Florida shooting
Feb 19th 2018, 12:58 am
#361
Lost in BE Cyberspace
Joined: Nov 2011
Location: Somewhere between Vancouver & St Johns
Posts: 19,849
Re: Florida shooting
One thing I have learned in being in North America for 30 years but in the nicer country aka Canada.
Discussing gun laws with Americans and their 2nd Amendment rights is like arguing with an idiot. If you argue/rationally discuss the subject they will eventually drag you down to their level and then beat you with experience.
Kevlar backpack sales are soaring though quick hire some Americans and ramp up production then use these figures as part of the MAGA.
Carry on America as you normally do and do your impression of an Ostrich except for your head being buried in the sand its buried somewhere else.
Discussing gun laws with Americans and their 2nd Amendment rights is like arguing with an idiot. If you argue/rationally discuss the subject they will eventually drag you down to their level and then beat you with experience.
Kevlar backpack sales are soaring though quick hire some Americans and ramp up production then use these figures as part of the MAGA.
Carry on America as you normally do and do your impression of an Ostrich except for your head being buried in the sand its buried somewhere else.
Feb 19th 2018, 4:29 am
#362
Banned
Joined: Apr 2009
Location: SW Ontario
Posts: 19,879
Re: Florida shooting
I think it is, because Gun related deaths also include suicide and accidental deaths.
The sheer number of medical malpractice deaths vs. gun related should matter if deaths is what society is concerned about. In reality the media and anti-gun activists are most concerned about the power of the individual to effect drastic change. Our intelligentsia and a lot of the public simply do not want the average person to have access to the kind of power guns provide, they want individuals to be relatively powerless like Europeans.
The sheer number of medical malpractice deaths vs. gun related should matter if deaths is what society is concerned about. In reality the media and anti-gun activists are most concerned about the power of the individual to effect drastic change. Our intelligentsia and a lot of the public simply do not want the average person to have access to the kind of power guns provide, they want individuals to be relatively powerless like Europeans.
How far are we going to go in limiting an individual's freedom and liberty, do we support hate speech laws also, because after all they do influence a person? European countries have used the examples of Fascism and violence against certain communities for their argument in favor of Hate Speech laws. Europeans have developed a mindset similar to people in developing nations, wanting a controlled society where Free Speech and individual liberties are constrained, all in a bid to have communal harmony. This is very Orwellian and dystopian.
Mass shootings are still exceedingly rare, and just a tiny % of the annual gun related fatalities. America is a nation of 327 million people, so naturally you are going to hear about the occasional mass shooting. I do not think we should start infringing on rights because people die, that is a rationale used by authoritarian regimes to clamp down on the public's free will. Some people don't mind living in strict societies, as long as they feel safe, while other people choose not to give up freedom for a little security
Mass shootings are still exceedingly rare, and just a tiny % of the annual gun related fatalities. America is a nation of 327 million people, so naturally you are going to hear about the occasional mass shooting. I do not think we should start infringing on rights because people die, that is a rationale used by authoritarian regimes to clamp down on the public's free will. Some people don't mind living in strict societies, as long as they feel safe, while other people choose not to give up freedom for a little security
But that's exceedingly rare, right?
There were 346 mass shootings in the US in 2017
But that exceedingly rare, right?
383 mass shootings in 2016
333 mass shootings in 2015
271 mass shootings in 2014
That's a total of 1367 mass shootings in the past 5 years alone.
Still think it's exceeding rare?
Even ONE is too many... but you carry on with your liberty and freedoms - that's so much more important!
Last edited by Siouxie; Feb 19th 2018 at 4:42 am.
Feb 19th 2018, 7:48 am
#363
BE Enthusiast
Joined: Oct 2012
Posts: 677
Re: Florida shooting
My wife was horrified when she saw the most recent shooting.
We were actually looking at places around Boca Raton (so close to Parkland) to school our child around 6 months ago. It was a possible work move from the UK which we haven't taken up.
The school shootings is one of the main reasons we have stayed in the UK (I know the UK is not perfect but when you have children in school they are safer)
We were actually looking at places around Boca Raton (so close to Parkland) to school our child around 6 months ago. It was a possible work move from the UK which we haven't taken up.
