DACA etc.
Jan 19th 2018, 5:38 pm
#32
Lost in BE Cyberspace
Joined: Jan 2006
Location: San Francisco
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Jan 19th 2018, 6:55 pm
#34
WTF?
Joined: Aug 2003
Location: Homeostasis
Posts: 79,367
Re: DACA etc.
Let me be clear. Every bad thing that has ever happened was Trump's fault. Every bad thing that will ever happen will be Trump's fault.
We find this truth to be self evident.
FACT.
We find this truth to be self evident.
FACT.
Jan 19th 2018, 11:44 pm
#35
BE Forum Addict
Joined: Jan 2017
Posts: 2,900
Re: DACA etc.
Also, every bad thing predicted to happen that didn't, still happened and you are a denialist, or will still happen you just haven't given it enough time.
Jan 22nd 2018, 11:57 am
#36
BE Forum Addict
Joined: Nov 2011
Location: Was Virginia, now Yorkshire.
Posts: 2,333
Re: DACA etc.
So, yeah, all the Democrats fault that the Republican-controlled President, Congress and Senate can’t pass a budget. But POTUS is a great deal-maker, so it will all be right soon. (/sarcasm)
Jan 22nd 2018, 1:06 pm
#37
Account Closed
Joined: Mar 2004
Posts: 2
Re: DACA etc.
To pass a Budget requires 60% vote, GOP do not have that.
Jan 22nd 2018, 1:24 pm
#38
Joined: Aug 2003
Location: East Seaxe
Posts: 72,552
Re: DACA etc.
He listened to the White House answering maching message....
US shutdown: White House voicemail changed to blame Democrats - BBC News
It isn't really a partisan thing, as such. It's Trump. He has made it impossible to work with him, for a multitude of reasons, but in addition because of his unconstitutional and transparently ignorant and often bigotted remarks and policies, multiple conflicts of interest, and fundamental incompetence for the office,he is fast become the best present for the opposition anyone has had for a long time.
US shutdown: White House voicemail changed to blame Democrats - BBC News
It isn't really a partisan thing, as such. It's Trump. He has made it impossible to work with him, for a multitude of reasons, but in addition because of his unconstitutional and transparently ignorant and often bigotted remarks and policies, multiple conflicts of interest, and fundamental incompetence for the office,he is fast become the best present for the opposition anyone has had for a long time.
Jan 22nd 2018, 3:16 pm
#39
Lost in BE Cyberspace
Joined: Jan 2006
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Jan 22nd 2018, 3:35 pm
#40
Magnificently Withering
Joined: Jan 2007
Location: Oakville, ON
Posts: 6,891
Re: DACA etc.
It's Trump's fault, plain as the nose on your face. By most accounts, both House and Senate were heading happily towards a compromise that would have included sufficient provisions to keep everyone on side, until POTUS stuck his oar in and snarled the whole thing up, at the now infamous obscenity-laden immigration meeting last week (or was it two weeks ago now - time ceases to have its usual meaning in the clusterf**k that is the Trump White House).
If the President had not insisted on playing to the more lunatic fringes of his base, the deal would have been done, DACA would have quietly gone away as an issue (because, let's face it, nobody really cares about it, it's just being used as a dog whistle) and the Government could go on functioning while the Administration continues bumbling along in its dysfunctional way. But no, the Orange Cheeto has to screw up every deal, because he is monstrously incompetent. It would be funny if it weren't so sad.
If the President had not insisted on playing to the more lunatic fringes of his base, the deal would have been done, DACA would have quietly gone away as an issue (because, let's face it, nobody really cares about it, it's just being used as a dog whistle) and the Government could go on functioning while the Administration continues bumbling along in its dysfunctional way. But no, the Orange Cheeto has to screw up every deal, because he is monstrously incompetent. It would be funny if it weren't so sad.
Jan 22nd 2018, 7:20 pm
#41
Concierge
Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 46,391
Re: DACA etc.
If the President had not insisted on playing to the more lunatic fringes of his base, the deal would have been done, DACA would have quietly gone away as an issue (because, let's face it, nobody really cares about it, it's just being used as a dog whistle) and the Government could go on functioning while the Administration continues bumbling along in its dysfunctional way. But no, the Orange Cheeto has to screw up every deal, because he is monstrously incompetent. It would be funny if it weren't so sad.
FTR, from the wiki:
During the Ronald Reagan administration, there were three funding gaps leading to shutdowns lasting one day or less. A funding gap in 1990 during the George H. W. Bush administration caused a weekend shutdown. During the Bill Clinton administration, there were two full government shutdowns during 1995 and 1996 lasting 5 and 21 days respectively, based on disagreement on whether to cut government services, leading to furloughs and significant disruption. During the Barack Obama administration, a government shutdown occurred during October 1–16, 2013. The primary dispute was the Republicans' desire to delay or defund the Patient Protection and Affordable Care Act, known colloquially as Obamacare.[1] In 2018, under the Donald Trump administration, a shutdown began on January 20th at 12:00:01 AM (Saturday); essential services continue, but armed service personnel on duty, for example, would not be paid until the shutdown ends
Government shutdowns have the effect of disruption to government services and increased cost to the government due to lost labor. During the 2013 shutdown Standard & Poor's, the financial ratings agency, stated on October 16 that the shutdown had "to date taken $24 billion out of the economy," and "shaved at least 0.6 percent off annualized fourth-quarter 2013 GDP growth
Trump's presidency is not the first to see a shut down nor will it be the last.
