RICH

Not me, yet! A coworker.

So I am wondering what others' experience is. This guy was with us a year as a temp and 18 months permanent. Whilst I don't keep track of the 15 folks in the office, he didn't strike me as a slacker, relative to the rest of us!

It's the first firing of a perm employee I've experienced. Is it "normal" in At Will States? Is it worth appealing?

scrubbedexpat091

Anywhere I have worked in 3 states (CA\AZ\IL) excessive sick calls or lates was something companies fired for.

Most would have warnings both verbal and written to shape up before resorting to firing though to give the employee a chance to improve.

RICH

Agreed, Apparently he had a written warning. but AFIAK his attendance was no worse than others.

I think I have particularly good attendance, but now, I am not so sure how it is measured!

tom169

Perhaps he also irritated the management by doing some other things, it was just that the attendance reasons were what was mentioned?

As for appealing, I wouldn't bother, unless it was for some other reason like nearly had a full pension (in a public job).

Pulaski

I agree with this. Even a minor discrepancy in worked hours is easy to document and "prove", whereas work errors, drug/alcohol issues, fraud/theft, etc. would be harder to prove, easier to challenge, and ultimately could cause significant reputational damage to the employer.

Asg123

So he probably won't be back. The real slackers, in my experience, come back and get paid for the months that they missed.

Guindalf

As someone who has tried to appeal a constructed firing and failed, it ain't easy!

...and I'm talking about a local government job!

It costs nothing to appeal, but I can guarantee the company will lie through its teeth to make sure it's you who looks bad. I didn't even manage to get a penny in unemployment!

The good news is that for the past month plus, I am working full-time from home as a technical adviser for a VERY large computer/phone/tablet/watch company that shall remain nameless. Took me almost exactly a year, but we survived!

Noorah101

I work for an engineering firm. Two employees have been written up/verbally advised because they were constantly late or absent. However, they both quit before they could get fired.

Rene

RICH

Is there an advantage in quitting vs fired? Is there unemployment benefit?($$) or just resume value?

dc koop

I was on probation for a year I when joined the city's water and power department as an apprentice lineman/splicer. During that time I could have been fired at will for any reason. A couple of times during that period I was sick with bad colds but I still dragged my butt to work. The particular manager I was under was a stickler for attendance. At the end of the probationary period I was given an A for attendance and asked/advised to join the IBEW which I did. We were allowed 10 days sick benefit a year but it would have been foolhardy for anyone on probation to have taken advantage of it.

md95065

To whom, exactly, is the person going to "appeal" and on what grounds? If this is an "at will" state and the person is not a member of a protected class and alleging discrimination on that basis there really isn't anything for them to do ...

Beaverstate

Unemployment requirements will depend on your states rules. As far as I know in most (or some?) states, fired with cause will hurt your chances for unemployment compensation. Out right quitting a job you could keep makes receiving unemployment nearly impossible.
Ideally it was designed for layoffs in economic hard times.

tom169

If fired for gross negligence it can render you ineligible for COBRA and so resigning would be beneficial.

SultanOfSwing

I think most employers in any country are going to have an issue with excessive, unexcused lateness or excessive (unexcused or otherwise) absenteeism. He probably had already received at least one verbal and one written warning along the way as well.

I doubt there'd be much point in an appeal. Magically producing a reason out of nowhere now when it wasn't presented at the time won't work. It sucks, but that's the way it is.

livinginnyc

Many above have raised some great points.

I think it also heavily relies on the employers industry and corporate culture.

From working in entertainment, lateness is simply unacceptable - on production days, if you're not at work at the desired call time. You F'ed up and are in deep doo doo. Unless you have an exceptionally good reason why. Someone crashed into my car at a T junction, phoned in and was still asked how close to call time I'd be...

I suspect other industries (i.e, tech start up) will be relaxed and others (finance) will be less-so. Obviously there is a breaking point for any company.

In larger organizations, I suspect it would be harder to argue a dismissal and/or disciplinary action as we live in a world of technology. Most companies that I've ever worked for have employee swipe cards and CCTV and are able and do log when you come in and when you leave.... so its easy for them to prove a pattern of being late, leaving early or going on lots of cigarette breaks (I don't smoke, but I know people who got called up for excessive smoking i.e, being off job/away from their work).