 40 and older no longer have an easy time finding
a wife. Demographics have changed and in the age group around 40, there are now more
men than women. Men generally seek wives younger than they are and they aren't
finding them anymore. So, now we know why this group just gets busier and busier. If
you can't find them at home, look abroad!
Here is the link to the article:
http://www.msnbc.com/news/669526.asp
Dec 9th 2001, 3:33 pm
#2
Guest
Posts: n/a
My grand uncle, now 80 some years old, is absolutely amazed at the quality and
quantity of women available to him. Apparently, men start dying off quickly in
their late 60s and 70s, and by then it's like 4 women to every single (divorced,
widowed) man!
I've read that if you're in a nursing home, and still have a driver's license and
car, you can have a different date every single night of the year!
Don't fret, your time will come!
Paulgani
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quantity of women available to him. Apparently, men start dying off quickly in
their late 60s and 70s, and by then it's like 4 women to every single (divorced,
widowed) man!
I've read that if you're in a nursing home, and still have a driver's license and
car, you can have a different date every single night of the year!
Don't fret, your time will come!
Paulgani
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Dec 9th 2001, 3:35 pm
#3
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I suppose all the 45 year Mrs. Robinsons are seducing kids from their local colleges
!! If the current 45 year old male got a 25 year old Natasha from Olga's service in
Vladivostok, and if half of these marriages end in divorce within about 10 years,
then there will be plenty of Russian-Americans in the 35-ish age group for the future
40-45 yearolds. What a social service !!
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Take a random sample of this newsgroup's first posts in chain, you will find that
there is a significant number of women with alien liaisons awaiting.
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I suppose all the 45 year Mrs. Robinsons are seducing kids from their local colleges
!! If the current 45 year old male got a 25 year old Natasha from Olga's service in
Vladivostok, and if half of these marriages end in divorce within about 10 years,
then there will be plenty of Russian-Americans in the 35-ish age group for the future
40-45 yearolds. What a social service !!
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Take a random sample of this newsgroup's first posts in chain, you will find that
there is a significant number of women with alien liaisons awaiting.
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Dec 10th 2001, 4:25 pm
#4
pharrya's troublen strife
Joined: Mar 2001
Location: Baltimore, MD
Posts: 348
start looking for your own age...
Jim wrote:
>Men generally seek wives younger than they are and they aren't
finding them anymore.
Well, there you go- why not look for women yer own damn age?? I personally fell in love with and married a man 5 years younger than myself. (He's 31, I'm 36). He can appreciate a good thing!! ;-)
Why is it when you have some sort of May December romance and he's older no one bats an eye, but when the woman is older, its like " What does he see in her?". What a double standard.
I don't have much sympathy for the 40 something man who ignores all of the lovely, single, strong, 30-40-50 something women that *are* out there, so that he can skirt chase 24 year old girls.
Sorry.
>Men generally seek wives younger than they are and they aren't
finding them anymore.
Well, there you go- why not look for women yer own damn age?? I personally fell in love with and married a man 5 years younger than myself. (He's 31, I'm 36). He can appreciate a good thing!! ;-)
Why is it when you have some sort of May December romance and he's older no one bats an eye, but when the woman is older, its like " What does he see in her?". What a double standard.
I don't have much sympathy for the 40 something man who ignores all of the lovely, single, strong, 30-40-50 something women that *are* out there, so that he can skirt chase 24 year old girls.
Sorry.
Dec 10th 2001, 10:53 pm
#5
Just Joined
Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 20
I can only speak for myself when answering this " look for women your own damn age" statement. I am 45 and I do not want a 24 year old girl or even a 34 year old. I work very hard in the construction idustry and I am able to keep myself in very good physical shape. Most of the 35 and up women who are available in my area are playing host to an extra 30 or 40 pounds of excess fat. It is not an attractive feature in a woman (or man). I am sorry to say that if a woman doesn't take care of her body, I am not going to be attracted to her. I wish I was cause then meeting the right woman would be alot easier. As such I have chosen to look elsewhere and have found the right woman for me. I would guess that there are many men in my age group that feel the same way I do. Take a look in one of the dating sites that American women are featured in and then take a look at a Russian women web site. Which line would a older man want to stand in? The long one.