The school shootings is one of the main reasons we have stayed in the UK (I know the UK is not perfect but when you have children in school they are safer)
Feb 19th 2018, 10:53 am
#364
BE Forum Addict
Joined: Mar 2015
Location: NC, USA (ex Yorkshire)
Posts: 4,375
Re: Florida shooting
My wife was horrified when she saw the most recent shooting.
We were actually looking at places around Boca Raton (so close to Parkland) to school our child around 6 months ago. It was a possible work move from the UK which we haven't taken up.
The school shootings is one of the main reasons we have stayed in the UK (I know the UK is not perfect but when you have children in school they are safer)
We were actually looking at places around Boca Raton (so close to Parkland) to school our child around 6 months ago. It was a possible work move from the UK which we haven't taken up.
The school shootings is one of the main reasons we have stayed in the UK (I know the UK is not perfect but when you have children in school they are safer)
Feb 19th 2018, 11:32 am
#365
Yo
Joined: Nov 2012
Location: UK
Posts: 24,474
Re: Florida shooting
Tbh, it isn't even control. It's self-control. Some people were a bit grudging about giving up their old pistols, but the whole point of an advanced and mature democracy is that the government rules by the consent of the governed for the common good. The common good is not a well-understood or well-received idea here.
Yes, I was being facetious. It gets my goat a bit when Americans (some) start moralizing on Europe being somehow controlled and less advances than the USA.
Feb 19th 2018, 11:44 am
#366
Yo
Joined: Nov 2012
Location: UK
Posts: 24,474
Re: Florida shooting
That might be the whole problem with the US, this delusion that only they are free, and that every single issue has to be viewed through the lens of freedom. Obviously, 'freedom' was historically a fundamental principle in rejecting British rule, but as a principle it had a place and time. Slaves were not free for centuries; jails are restrict the freedom of citizens for many trivial offences; corporate America has a very dim view of free time. So many contradictions. Freedom is not so much a concept in the US as a religion, but it appears to be a flawed concept, as there is no such thing as absolute freedom. Perhaps American thinks need to start pondering a more mature workable principle for the country.
Feb 19th 2018, 12:48 pm
#367
Often not so civil...
Joined: Apr 2010
Location: The Boonies, GA
Posts: 9,561
Re: Florida shooting
Freedom is not so much a concept in the US as a religion, but it appears to be a flawed concept, as there is no such thing as absolute freedom. Perhaps American thinks need to start pondering a more mature workable principle for the country.
Feb 19th 2018, 12:53 pm
#368
BE Forum Addict
Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 4,641
Re: Florida shooting
Gun Violence Archive lists gun deaths excluding suicides. They include tables, maps and breakdown of incidences.
Oh dear. There have been 34 mass shootings in the US this year alone.
But that's exceedingly rare, right?
There were 346 mass shootings in the US in 2017
But that exceedingly rare, right?
383 mass shootings in 2016
333 mass shootings in 2015
271 mass shootings in 2014
That's a total of 1367 mass shootings in the past 5 years alone.
Still think it's exceeding rare?
Even ONE is too many... but you carry on with your liberty and freedoms - that's so much more important!
Oh dear. There have been 34 mass shootings in the US this year alone.
But that's exceedingly rare, right?
There were 346 mass shootings in the US in 2017
But that exceedingly rare, right?
383 mass shootings in 2016
333 mass shootings in 2015
271 mass shootings in 2014
That's a total of 1367 mass shootings in the past 5 years alone.
Still think it's exceeding rare?
Even ONE is too many... but you carry on with your liberty and freedoms - that's so much more important!
What is the definition of a "mass shooting". Some people use a very broad definition of what is a mass shooting, which is what your link is doing. Your link includes shootings where no one died, but injures were sustained. It includes shootings that are spur of the moment action between individuals or groups in clubs, hotels, concerts and other public venues. The website you linked is misleading because of how broad it defines a mass shooting.
