Going to be a hot night in Ferguson
#76
Banned
Joined: Feb 2011
Location: Mallorca
Posts: 19,367
Re: Going to be a hot night in Ferguson
I thought you were a libertarian and libertarians believe in the freedom to own guns without restrictions.
America has always been a culture of owning guns and in the foreseeable future, that won't change. In many rural area, 12 year olds are required to take gun safety courses with real guns and live ammunition.
If tomorrow a law was passed similar to the UK, 90% of Americans would be in jail and unless there was some sort of totalitarian state to take away the guns, Americans aren't going to give them up. Laws can be passed on the fringes like California's tough gun laws (some of the toughest in the US) that doesn't allow assault rifle sales and there is a 10 days waiting period for all guns sales including private sales and sales at gun shows but just about anyone in California can buy a gun.
America has always been a culture of owning guns and in the foreseeable future, that won't change. In many rural area, 12 year olds are required to take gun safety courses with real guns and live ammunition.
If tomorrow a law was passed similar to the UK, 90% of Americans would be in jail and unless there was some sort of totalitarian state to take away the guns, Americans aren't going to give them up. Laws can be passed on the fringes like California's tough gun laws (some of the toughest in the US) that doesn't allow assault rifle sales and there is a 10 days waiting period for all guns sales including private sales and sales at gun shows but just about anyone in California can buy a gun.
#77
I have a comma problem
Joined: Feb 2009
Location: Fox Lake, IL (from Carrickfergus NI)
Posts: 49,598
Re: Going to be a hot night in Ferguson
You're all making NRA ads pop up at the side of my page, by the way
#79
Account Closed
Thread Starter
Joined: Mar 2004
Posts: 2
Re: Going to be a hot night in Ferguson
Seemingly half of Police Officers shot are shot by blacks.
#82
I have a comma problem
Joined: Feb 2009
Location: Fox Lake, IL (from Carrickfergus NI)
Posts: 49,598
Re: Going to be a hot night in Ferguson
Usually I don't notice them, but that one was funny.
#83
Re: Going to be a hot night in Ferguson
On the other hand, in many cases, you are right, there is no reason why a taser couldn't be used. It certainly could have been in this case. In this case, the officer could also have hit back or tried to subdue Brown with non-lethal force. As I said earlier though, we're not police officers (well, some of us are, but that's beside the point); we don't know the training they undergo. Whether we like it or not, Officer Wilson was acting within the law.
An example. Two of our officers were called to a male with a very large knife. They get out of their cars having briefed over the radio on the way. One deploys with a bean bag gun, one with lethal force. As soon as they get out of their cars the man charges. The bean bag round is fired and has no effect. Lethal force is used. On the radio you hear them say on scene, from that comment until you hear the lethal shots being fired is 6 seconds. If only one officer had attended and chosen to try non lethal force first they would have been stabbed, is my guess. There was no time to fire the bean bag gun, drop that weapon and draw their firearm.
I know Brown didn't have a weapon but the officers assessment was that lethal force was he best option, and the Grand Jury having heard all the evidence haven't found that assessment to be legally flawed. In fact I read today that Officer Wilson said Brown put his hand inside his shirt towards his waistband. That movement in my cops mind tends to suggest a weapon, or the pretense of having a weapon.
Some time ago I went on a tactical firearms presentation with the local sheriffs department. Other members of the public were there, including my wife who some years previously had completed the reserve deputy sheriffs course. After the presentation we got to go on the range simulator and run scenarios. One was a guy standing at a partially open door with his hands hidden by the wall. My wife went first and was shouting at the guy show me you hands, show me you hands, he sort of moved and she shot him, still not seeing his hands. I was somewhat surprised my wife would shot someone like that without seeing a weapon. I went next and using my UK police training to deal with the incident also shouted at the guy to show his hands, only when he moved I didn't shoot because I still couldn't see his hands and could not determine if he was a threat or not. He shot me through the wall. Lesson. We as Brits cannot expect US police officers to act the same as UK ones, or judge them by UK standards. Their training is different and the laws allow them much freer use of lethal force than do the laws of the UK. After the scenario I asked what if the guy hadn't been armed, where would an officer stand who had acted as my wife did. The reply was it was a clean shoot. They were amazed when I said a UK officer in that position could reasonably expect to be facing a Court.
If the prosecutor does release all the evidence it will make for very interesting reading as it might well give an insight into what standing in Officer Wilson's shoes might have been like, and why he made the decisions he did.
#86
Re: Going to be a hot night in Ferguson
I just googled how many people are shot by police annually in the USA. Seems nobody is officially counting
How many police shootings a year? No one knows - The Washington Post
They are counting how many cops get killed. In 2012 it was 48. Unofficial numbers of how many civilians are killed by cops seem to hover around 750-1,000. Seems neglectful not to be counting the civilian numbers, no? And also appears that the cops are in less danger from civilians than civilians are from cops.
How many police shootings a year? No one knows - The Washington Post
They are counting how many cops get killed. In 2012 it was 48. Unofficial numbers of how many civilians are killed by cops seem to hover around 750-1,000. Seems neglectful not to be counting the civilian numbers, no? And also appears that the cops are in less danger from civilians than civilians are from cops.
#87
Account Closed
Thread Starter
Joined: Mar 2004
Posts: 2
Re: Going to be a hot night in Ferguson
All the testimony is available on line.
#88
Re: Going to be a hot night in Ferguson
How do you know a taser could have been used. In the split seconds the officer had to make an assessment he decided to use lethal force. What kind of taser was the officer carrying, was it one that needs some distance between the officer and the target to deploy, or one that works close to. Once he made the decision to use lethal force it isn't easy to re holster one weapon and draw and deploy the other. ......
Last edited by Pulaski; Nov 25th 2014 at 6:52 pm.