Pom_Chch

I always thought giving a tip should be reserved for workers who have done well, not to give out regardless of service to help bump up the pay packet because their employer doesn't pay them well enough.

I remember going to a restaurant in London a while ago. The service was terrible - moody waiter, slow, cold food and not very attentive staff. To my surprise a 12.5% "tip" had been added on to the bill. I asked them to remove it and paid no tip, not with that level of poor service. Sure, a waiter may work hard to get extra tips but that works the other way around too - shoddy service with the expectation of an inevitable tip at the end can happen. I wonder how many people either a) don't notice a charge has been added to the bill or b) paid up and shut up. I'm not sure how often that happens in the States, but it seemed quite common in London last time I was there.

Michael

I guess the only compromise and fair way that we can come to is that tipping should be banned and anyone that tips or receives tips should be heavily fined and good/outstanding service is the responsibility of the restaurant owners and is expected.

That should solve all the problems.

We should also include farm hands that the farmer must also pay full minimum wage whether the farm hand picks one box of food per day or 100.

scrubbedexpat091

Nobody said banning tipping, however it should not be customer subsidizing the wages of the servers, tipping should be extra something for providing excellent service, and optional, not expected, and not allowed to be used to permit employers to pay less.

Why should the customer subsidize the wages of servers so the employer can pay less?

California and other states still have restaurants despite having servers making a base wage that is no lower the the state min. wage. I also find prices tend to be cheaper in California as well.

scrubbedexpat099

Who pays the wages if not customers?

Michael

Then I guess tipping should never occur at a bar since all the bar tender is doing is poring you a drink.

Since people go to a restaurant to get well prepared tasty food and good/fast service, that should be considered normal so a tip should seldom occur.

When someone goes to a hair dresser, they are going to get their hair cut and dyed the way they want it done so if that is what is done, there shouldn't be a tip.

So maybe we agree. Tips should only occur maybe 1 in a 1,000 times instead of the current nearly 100%.

Michael

In most of Europe, a service charge of 15-20% is included in the price of the food. That means the restaurant is forcing it's patrons to pay 15-20% extra to pay their staff whether the service is good or bad.

How that service charge is divided up, that varies from country to country and restaurant to restaurant. In fact it may be possible that 100% of the service charge is kept by the owner and the staff is paid a fixed salary.

Is that fair that patrons may possibly be forced to tip the owner?

Michael

One of my son's likes to go to fairly expensive restaurants where we have a decent bottle of wine and he always has expensive after dinner drinks.

When he comes to see me, I always pay and the bill is anywhere between $200 and $400. At 15% tip that is $30 to $60 for just a table of two. I doubt those waiters would like to work for $18 per hour allowing the owner to pocket the tip if the tip was included in the bill.

I wonder if some of the owners that are converting to no tip restaurants think that waiters are paid too much and this is a way to try to reduce their salary so that the owner will profit more.

scrubbedexpat091

Tips are directly providing the wage and letting the employer off the hook on providing an appropriate wage to line the pockets of the owner or in the case of a chain the pockets of the corporation.

Generally in most industries customers are only indirectly providing wages by buying a product or service and not expected to directly contribute to the employees wages like we do for servers.


Tipping is fine to show how you appreciate good service, but it should not be the wage of the person, just something extra for providing a good service the person feels deserves a tip.

Automatically tipping makes no sense, I don't see a need to tip a bartender for example, they are not doing anything spectacular, and its not my problem if the employer is paying a piss poor wage.

I'll tip when the service is good, but I won't tip just for the sake of tipping because the employer is too cheap to provide an adequate wage.


I grew up in North America and the tipping culture is annoying, I rarely go out anywhere where tipping is the norm, but unless the service is great which it never is, really the price range of places we can afford are not better service wise then a fast food place, and servers are rarely seen, they seem to vanish once they take the order, so I won't tip just because it's expected, I see no point to it.

I also don't tip the hair people, the 35 they charge for the haircut is enough in my view.

Its silly the people deemed worthy of tips and those not worthy of tips, why is a server deserving of tips, but not the fast food worker, or cashier at the store?

All all providing a service.

I don't make enough to be expected to subsidize a servers wage because owners want cheap labor.

Pulaski

Well that is just stupid. The server is a necessary part of buying a meal and so the cost of paying the serving staff has to be covered somehow. Adding a mandatory service charge makes no more sense for a restaurant than a grocery or department store adding a mark-up for labour costs. ...... That said many higher cost service businesses make a separate charge for labour - such as licensed building trades and car repair shops, so I guess it depends on what is customary for the industry.

Anian

People who work on checkouts get all the same hassles but with no chance of a tip.

I have no idea why I am supposed to tip a few dollars more if I buy the expensive menu item instead of the cheap one - the amount of work done by the waiter is the same. Employment laws in this country are pretty bad already, if a waiter is underperforming then you can just sack them, you aren't forced to keep them - you don't need to force them to work hard to get bigger tips with the onus on the customer.

Pom_Chch

I agree with what's being said above. Why on earth would I tip a bar tender if all they do is grab a beer out the fridge, open it and hand it to me. What, so I'm expected to top up the waiters wages for completing a simple task because his /her employer pays them a poor wage? Hmmmm.

hungryhorace

Indeed. Why is it that I'm expected to tip a server but not the person that packs my shopping bags each time?

RoadWarriorFromLP

There's no free lunch. The price will be higher if the service is included. You save nothing by having the service included, and in the example that started the thread, the cost will actually be higher than it would have been otherwise.

But with the tipping system, the workers have more of an incentive to do a better job, while their bosses have more of an incentive to have enough people on duty. Better service for the same cost is a better deal for the customer.

scrubbedexpat091

Labor is a cost of doing business and prices of the product or service should be built into the prices on the menu.

The whole surcharge thing on top of the prices for a product or service is just unacceptable.

lansbury

Either way the customers pays. One way they can at least decide how much to add on, the other way the business decides the total of what you will pay.