Jan 22nd 2018, 7:33 pm
#42
Account Closed
Joined: Mar 2004
Posts: 2
Re: DACA etc.
Shut done is just a tool the Politicians use, they really do not care who gets hurt.
Jan 22nd 2018, 7:45 pm
#43
Magnificently Withering
Joined: Jan 2007
Location: Oakville, ON
Posts: 6,891
Re: DACA etc.
He used DACA as a tool. You live in Canada so you don't have to care about DACA. I care about DACA as an American who it affects.
FTR, from the wiki:
During the Ronald Reagan administration, there were three funding gaps leading to shutdowns lasting one day or less. A funding gap in 1990 during the George H. W. Bush administration caused a weekend shutdown. During the Bill Clinton administration, there were two full government shutdowns during 1995 and 1996 lasting 5 and 21 days respectively, based on disagreement on whether to cut government services, leading to furloughs and significant disruption. During the Barack Obama administration, a government shutdown occurred during October 1–16, 2013. The primary dispute was the Republicans' desire to delay or defund the Patient Protection and Affordable Care Act, known colloquially as Obamacare.[1] In 2018, under the Donald Trump administration, a shutdown began on January 20th at 12:00:01 AM (Saturday); essential services continue, but armed service personnel on duty, for example, would not be paid until the shutdown ends
Government shutdowns have the effect of disruption to government services and increased cost to the government due to lost labor. During the 2013 shutdown Standard & Poor's, the financial ratings agency, stated on October 16 that the shutdown had "to date taken $24 billion out of the economy," and "shaved at least 0.6 percent off annualized fourth-quarter 2013 GDP growth
Trump's presidency is not the first to see a shut down nor will it be the last.
FTR, from the wiki:
During the Ronald Reagan administration, there were three funding gaps leading to shutdowns lasting one day or less. A funding gap in 1990 during the George H. W. Bush administration caused a weekend shutdown. During the Bill Clinton administration, there were two full government shutdowns during 1995 and 1996 lasting 5 and 21 days respectively, based on disagreement on whether to cut government services, leading to furloughs and significant disruption. During the Barack Obama administration, a government shutdown occurred during October 1–16, 2013. The primary dispute was the Republicans' desire to delay or defund the Patient Protection and Affordable Care Act, known colloquially as Obamacare.[1] In 2018, under the Donald Trump administration, a shutdown began on January 20th at 12:00:01 AM (Saturday); essential services continue, but armed service personnel on duty, for example, would not be paid until the shutdown ends
Government shutdowns have the effect of disruption to government services and increased cost to the government due to lost labor. During the 2013 shutdown Standard & Poor's, the financial ratings agency, stated on October 16 that the shutdown had "to date taken $24 billion out of the economy," and "shaved at least 0.6 percent off annualized fourth-quarter 2013 GDP growth
Trump's presidency is not the first to see a shut down nor will it be the last.
Everybody else may have an opinion one way or the other, and in a dispassionate sense may care very deeply about DACA as a policy instrument, but the legislation - or lack thereof - is very obviously in this instance being used as a wedge issue to appeal to the Trump base (who want it all to be stopped and everyone deported because, you know, illegals...).
The President really ought to know - and if he doesn't know somebody should f'in well tell him - that US politics, and especially US budget politics, is always and has always been about bargaining. FFS, Trump is supposed to be this great dealmaker, but here he has royally screwed up a deal that would have been satisfactory to practically everyone, for the sake of appeasing a relatively small group of his supporters who by and large do not understand or care about the issues.
Oh, and on edit: I'm very well aware of previous government shutdowns. This remains, significantly, the very first time in US history that the government has shut down while one party holds the House, the Senate and the White House. That is a measure of how utterly dysfunctional Trump's administration is.
Last edited by Oakvillian; Jan 22nd 2018 at 7:48 pm.
Jan 22nd 2018, 8:12 pm
#44
Concierge
Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 46,391
Re: DACA etc.
Are you normally this obtuse? Of course, it affects me regardless of my status in the US. I've been a US Citizen from birth. Making illegals, legal, affects all people who live in the US legally, as well as those who want to come to the US illegal and wait for another bleeding heart liberal to make them legal.
My husband is a Canadian, served 36 years in the RCAF and came to the US legally 20 years ago and holds US citizenship. I consider him far from cynical and, believe it or not, he is a strong supporter of President Trump.
My husband is a Canadian, served 36 years in the RCAF and came to the US legally 20 years ago and holds US citizenship. I consider him far from cynical and, believe it or not, he is a strong supporter of President Trump.
Jan 22nd 2018, 8:24 pm
#45
Lost in BE Cyberspace
Joined: Jan 2006
Location: San Francisco
Posts: 12,865
Re: DACA etc.
Are you normally this obtuse? Of course, it affects me regardless of my status in the US. I've been a US Citizen from birth. Making illegals, legal, affects all people who live in the US legally, as well as those who want to come to the US illegal and wait for another bleeding heart liberal to make them legal.