Dec 11th 2001, 5:39 am
#6
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ms_bhon wrote:
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I think it has something to do with nature and genes.
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I think it has something to do with nature and genes.
Dec 11th 2001, 12:44 pm
#8
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Posts: n/a
Just one question for you: What are you going to do when a few years down the line
this young, attractive, physically fit wife becomes overweight. Are you going to
divorce her and get back in line?
Rita
mothergoose <[email protected]>
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this young, attractive, physically fit wife becomes overweight. Are you going to
divorce her and get back in line?
Rita
mothergoose <[email protected]>
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Dec 11th 2001, 2:13 pm
#9
pharrya's troublen strife
Joined: Mar 2001
Location: Baltimore, MD
Posts: 348
whatever..
Andrew wrote:
>I think it has something to do with nature and genes.
Women in their 30's and 40's can stil mother children if that's what you mean.
I'm personally very glad to have found somebody from my own general age group. We have tonnes in common and can relate to each other so much better than the late 30's, early 40's something blokes that used to skirt chase me when I was in my early 20's.
As far as being physically fit- you make it sound as though every woman over the age of 35 is seriously overweight or something. Well, I don't know where you're hanging out, but mostly all of my friends in the 30-50 age range that are female, (and a number of them recently single), are all a buncha hotties.
I won't even try to point out how shallow mothergoose sounds. Rita, you're sooo right. Love is about what's inside. Sickness and health, richer or poorer and all that. If his idea of a life mate is just some young thing he has nothing in common with that will look good on his arm, than that's exactly what he'll get. I'll admit the initial attraction's gotta be there between two people and all, but he makes it sound as though there aren't any yoga- taking, smart, active, world-wise single women out there, and I know that's just not true.
Let's face it, not every guy can be a Tim Robbins (married to Susan Sarandon), most would rather be a Michael Douglass. But even I would say in both those cases, being movie stars and all, at least they both share lots of common interests with their wives, and there is geniune love involved.
To me real love is when my then boyfriend, now husband said to me "you could be covered in sores and wearing a potato sack and I would still love you" I feel the same way about him.
>I think it has something to do with nature and genes.
Women in their 30's and 40's can stil mother children if that's what you mean.
I'm personally very glad to have found somebody from my own general age group. We have tonnes in common and can relate to each other so much better than the late 30's, early 40's something blokes that used to skirt chase me when I was in my early 20's.
As far as being physically fit- you make it sound as though every woman over the age of 35 is seriously overweight or something. Well, I don't know where you're hanging out, but mostly all of my friends in the 30-50 age range that are female, (and a number of them recently single), are all a buncha hotties.
I won't even try to point out how shallow mothergoose sounds. Rita, you're sooo right. Love is about what's inside. Sickness and health, richer or poorer and all that. If his idea of a life mate is just some young thing he has nothing in common with that will look good on his arm, than that's exactly what he'll get. I'll admit the initial attraction's gotta be there between two people and all, but he makes it sound as though there aren't any yoga- taking, smart, active, world-wise single women out there, and I know that's just not true.
Let's face it, not every guy can be a Tim Robbins (married to Susan Sarandon), most would rather be a Michael Douglass. But even I would say in both those cases, being movie stars and all, at least they both share lots of common interests with their wives, and there is geniune love involved.
To me real love is when my then boyfriend, now husband said to me "you could be covered in sores and wearing a potato sack and I would still love you" I feel the same way about him.
Dec 11th 2001, 2:36 pm
#10
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Rita wrote:
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You're right Rita. It's much better to get a fat one to start with
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Actually, there's a good possibility that the woman will care about her body and
appearance and remain fit.
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You're right Rita. It's much better to get a fat one to start with
!Actually, there's a good possibility that the woman will care about her body and
appearance and remain fit.
Dec 11th 2001, 3:00 pm
#11
Just Joined
Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 20
My 39 year old (soon to be 40) fiancee will be overjoyed by your description of her. I guess I should have added that for me, this applies to initial attraction. My first wife gained about 30 pounds and I still felt she was the most sexy woman I knew. We broke up because of some drnking and drug problems(our 11 year old son lives with me, you figure out who had the problem). Should my soon to be wife put on some weight, I am sure that I will still find her to be as sexy as the day I meet her. Believe me when I say that I wish I did not have this "initial sexual attraction" requirement because then I would not have to look outside my own backyard to find to find a wife. I would guess that many men look at this issue the same as me. Or maybe I am sick in the head because I am sexually excited by a women's nice figure. I want to be sexually excited by my wife's figure the rest of my life regardless of what we look like 10 or 20 years down the road.
