Originally Posted by FlaviusAetius

This is what concerns me about the death of freedom of speech and assembly in this country, where the mere threat that left-wing thugs from anti-fa will create mayhem is sufficient for the mayor of Berkeley to call on the University to cancel addresses by Milo Yiannopolis, Ann Coulter and Ben Shapiro. This is the Left shutting down free speech and we need to hear the Democratic Party denounce and distance itself from antifa and the black blocs. Or are they the Party's tip of the spear?

From the SF Chronicle:

In the aftermath of a right-wing rally Sunday that ended with anarchists chasing attendees from a downtown park, Berkeley Mayor Jesse Arreguin urged UC Berkeley on Monday to cancel conservatives’ plans for a Free Speech Week next month to avoid making the city the center of more violent unrest.

“I’m very concerned about Milo Yiannopoulos and Ann Coulter and some of these other right-wing speakers coming to the Berkeley campus, because it’s just a target for black bloc to come out and commit mayhem on the Berkeley campus and have that potentially spill out on the street,” Arreguin said, referring to militants who have also been called anti-fascists or antifa.

Originally Posted by Boiler

So what message does that send out, riot and you get your way?

Originally Posted by Lion in Winter

People are free to say whatever they want without fear of reprisal by the state - the odd period of McCarthyism and police riots notwithstanding.

Freedom of speech does not imply that anyone can say anything on demand wherever and however they want - people and organizations are free to deny the use of their organization or space as a platform for the speech (within the bounds of the law), and still others can respond to what is being said. Nobody is compelled by freedom of speech to sit and listen quietly. Physically attacking people is another matter - until of course it becomes necessary (a few more physical uprisings in 1930s Germany would probably have been a good idea, no?).

So you can probably stop the spluttering now. We aren't going to the dogs any more than usual.

Originally Posted by FlaviusAetius

Your reading of the last years of the Weimar Republic's history and Germany's experience from 1933 to the advent of WWII (1930s Germany) is pathetic. You should revisit how the street wars between the Brown Shirts and the Reds caused a plurality of German voters to support the Nazis out of fear of the Communists. Are you seriously defending the right of antifa to physically attack whoever is expressing views that they disagree with?

Even Nancy Pelosi has "unequivocally condemned" antifa. So far, the only major Democratic politician to do so, and good for her. https://www.washingtonpost.com/opini...mepage%2Fstory

Interesting, especially if that means that Trump really was right to condemn "both sides" for the violence in Charlottesville.

Originally Posted by Anian

It's how the rightwing defend the indefensible these days - blame those resisting fascism for getting killed by fascists.

It really just shows that they know that they are wrong.

Originally Posted by Leslie

It is funny to see the same people who take so much pleasure in ridiculing the left as snowflakes and crybabies to be so completely terrified when the left gets a little aggressive.

The Crying Nazi really is a metaphor for this whole thing.

Originally Posted by Lion in Winter

1. Did you actually read my post? Because it appears not, from the quantity of straw men you have managed to cram into a few lines in your response.

2. Are you seriously proposing to lay the blame for the rise of Naziism on the shoulders of "the Reds"?

Originally Posted by SultanOfSwing

Why even bring 'the Reds' into it anyway? Drum up some fear?

Antifa aren't communists, they're anarchists. They don't speak for the entirety of the left anymore than white supremacists and fascists speak for the entirety of the right. Don't get me wrong, I don't condone violence at all, but this particular situation shouldn't be distilled into a left vs right 'our side is better' soundbite. It's fascists vs absolutely everyone else. Anarchist, Communist, neo-liberal, conservative - we're all anti-fascist. Right? Am I off the mark here?

It's not about free speech, that is not under threat irrespective of how many Daily Mail articles you read. Honestly it's better the fascists are protected under the First, because it gives them a platform to out themselves for the scum that they are.

Jesus though, that we're even having this discussion is enough to give you a nosebleed sometimes.

Originally Posted by Lion in Winter

"Absolutely everyone else."

Nail. Head.

Originally Posted by kimilseung

If it wasnt already apparent that tolerance of the intolerant, leads to a loss of tolerance, than Karl Popper words might act as a reminder, as he discusses the paradox of tolerance.