Mass Shootings | Gun Violence Archive
Here is how the government defines a mass shooting
The United States' Congressional Research Service acknowledges that there is not a broadly accepted definition, and defines a "public mass shooting"[3] as one in which four or more people selected indiscriminately, not including the perpetrator, are killed, echoing the FBI definition[4][5] of the term "mass murder"
The perception of a mass for the average person are incidents like : Vegas, Orlando nightclub, Columbine, Virginia Tech, Sandy Hook, the recent Fl school shooting etc..
Feb 19th 2018, 1:00 pm
#369
BE Forum Addict
Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 4,641
Re: Florida shooting
I don’t see how banning mass murdering weapons infringenges on anyone freedom or liberty. There is literally no need for anyone to own these weapons, not one single reason. Even if it did, why would their right to freedom and liberty be greater than someone’s right not to be murdered?
Surely the right of life outweighs the right to owning an automatic weapon, and if you don’t believe that to be true then you have serious issues.
Surely the right of life outweighs the right to owning an automatic weapon, and if you don’t believe that to be true then you have serious issues.
Why own an AR-15 style rifle? Well why own anything that is not purely utilitarian; why own a car with 500 horsepower when 120hp is good enough. Why not ban all cars with more than 120 horsepower, as that would cut down on speeding and unnecessary deaths. Why not ban alcohol as that would cut down on drunk driving.
Feb 19th 2018, 1:15 pm
#370
Sad old Crinkly Member
Joined: Oct 2003
Location: Tallahassee, Florida
Posts: 807
Re: Florida shooting
Why should the rights of law abiding gun owners, who are the vast majority of gun owners, be infringed upon because a tiny few abuse the right.
Why own an AR-15 style rifle? Well why own anything that is not purely utilitarian; why own a car with 500 horsepower when 120hp is good enough. Why not ban all cars with more than 120 horsepower, as that would cut down on speeding and unnecessary deaths. Why not ban alcohol as that would cut down on drunk driving.
Why own an AR-15 style rifle? Well why own anything that is not purely utilitarian; why own a car with 500 horsepower when 120hp is good enough. Why not ban all cars with more than 120 horsepower, as that would cut down on speeding and unnecessary deaths. Why not ban alcohol as that would cut down on drunk driving.
All the items you mention are restricted by licence, insurance, age, point of sale rules.
Purchasing an AR15 is a breeze compared to owning say a mustang Shelby GT350.
Same goes for infringing on a law abiding persons right to own a slave, I take care of my slave, I keep it locked up. I know how to handle my slave, I need my slave to protect my family. Why should my slave owning rights be infringed upon.
"Thanks Jim Jeffries"
Oh yea, they amended that amendment. Maybe we should bring the 2nd into the 21st Century by amending it.
Feb 19th 2018, 1:25 pm
#371
I have a comma problem
Joined: Feb 2009
Location: Fox Lake, IL (from Carrickfergus NI)
Posts: 49,598
Re: Florida shooting
Maybe for you. I didn't know anyone who drove drunk back home. Of course, half decent public transport and minicabs helped out greatly, never mind the fact that most of us could walk to our local, get bladdered and walk home.
Not sure what you're smoking but keep it away from me.
In fairness, NYer does appear to have first hand experience with mental illness, from what I've seen of him.
Not sure what you're smoking but keep it away from me.
In fairness, NYer does appear to have first hand experience with mental illness, from what I've seen of him.
Feb 19th 2018, 1:33 pm
#373
Stand-up Philosopher
Joined: Apr 2009
Location: Regina Saskatchewan
Posts: 16,344
Re: Florida shooting
There are people with balls and there are people with none. Sometimes it takes balls to change. For a gun owner to admit that the 99.9% is at fault for these tragedies because the weapons being used are the ones they defend their right to own takes balls.
https://globalnews.ca/news/4033425/m...hool-shooting/
https://globalnews.ca/news/4033425/m...hool-shooting/
Feb 19th 2018, 1:36 pm
#374
I have a comma problem
Joined: Feb 2009
Location: Fox Lake, IL (from Carrickfergus NI)
Posts: 49,598
Feb 19th 2018, 1:52 pm
#375
Yo
Joined: Nov 2012
Location: UK
Posts: 24,474
Re: Florida shooting
Ah yes, the myth of equal and unlimited opportunity.