Dec 11th 2001, 4:11 pm
#12
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Posts: n/a
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ms_bhon wrote:
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[usenetquote2]>> I think it has something to do with nature and genes.[/usenetquote2]
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That's not what I said therefore that's not what I meant.
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Good for you.
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Kindly point out to me where I even implied as such!
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Where do you live? Can I stop by ?
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Why do you think that? Can not an attractive woman also have depth and personality? I
don't imply that all women over 35 years of age are fat so don't imply that all
attractive, younger women are empty.
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I did nothing of the sort. My observations however are that there are not many and
generally the ones who are doing this are married already (not all, but most).
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When I said "nature and genes" I was talking more about the urge to procreate than
about love. and devotion. Although they often go hand in hand and ideally that's what
the human race strives for they are not necessary mutual. IOW, there's a difference
in that either can exist devoid of the other.
Nature programs both sexes. It programs the man to seek out potential mates with good
chance of successful procreation. It programs the woman to seek out potential mates
that will protect and provide for the nest. IMHO to fight nature's programming is
often foolish and often futile.
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<html> <head> </head> <body> ms_bhon wrote:<br> <br> <blockquote type="cite">I think
it has something to do with nature and genes.<br> </blockquote> <!---->Women in their
30's and 40's can stil mother children if that's what you mean.</blockquote> That's
not what I said therefore that's not what I meant.<br> <blockquote type="cite"
cite="mid:[email protected]">I'm personally very glad to have found
somebody from my own general age group. We have tonnes in common and can relate to
each other so much better than the late 30's, early 40's something blokes that used
to skirt chase me when I was in my early 20's.</blockquote> Good for you.<br>
<blockquote type="cite" cite="mid:[email protected]">As far as being
physically fit- you make it sound as though every woman over the age of 35 is
seriously overweight or something. </blockquote> Kindly point out to me where I even
implied as such!<br> <blockquote type="cite"
cite="mid:[email protected]">Well, I don't know where you're hanging out,
but mostly all of my friends in the 30-50 age range that are female, (and a number of
them recently single), are all a buncha hotties.</blockquote> Where do you live? Can
I stop by <span -moz-smiley="s1"><span> </span></span> ?<br> <blockquote
type="cite" cite="mid:[email protected]"> I won't even try to point out
how shallow mothergoose sounds. Rita, you're sooo right. Love is about what's inside.
Sickness and health, richer or poorer and all that. If his idea of a life mate is
just some young thing he has nothing in common with that will look good on his arm,
than that's exactly what he'll get. </blockquote> Why do you think that? Can not an
attractive woman also have depth and personality? I don't imply that all women over
35 years of age are fat so don't imply that all attractive, younger women are
empty.<br> <blockquote type="cite" cite="mid:[email protected]"> I'll
admit the initial attraction's gotta be there between two people and all, but he
makes it sound as though there aren't any yoga- taking, smart, active, world-wise
single women out there, and I know that's just not true. </blockquote> I did nothing
of the sort. My observations however are that there are not many and generally the
ones who are doing this are married already (not all, but most).<br> <blockquote
type="cite" cite="mid:[email protected]"> Let's face it, not every guy can
be a Tim Robbins (married to Susan Sarandon), most would rather be a Michael
Douglass. But even I would say in both those cases, being movie stars and all, at
least they both share lots of common interests with their wives, and there is geniune
love involved. To me real love is when my then boyfriend, now husband said to me "you
could be covered in sores and wearing a potato sack and I would still love you" I
feel the same way about him.</blockquote> When I said "nature and genes" I was
talking more about the urge to procreate than about love. and devotion. Although they
often go hand in hand and ideally that's what the human race strives for they are not
necessary mutual. IOW, there's a difference in that either can exist devoid of the
other.<br> <br> Nature programs both sexes. It programs the man to seek out potential
mates with good chance of successful procreation. It programs the woman to seek out
potential mates that will protect and provide for the nest. IMHO to fight nature's
programming is often foolish and often futile.<br> <blockquote type="cite"
cite="mid:[email protected]"></blockquote> <br> </body> </html>
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ms_bhon wrote:
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[usenetquote2]>> I think it has something to do with nature and genes.[/usenetquote2]
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That's not what I said therefore that's not what I meant.
