Michael

Typically bar tenders are also tipped in the US and often it is about $1 per drink. If a bar tender serves 20 drinks per hour to people at the bar, that's $20. If it is a busy night where the place is crowded and people are three deep to the bar, a bar tender can possibly make $100 or more per hour.

I believe there is a regular on BE that works a bar/restaurant in NYC and I haven't heard any complaints and if I remember correctly, he/she enjoys the job.

Pom_Chch

That's fine BEVS if that is your experience. My experience is that I have never once tipped in NZ, not because I'm a tight arse, but simply because it is not expected. I agree with you in the fact that I have wrongly assumed that there is no tipping at all. I've lived and travelled in NZ extensively and never once have I tipped as I haven't been asked to, so I was going on my experience. I have also worked in hospitality in NZ and tips were never part of what we did. Never has 10% been added to a bill nor any money left on the table. Sometimes I've seen a jar with some change in at the till, but that would be about it. Nothing like the UK where it's either added to the bill or change is left on the table with the receipt. I will dispute that the NZ way of tipping is just like the UK. It definitely is not and I'm not sure how you've arrived at that conclusion. But if that is your experience or opinion then so be it.

As for $15/hour, I wasn't really attempting to discuss wages or hours of work in NZ . Just tipping, which is what this thread was about.

scrubbedexpat091

They are not guaranteed the normal min. wage in all states, some states servers work almost entirely for tips since serving wages are so low.

U.S. Department of Labor - Wage & Hour Divisions (WHD) - Minimum Wages for Tipped Employees


Only 7 states require servers to be paid full min. wage.

California
Oregon
Washington
Nevada
Montana
Alaska
Minnesota

And one territory

Guam


The rest either follow federal min. serving wage or have their own serving wage higher then the feds but lower then full min. wage.


Servers at the place located in the hotel makes their servers puts their tips into a pool and then they split evenly between wait staff and bussing staff, and whatever the name of the person who brings the food out is called since the servers there don't bring out the food, just the drinks.

My wife used to wait tables, being a small town though, the tips suck, and are not worth the BS working in a food service place has.

Michael

That seems to be a relatively moot point since if a waiter doesn't make at least minimum wage, they'll likely go work for a fast food restaurant which pays at least minimum wage.

scrubbedexpat091

States with a low servers wage still have restaurants, and still have servers making that low useless per hour wage.

Not sure how it's a moot point when it exists in nearly every state.

Chances are a server with tips in a serving wage state can make more then min.wage with tips included, but they are not guaranteed to, its a risk each shift they work.

Michael

Just because there isn't a law to require a the same minimum wage for all, that doesn't mean that people aren't making at least the full minimum wage. Germany, Switzerland, and the Nordic countries plus very socialist Denmark don't have a minimum wage law for all workers but pay overall is better in those countries than France which has a fairly high minimum wage for all workers.

On the other hand, the US is considered to have a minimum wage defined for all workers referred to as a universal minimum wage.

RoadWarriorFromLP

I've traveled quite a bit (including in NZ, where I never tipped) and it's hard to beat the US for efficient restaurant service.

Tipping is also better for the restaurant owner because the servers effectively act as commissioned salespeople They are motivated to encourage customers to buy more because they get to keep a portion of the upsell.

Tipping also encourages higher staffing levels, which also helps customer service. A restaurant owner would naturally be inclined to respond to higher labor costs by reducing the workforce.

scrubbedexpat091

Where a server isn't required to be paid full-min wage, the food service industry generally will not pay more then is required.

You'd be surprised how many servers don't make the normal min.wage from their employer, they make it through tips.

There are only 7 states where a server is guaranteed to make at least the going min. wage.


The US may have a universal federal min. wage, but the min. wage amount varies state to state since some have decided the federal wage is too low.

Michael

I agree and in many cases I think that may be fair. If all waiters were required to make minimum wage from their employer, small town USA waiters may possibly be making more with tips than the average person in that town and then the only restaurant in the town may have to close down since locals can't afford to eat there.

There is not an unlimited supply of money to pay everyone in that town more so they can afford to eat at the restaurant and allow it to be profitable. As an example, I'm from a small rural village in Minnesota (Kelly Lake) and Minnesota requires waiters to be paid full minimum wage by the employer. We had a restaurant at one time but maybe the costs were too high to keep it open with the limited local traffic since the employer had to pay full minimum wage. If the employer was only required to pay minimum wage when including tips, there may possibly be one or more jobs for some teenager or part time local housewife to fill.

I consider myself left of center but when I watch Ed Schultz on MSNBC preaching how unfair certain union members are being treated who make a very good salary plus very good benefits, I get a little upset since those employees are usually making significantly above median salary. It would be nice to pay everyone $60,000 per year or more but that would not make everyone richer.

scrubbedexpat091

If a restaurant can't afford to pay min. wage then they need to run it without employees, companies who can only sustain themselves by relying on low wages, well no sympathy from me for the owner.

Labor costs are part of being in business, if your business doesn't bring in the revenue needed to pay labor, then the business is flawed or maybe better to be family run without employees.

Michael

I guess you are saying that if everyone in a small village is making minimum wage, waiters should make minimum wage plus tips which could possibly be double what everyone else is making and if people can't afford that, the restaurant should close putting the waiters out of work.

You also appear to be saying that Germany, Switzerland, and the Nordic countries are also doing it wrong by not covering everyone by minimum wage laws.

lansbury

If I was being paid below minimum wage but tips made it up to $30, I don't think I would be happy being paid $18 and no tips. It sounds to me as if the guy in Portland is saying that if he paid servers $30 and paid the rest over minimum the market wouldn't stand the prices he would have to charge. But that customers are willingly to pay a smaller total amount with a tip that pays servers $30 and the rest minimum.

The early non tipping restaurants stand to get burned unless servers are prepared to take less for a guaranteed salary. Once the majority become non tipping that will not be so much of a problem.

scrubbedexpat099

There are several other consequences.

Not sure what the tipped wage is in CO, about$5, anyway a half decent server will be on at least $20 even in a hole in the wall place.

I believe in most places that say do lunch and dinner, there is obviously a couple of dead hours in the Afternoon, and most employers just let that go, an opportunity to catch up, have a breather etc.

Pay somebody $18 an hour and you are doing split shifts sending people home if it is quiet etc. Need to be much more focused on hours.

petitefrancaise

Tipping was outlawed in France years ago - you might leave a euro or 2 if service is exceptionally good but otherwise nothing is left. This was done by the government who wanted to crack down on the undeclared cash economy which includes tips given to serving staff.

I always found waiting staff to be at best ok-ish in France but this had more to do with restaurants and cafes employing the absolute minimum level of staff due to employment law. I don't mind tipping here, the service is generally really good and I really woudn't want to experience he french level of service here.

scrubbedexpat091

Tipping should be optional for good service, not as a way for an employer to pay less money in wages by having the customer subsidize the wages of their employees.

If everyone in a town is paying min. wage, why should the restaurant owner get a break on wages?