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Good for you.
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Kindly point out to me where I even implied as such!
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Where do you live? Can I stop by
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Why do you think that? Can not an attractive woman also have depth and personality? I
don't imply that all women over 35 years of age are fat so don't imply that all
attractive, younger women are empty.
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I did nothing of the sort. My observations however are that there are not many and
generally the ones who are doing this are married already (not all, but most).
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When I said "nature and genes" I was talking more about the urge to procreate than
about love. and devotion. Although they often go hand in hand and ideally that's what
the human race strives for they are not necessary mutual. IOW, there's a difference
in that either can exist devoid of the other.
Nature programs both sexes. It programs the man to seek out potential mates with good
chance of successful procreation. It programs the woman to seek out potential mates
that will protect and provide for the nest. IMHO to fight nature's programming is
often foolish and often futile.
--------------050600000409050003050605
<html> <head> </head> <body> ms_bhon wrote:<br> <br> <blockquote type="cite">I think
it has something to do with nature and genes.<br> </blockquote> <!---->Women in their
30's and 40's can stil mother children if that's what you mean.</blockquote> That's
not what I said therefore that's not what I meant.<br> <blockquote type="cite"
cite="mid:[email protected]">I'm personally very glad to have found
somebody from my own general age group. We have tonnes in common and can relate to
each other so much better than the late 30's, early 40's something blokes that used
to skirt chase me when I was in my early 20's.</blockquote> Good for you.<br>
<blockquote type="cite" cite="mid:[email protected]">As far as being
physically fit- you make it sound as though every woman over the age of 35 is
seriously overweight or something. </blockquote> Kindly point out to me where I even
implied as such!<br> <blockquote type="cite"
cite="mid:[email protected]">Well, I don't know where you're hanging out,
but mostly all of my friends in the 30-50 age range that are female, (and a number of
them recently single), are all a buncha hotties.</blockquote> Where do you live? Can
I stop by <span -moz-smiley="s1"><span>
</span></span> ?<br> <blockquotetype="cite" cite="mid:[email protected]"> I won't even try to point out
how shallow mothergoose sounds. Rita, you're sooo right. Love is about what's inside.
Sickness and health, richer or poorer and all that. If his idea of a life mate is
just some young thing he has nothing in common with that will look good on his arm,
than that's exactly what he'll get. </blockquote> Why do you think that? Can not an
attractive woman also have depth and personality? I don't imply that all women over
35 years of age are fat so don't imply that all attractive, younger women are
empty.<br> <blockquote type="cite" cite="mid:[email protected]"> I'll
admit the initial attraction's gotta be there between two people and all, but he
makes it sound as though there aren't any yoga- taking, smart, active, world-wise
single women out there, and I know that's just not true. </blockquote> I did nothing
of the sort. My observations however are that there are not many and generally the
ones who are doing this are married already (not all, but most).<br> <blockquote
type="cite" cite="mid:[email protected]"> Let's face it, not every guy can
be a Tim Robbins (married to Susan Sarandon), most would rather be a Michael
Douglass. But even I would say in both those cases, being movie stars and all, at
least they both share lots of common interests with their wives, and there is geniune
love involved. To me real love is when my then boyfriend, now husband said to me "you
could be covered in sores and wearing a potato sack and I would still love you" I
feel the same way about him.</blockquote> When I said "nature and genes" I was
talking more about the urge to procreate than about love. and devotion. Although they
often go hand in hand and ideally that's what the human race strives for they are not
necessary mutual. IOW, there's a difference in that either can exist devoid of the
other.<br> <br> Nature programs both sexes. It programs the man to seek out potential
mates with good chance of successful procreation. It programs the woman to seek out
potential mates that will protect and provide for the nest. IMHO to fight nature's
programming is often foolish and often futile.<br> <blockquote type="cite"
cite="mid:[email protected]"></blockquote> <br> </body> </html>
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Dec 11th 2001, 5:59 pm
#13
pharrya's troublen strife
Joined: Mar 2001
Location: Baltimore, MD
Posts: 348
sorry
Andrew-
Sorry, I sort of lumped my reply to both you and mothergoose together. I should have addressed both of them seperately.
As far as where I live, its a medium-sized east coast city. I can understand your complaint about all of the "good ones" being taken. That's exactly how I felt about available guys, up until two years ago, at age 34, when I met the man who's now my husband.
But I suppose that's part of my point...until we found each other and connected, I might have been considered one of those women I speak about.
But here's the deal- obviously he's from another country or I wouldn't be in this newsgroup. I'm not necessarily saying one might find their match in their hometown- its a great big, small world out there and we have progressed beyond the cave in many ways. There's the internet for one, and cheap foreign travel. Women no longer need to seek "a provider" because most of us can provide for ourselves.
I tend to think, at least what most western women want out of a marriage is an equal partnership built on love, trust, passion, respect, common intrests, intellectual stimulation (at least some of the time ;-) ), friendship, and partnership.
I did not mean to imply all younger women are empty. I have a number of very close female friends in their 20's who are very cool, smart and deep, I just think for a 40 something man to narrow their field for possible mates to *only* women 20 years younger than them, they are missing a wonderful opportunity to connect with women of their own generation. People meet and fall in love in all ages. My own brother's wife is 12 years younger than him, and I love and respect her very much and the two of them are like peas in a pod.... but its not like mothergoose would imply that he is only looking for young, fit 20-somethings, that my brother purposely set out to go find himself a young woman. My other 20-something friends all date either 20 or 30 something dudes. My brother only just turned 40 this year, and he and his now wife have been together like 5 years.
One never knows when or where they'll meet their "soulmate", what age or nationality or religion or race they'll be. Common interests, attraction and values can be shared across all of these boundaries.
Sorry, I sort of lumped my reply to both you and mothergoose together. I should have addressed both of them seperately.
As far as where I live, its a medium-sized east coast city. I can understand your complaint about all of the "good ones" being taken. That's exactly how I felt about available guys, up until two years ago, at age 34, when I met the man who's now my husband.
But I suppose that's part of my point...until we found each other and connected, I might have been considered one of those women I speak about.
But here's the deal- obviously he's from another country or I wouldn't be in this newsgroup. I'm not necessarily saying one might find their match in their hometown- its a great big, small world out there and we have progressed beyond the cave in many ways. There's the internet for one, and cheap foreign travel. Women no longer need to seek "a provider" because most of us can provide for ourselves.
I tend to think, at least what most western women want out of a marriage is an equal partnership built on love, trust, passion, respect, common intrests, intellectual stimulation (at least some of the time ;-) ), friendship, and partnership.
I did not mean to imply all younger women are empty. I have a number of very close female friends in their 20's who are very cool, smart and deep, I just think for a 40 something man to narrow their field for possible mates to *only* women 20 years younger than them, they are missing a wonderful opportunity to connect with women of their own generation. People meet and fall in love in all ages. My own brother's wife is 12 years younger than him, and I love and respect her very much and the two of them are like peas in a pod.... but its not like mothergoose would imply that he is only looking for young, fit 20-somethings, that my brother purposely set out to go find himself a young woman. My other 20-something friends all date either 20 or 30 something dudes. My brother only just turned 40 this year, and he and his now wife have been together like 5 years.
One never knows when or where they'll meet their "soulmate", what age or nationality or religion or race they'll be. Common interests, attraction and values can be shared across all of these boundaries.
Dec 11th 2001, 7:32 pm
#14
Guest
Posts: n/a
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ms_bhon wrote:
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Yes but my point is that we still have natural instincts that seem to me to be large
motivational factors behind our wants and desires.
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Yes I figured that but that's how your argument appeared to me so I pointed it out in
an effort to make you think a little bit about it.
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I don't' think that men necessarily limit their field to only women 20 years younger
than them. However, all things equal, given the choice of an attractive young woman
or an unattractive older women, most guys, being largely visually focused and with
those instinctual, primeval forces controlling their decisions, will readily choose
the young, attractive woman.
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Maybe your brother did purposely set out to find a young woman subconsciously.
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<html> <head> </head> <body> ms_bhon wrote:<br> <blockquote type="cite"
cite="mid:[email protected]">I'm not necessarily saying one might find
their match in their hometown- its a great big, small world out there and we have
progressed beyond the cave in many ways. </blockquote> Yes but my point is that we
still have natural instincts that seem to me to be large motivational factors behind
our wants and desires.<br> <blockquote type="cite"
cite="mid:[email protected]">I did not mean to imply all younger women are
empty. </blockquote> Yes I figured that but that's how your argument appeared to me
so I pointed it out in an effort to make you think a little bit about it.<br>
<blockquote type="cite" cite="mid:[email protected]">I have a number of
very close female friends in their 20's who are very cool, smart and deep, I just
think for a 40 something man to narrow their field for possible mates to *only* women
20 years younger than them, they are missing a wonderful opportunity to connect with
women of their own<br> generation. </blockquote> I don't' think that men necessarily
limit their field to <b>only</b> women 20 years younger than them. However, all
things equal, given the choice of an attractive young woman or an unattractive older
women, most guys, being largely visually focused and with those instinctual, primeval
forces controlling their decisions, will readily choose the young, attractive
woman.<br> <blockquote type="cite" cite="mid:[email protected]">People
meet and fall in love in all ages. My own brother's wife is 12 years younger than
him, and I love and respect her very much and the two of them are like peas in a
pod.... but its not like<br> mothergoose would imply that he is only looking for
young, fit 20-somethings, that my brother purposely set out to go find himself a
young woman. </blockquote> Maybe your brother did purposely set out to find a young
woman subconsciously.<br> <br> </body> </html>
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ms_bhon wrote:
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Yes but my point is that we still have natural instincts that seem to me to be large
motivational factors behind our wants and desires.
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Yes I figured that but that's how your argument appeared to me so I pointed it out in
an effort to make you think a little bit about it.
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I don't' think that men necessarily limit their field to only women 20 years younger
than them. However, all things equal, given the choice of an attractive young woman
or an unattractive older women, most guys, being largely visually focused and with
those instinctual, primeval forces controlling their decisions, will readily choose
the young, attractive woman.
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Maybe your brother did purposely set out to find a young woman subconsciously.
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<html> <head> </head> <body> ms_bhon wrote:<br> <blockquote type="cite"
cite="mid:[email protected]">I'm not necessarily saying one might find
their match in their hometown- its a great big, small world out there and we have
progressed beyond the cave in many ways. </blockquote> Yes but my point is that we
still have natural instincts that seem to me to be large motivational factors behind
our wants and desires.<br> <blockquote type="cite"
cite="mid:[email protected]">I did not mean to imply all younger women are
empty. </blockquote> Yes I figured that but that's how your argument appeared to me
so I pointed it out in an effort to make you think a little bit about it.<br>
<blockquote type="cite" cite="mid:[email protected]">I have a number of
very close female friends in their 20's who are very cool, smart and deep, I just
think for a 40 something man to narrow their field for possible mates to *only* women
20 years younger than them, they are missing a wonderful opportunity to connect with
women of their own<br> generation. </blockquote> I don't' think that men necessarily
limit their field to <b>only</b> women 20 years younger than them. However, all
things equal, given the choice of an attractive young woman or an unattractive older
women, most guys, being largely visually focused and with those instinctual, primeval
forces controlling their decisions, will readily choose the young, attractive
woman.<br> <blockquote type="cite" cite="mid:[email protected]">People
meet and fall in love in all ages. My own brother's wife is 12 years younger than
him, and I love and respect her very much and the two of them are like peas in a
pod.... but its not like<br> mothergoose would imply that he is only looking for
young, fit 20-somethings, that my brother purposely set out to go find himself a
young woman. </blockquote> Maybe your brother did purposely set out to find a young
woman subconsciously.<br> <br> </body> </html>
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Dec 11th 2001, 8:07 pm
#15
Just Joined
Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 20
ms bhon,I really think you should re-read my post. I can not seem to locate where I said I was looking for a 20 something little girl. I at a lost to find where I implied this. If you could direct me I would be most thankful.